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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should get extra time. It is just a scam for the wealthy to push their kids above the others.

In real life you don't get extra time.

Really? My kid with ADHD got 1030 on the PSAT with a 504. Is this a score of a scam??

Our friend’s son got a 1550 with extra time and the kid was thrilled, as was the mom. She directly said it was a boatload of work for the accommodations and now that they got them, the kid stopped all meds and all therapy. Kid posted about it on Instagram. So just bc your kid didn’t benefit from it, doesn’t mean others don’t and 100% people scam the system.

Do you even hear yourself?

"Load kids up on drugs and therapy, instead of of giving them... a few minutes to think".

Really??!!

DP.

I think the drugs and the therapy was part of the scam.
They had to do it to make the diagnosis look real.

This. I am that poster. The mom - a physician - said, “don’t hate the player.” She said she know they have cracked down after Operation University Blues. The day the SAT results were released, she texted and said they can drop the “charade.”

So, no one was thinking it was extra time OR drugs. It was do what is necessary to get extra time (drugs, therapy) and then drop the charade. The kid also posted on Instagram the day after the SAT results came out and said he doesn’t have ADHD after all and is now med free. I saw the post.

There were several families in the Varsity Blues cohort that faked the process for recruited athletes. The logic that many are applying in this thread is that all recruited athletes must be cheats since there are some bad apples who faked their records with a corrupt consultant who went to jail. It is nuts.

You are all focused on the wrong problem. We need to fix the process for assessing learning disabilities in school. There are available tools to quantify and measure learning disabilities, but the only available path in our broken education system is expensive private testing. That is why there are economic disparities. Most families can't drop thousands of dollars for private testing. If schools handled this assessment process for all students, it would ensure adequate support in classrooms and reduce the risk for corrupt behaviors for securing accommodations.

No one on DCUM cares that an untold number of kids are slipping through the cracks. They are just angry and fearful that their own snowflake is potentially disadvantaged.

This is 100% accurate. Our DD was sent for testing in 2nd grade because her teacher noticed that she was struggling and following behind. She was diagnosed with a visual disability, ADHD, and low processing speed. As testing has to be updated, we've spent almost 15K on testing over the years. It was not to scam the system, but to ensure our DD had a fair shake at getting an education. As her 2nd grade teacher said, it would be easy to write her off and pass her along as a nice little girl who was just a bit dull. Yes, she got extra time along with other accommodations, but it made a huge difference in her ability to succeed because her visual issue and processing speed meant she needed those few extra minutes.

Isn't this what we used to call a bit dull?

Is being slow a learning disability that we correct for now?

Yes, it is as her IQ was above average, but processing is slow. Visual disability has nothing to do with intelligence. I understand your frustration but will not apologize for getting my daughter the services she needs to maximize her potential and learn how to navigate her disability. She graduated from college with honors, had amazing internships with glowing reviews, and is now in law school where she hopes to one day serve as an advocate for others with disabilities. PP, I don't understand why you are so worked up that neurodiverse kids are supported to become productive adults. I understand your frustration if people are gaming the system. But to insinuate that I should have thrown up my hands and said "Well, she's just not very smart and has bad eyes" is really mean-spirited. If your child is neurotypical, you should be grateful.

I’m glad she got the actual learning support she needed- that’s appropriate. What I continue to find inappropriate is the denial that processing speed actually is a legitimate measurement of academic ability. Trying to remove processing speed as a variable from all standardized testing is basically saying you cannot test it.

How do you account for kids that are slower processors but very deep thinkers? Her GAI is in the genius range but excludes processing speed because of the deviation of the score. Trust me, she is not at all dull. She is so bright and comes up with the most creative solutions and ideas. It just takes a while.

That’s for the colleges to answer. It should show in her essays, grades and recommendations. The whole point of standardized tests is to measure a specific type of intelligence.

The point (that you missed) was that the poster said slow processors were “dull.” How does that poster square his or her ignorant opinion with the existence of slow but very deep thinkers (geniuses). Most of life is not a timed test. As a prof, I’d rather have the deep thinker.

So you should have no issue with the school knowing a child’s full profile - slow but “deep” thinker.

Anonymous wrote:This extra time drama is blown out of proportion just like the belief that DEI students are getting in over elites (check out private school "going to college" threads). My kid was given extra time due to ADHD. He took the SAT once without it, got like a 1270. Took it 3 months later with the extra time (which he did not want- we forced him) and got a 1270. Yes, the exact score and exact on both sections.

Took it again 6 months later after doing a study book. It was the in school one, no extra time, and got a 1480. He said he much preferred regular time and also wont use extra time for any APs. If your kid does not know how to do the problem, staring at it another minute is not going to fix that. It actually really annoyed our child to have long delays between sections. You have to wait for the "extra time" to expire before moving on.

you’re making a really good point against accomodations. It’s not even clear that they help many kids. it’s just thrown in automatically with most IEPs instead of seeing if the kid needs it, and (worse) if the kid can be taught to do without it. This kind of thinking allows expectations to be lowered for some kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should get extra time. It is just a scam for the wealthy to push their kids above the others.

In real life you don't get extra time.

Really? My kid with ADHD got 1030 on the PSAT with a 504. Is this a score of a scam??

Our friend’s son got a 1550 with extra time and the kid was thrilled, as was the mom. She directly said it was a boatload of work for the accommodations and now that they got them, the kid stopped all meds and all therapy. Kid posted about it on Instagram. So just bc your kid didn’t benefit from it, doesn’t mean others don’t and 100% people scam the system.

Do you even hear yourself?

"Load kids up on drugs and therapy, instead of of giving them... a few minutes to think".

Really??!!

DP.

I think the drugs and the therapy was part of the scam.
They had to do it to make the diagnosis look real.

This. I am that poster. The mom - a physician - said, “don’t hate the player.” She said she know they have cracked down after Operation University Blues. The day the SAT results were released, she texted and said they can drop the “charade.”

So, no one was thinking it was extra time OR drugs. It was do what is necessary to get extra time (drugs, therapy) and then drop the charade. The kid also posted on Instagram the day after the SAT results came out and said he doesn’t have ADHD after all and is now med free. I saw the post.

There were several families in the Varsity Blues cohort that faked the process for recruited athletes. The logic that many are applying in this thread is that all recruited athletes must be cheats since there are some bad apples who faked their records with a corrupt consultant who went to jail. It is nuts.

You are all focused on the wrong problem. We need to fix the process for assessing learning disabilities in school. There are available tools to quantify and measure learning disabilities, but the only available path in our broken education system is expensive private testing. That is why there are economic disparities. Most families can't drop thousands of dollars for private testing. If schools handled this assessment process for all students, it would ensure adequate support in classrooms and reduce the risk for corrupt behaviors for securing accommodations.

No one on DCUM cares that an untold number of kids are slipping through the cracks. They are just angry and fearful that their own snowflake is potentially disadvantaged.

This is 100% accurate. Our DD was sent for testing in 2nd grade because her teacher noticed that she was struggling and following behind. She was diagnosed with a visual disability, ADHD, and low processing speed. As testing has to be updated, we've spent almost 15K on testing over the years. It was not to scam the system, but to ensure our DD had a fair shake at getting an education. As her 2nd grade teacher said, it would be easy to write her off and pass her along as a nice little girl who was just a bit dull. Yes, she got extra time along with other accommodations, but it made a huge difference in her ability to succeed because her visual issue and processing speed meant she needed those few extra minutes.

Isn't this what we used to call a bit dull?

Is being slow a learning disability that we correct for now?

Yes, it is as her IQ was above average, but processing is slow. Visual disability has nothing to do with intelligence. I understand your frustration but will not apologize for getting my daughter the services she needs to maximize her potential and learn how to navigate her disability. She graduated from college with honors, had amazing internships with glowing reviews, and is now in law school where she hopes to one day serve as an advocate for others with disabilities. PP, I don't understand why you are so worked up that neurodiverse kids are supported to become productive adults. I understand your frustration if people are gaming the system. But to insinuate that I should have thrown up my hands and said "Well, she's just not very smart and has bad eyes" is really mean-spirited. If your child is neurotypical, you should be grateful.

I’m glad she got the actual learning support she needed- that’s appropriate. What I continue to find inappropriate is the denial that processing speed actually is a legitimate measurement of academic ability. Trying to remove processing speed as a variable from all standardized testing is basically saying you cannot test it.

How do you account for kids that are slower processors but very deep thinkers? Her GAI is in the genius range but excludes processing speed because of the deviation of the score. Trust me, she is not at all dull. She is so bright and comes up with the most creative solutions and ideas. It just takes a while.

That’s for the colleges to answer. It should show in her essays, grades and recommendations. The whole point of standardized tests is to measure a specific type of intelligence.

The point (that you missed) was that the poster said slow processors were “dull.” How does that poster square his or her ignorant opinion with the existence of slow but very deep thinkers (geniuses). Most of life is not a timed test. As a prof, I’d rather have the deep thinker.

Anonymous wrote:Our DS was born at 26 weeks gestation, NICU stay for three months, extensive speech, OT and PT throughout childhood. Processing speed at 1% but above average IQ. This is not a fact pattern I'd wish on anyone. But he survived and is capable in many academic areas. Don't worry, he won't be taking anyone's spot at Harvard, but extended time makes all the difference in being able to show what he knows in his classes.

That’s great. But some tests are also supposed to measure how fast a child thinks, not just what they know. (my kid also has significant processing speed issues.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should get extra time. It is just a scam for the wealthy to push their kids above the others.

In real life you don't get extra time.

Really? My kid with ADHD got 1030 on the PSAT with a 504. Is this a score of a scam??

Our friend’s son got a 1550 with extra time and the kid was thrilled, as was the mom. She directly said it was a boatload of work for the accommodations and now that they got them, the kid stopped all meds and all therapy. Kid posted about it on Instagram. So just bc your kid didn’t benefit from it, doesn’t mean others don’t and 100% people scam the system.

Do you even hear yourself?

"Load kids up on drugs and therapy, instead of of giving them... a few minutes to think".

Really??!!

DP.

I think the drugs and the therapy was part of the scam.
They had to do it to make the diagnosis look real.

This. I am that poster. The mom - a physician - said, “don’t hate the player.” She said she know they have cracked down after Operation University Blues. The day the SAT results were released, she texted and said they can drop the “charade.”

So, no one was thinking it was extra time OR drugs. It was do what is necessary to get extra time (drugs, therapy) and then drop the charade. The kid also posted on Instagram the day after the SAT results came out and said he doesn’t have ADHD after all and is now med free. I saw the post.

There were several families in the Varsity Blues cohort that faked the process for recruited athletes. The logic that many are applying in this thread is that all recruited athletes must be cheats since there are some bad apples who faked their records with a corrupt consultant who went to jail. It is nuts.

You are all focused on the wrong problem. We need to fix the process for assessing learning disabilities in school. There are available tools to quantify and measure learning disabilities, but the only available path in our broken education system is expensive private testing. That is why there are economic disparities. Most families can't drop thousands of dollars for private testing. If schools handled this assessment process for all students, it would ensure adequate support in classrooms and reduce the risk for corrupt behaviors for securing accommodations.

No one on DCUM cares that an untold number of kids are slipping through the cracks. They are just angry and fearful that their own snowflake is potentially disadvantaged.

This is 100% accurate. Our DD was sent for testing in 2nd grade because her teacher noticed that she was struggling and following behind. She was diagnosed with a visual disability, ADHD, and low processing speed. As testing has to be updated, we've spent almost 15K on testing over the years. It was not to scam the system, but to ensure our DD had a fair shake at getting an education. As her 2nd grade teacher said, it would be easy to write her off and pass her along as a nice little girl who was just a bit dull. Yes, she got extra time along with other accommodations, but it made a huge difference in her ability to succeed because her visual issue and processing speed meant she needed those few extra minutes.

Isn't this what we used to call a bit dull?

Is being slow a learning disability that we correct for now?

Yes, it is as her IQ was above average, but processing is slow. Visual disability has nothing to do with intelligence. I understand your frustration but will not apologize for getting my daughter the services she needs to maximize her potential and learn how to navigate her disability. She graduated from college with honors, had amazing internships with glowing reviews, and is now in law school where she hopes to one day serve as an advocate for others with disabilities. PP, I don't understand why you are so worked up that neurodiverse kids are supported to become productive adults. I understand your frustration if people are gaming the system. But to insinuate that I should have thrown up my hands and said "Well, she's just not very smart and has bad eyes" is really mean-spirited. If your child is neurotypical, you should be grateful.

I’m glad she got the actual learning support she needed- that’s appropriate. What I continue to find inappropriate is the denial that processing speed actually is a legitimate measurement of academic ability. Trying to remove processing speed as a variable from all standardized testing is basically saying you cannot test it.

How do you account for kids that are slower processors but very deep thinkers? Her GAI is in the genius range but excludes processing speed because of the deviation of the score. Trust me, she is not at all dull. She is so bright and comes up with the most creative solutions and ideas. It just takes a while.

That’s for the colleges to answer. It should show in her essays, grades and recommendations. The whole point of standardized tests is to measure a specific type of intelligence.

The entire system needs to be burned down. It is just nuts - at this point they should give all kids extra time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should get extra time. It is just a scam for the wealthy to push their kids above the others.

In real life you don't get extra time.

at work, I give extra time all the time.

same. And in life, I am not having to do calculus equations to get a raise.

So much paranoia. Yes some game the system. But the most part, no amount of extra time will change that whether your kid knows the stuff or not.

One of my kids got extra time, and I’d be fine if everyone got it. I’m not looking for an advantage, just for my kid to be able to show what they actually do know.

Anonymous wrote:This extra time drama is blown out of proportion just like the belief that DEI students are getting in over elites (check out private school "going to college" threads). My kid was given extra time due to ADHD. He took the SAT once without it, got like a 1270. Took it 3 months later with the extra time (which he did not want- we forced him) and got a 1270. Yes, the exact score and exact on both sections.

Took it again 6 months later after doing a study book. It was the in school one, no extra time, and got a 1480. He said he much preferred regular time and also wont use extra time for any APs. If your kid does not know how to do the problem, staring at it another minute is not going to fix that. It actually really annoyed our child to have long delays between sections. You have to wait for the "extra time" to expire before moving on.

Just bc your kid may or may not have needed extra time doesn’t mean that others aren’t exploiting this allowance.

This extra time drama is blown out of proportion just like the belief that DEI students are getting in over elites (check out private school "going to college" threads). My kid was given extra time due to ADHD. He took the SAT once without it, got like a 1270. Took it 3 months later with the extra time (which he did not want- we forced him) and got a 1270. Yes, the exact score and exact on both sections.

Took it again 6 months later after doing a study book. It was the in school one, no extra time, and got a 1480. He said he much preferred regular time and also wont use extra time for any APs. If your kid does not know how to do the problem, staring at it another minute is not going to fix that. It actually really annoyed our child to have long delays between sections. You have to wait for the "extra time" to expire before moving on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should get extra time. It is just a scam for the wealthy to push their kids above the others.

In real life you don't get extra time.

Really? My kid with ADHD got 1030 on the PSAT with a 504. Is this a score of a scam??

Our friend’s son got a 1550 with extra time and the kid was thrilled, as was the mom. She directly said it was a boatload of work for the accommodations and now that they got them, the kid stopped all meds and all therapy. Kid posted about it on Instagram. So just bc your kid didn’t benefit from it, doesn’t mean others don’t and 100% people scam the system.

Do you even hear yourself?

"Load kids up on drugs and therapy, instead of of giving them... a few minutes to think".

Really??!!

DP.

I think the drugs and the therapy was part of the scam.
They had to do it to make the diagnosis look real.

This. I am that poster. The mom - a physician - said, “don’t hate the player.” She said she know they have cracked down after Operation University Blues. The day the SAT results were released, she texted and said they can drop the “charade.”

So, no one was thinking it was extra time OR drugs. It was do what is necessary to get extra time (drugs, therapy) and then drop the charade. The kid also posted on Instagram the day after the SAT results came out and said he doesn’t have ADHD after all and is now med free. I saw the post.

There were several families in the Varsity Blues cohort that faked the process for recruited athletes. The logic that many are applying in this thread is that all recruited athletes must be cheats since there are some bad apples who faked their records with a corrupt consultant who went to jail. It is nuts.

You are all focused on the wrong problem. We need to fix the process for assessing learning disabilities in school. There are available tools to quantify and measure learning disabilities, but the only available path in our broken education system is expensive private testing. That is why there are economic disparities. Most families can't drop thousands of dollars for private testing. If schools handled this assessment process for all students, it would ensure adequate support in classrooms and reduce the risk for corrupt behaviors for securing accommodations.

No one on DCUM cares that an untold number of kids are slipping through the cracks. They are just angry and fearful that their own snowflake is potentially disadvantaged.

This is 100% accurate. Our DD was sent for testing in 2nd grade because her teacher noticed that she was struggling and following behind. She was diagnosed with a visual disability, ADHD, and low processing speed. As testing has to be updated, we've spent almost 15K on testing over the years. It was not to scam the system, but to ensure our DD had a fair shake at getting an education. As her 2nd grade teacher said, it would be easy to write her off and pass her along as a nice little girl who was just a bit dull. Yes, she got extra time along with other accommodations, but it made a huge difference in her ability to succeed because her visual issue and processing speed meant she needed those few extra minutes.

Isn't this what we used to call a bit dull?

Is being slow a learning disability that we correct for now?

Not cool.

Our DS was born at 26 weeks gestation, NICU stay for three months, extensive speech, OT and PT throughout childhood. Processing speed at 1% but above average IQ. This is not a fact pattern I'd wish on anyone. But he survived and is capable in many academic areas. Don't worry, he won't be taking anyone's spot at Harvard, but extended time makes all the difference in being able to show what he knows in his classes.

Anonymous wrote:First time I ever saw testing accommodations was in law school, 20 years ago. Another student, nothing special, got all the time in the world to do the exams. No rush. Where I'm writing left handed as fast as I could, cramping, trying my damnedest to get something in on time. I was an LSAT taker who after practicing for a few weeks, realized that I would have to focus on getting answers right rather than answering every question. It hurt and yet it was the only way I could get a good enough score. (I did well, but if I had an extra 15 minutes per section...!)

And here a year later was a kid who got all day to do his test. I didn't understand it. Then it dawned on me that these fancy expensive people always figure out a way to get themselves a win. They never really have to play by the rules. Slow? No need to skip questions or grind it out; the accommodation will fix that for you.

I don't want to denigrate the disabled. But I only saw a need for accommodations during my time among the elites. One more reason to be annoyed at them.

I also discovered this during law school. Previously I had not encountered high achievers who were not obviously just sharper and smarter than everyone else. When I was in college, the people with the best grades and highest test scores were the smartest people.

But in law school I learned that a lot of people game the system. Buying stimulants illegally or getting a doctor friend to write them a scrip for ADHD meds, knowing the system well enough to get extra time in exams, recorded lectures, or even have other students take notes for them. I know a woman who claimed carpal tunnel so that the school had to provide her with a "note taker" for all her classes -- so she was able to get a set of lecture notes AND class outlines from another student for every law school class. If you've been to law school, you understand that sitting through lectures and taking notes and then building your outlines before exams is a significant part of the work of law school. Grades are based almost entirely on final exams and exams are written based on classroom lectures and discussion, so having someone else do the work of distilling lectures down for you is a big advantage.

But whatever. I actually learned stuff by listening to classroom lectures, taking my own notes, creating my own outlines. I still remember a lot of that stuff now. I don't have ADHD and have never taken stimulants and don't really want to -- it seems like an unhealthy approach to life if you don't actually need that medication. I have a nice life and a good career and I don't think gaming the system would have gotten me anything better even if it would have made some things easier at the time. In the end I don't really understand what the point of all that is. If law school is too hard for you, just don't go. There are other careers. People are weird and status obsessed though.

Anonymous wrote:For equity give all kids an extra 30 minutes.

The students that need extra time to complete the task probably need to be at community colleges.

100% untrue on your community college bias.