Anonymous wrote:If you know the answer, why does it matter how fast you can write it down? How often does anyone in the real world even use a pencil anymore? Who has a job that requires perfectly filling in little circles with a No.2 pencil?

Why do they still have to fill in the g-dmnd little circles in a timed setting?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

The key here is that the world exists beyond college. So I would argue by not mowing down obstacles you have actually created a kids who will have learned to keep going even if they're not winning, to work harder than the next guy and advocate for what they want. My guess is at their 20th reunion, they will be far more successful than all those kids with accommodations who never learned to maneuver around and through problems.

Your generalizations and ignorance about disabilities is getting in your way. This maneuvering around a disability is a myth. Most kids with disabilities who are not helped, accommodated etc hate school by early elementary. To any parents with kids who are struggling at school, always keep your focus on never allowing any teacher, school, other students to make your kid hate school. Kids with disabilities with no support often stop trying and decide they are stupid. It's a waste of a valuable person to society to allow this. Kids with disabilities can't usually just gut it out. They often end up unemployed or in jail. This is why IDEA exists. The accommodations are a way of leveling the playing field so they can benefit from education like neurotypical kids.

I would like for the person who suggests that kids with disabilities should just "mow down obstacles" to volunteer his/her kids for "last place" in every race, every test, every measure of ability, for their entire educational career--do it without support or appropriate accommodation, knowing that dyslexia, ADHD, language disorders, dyscalculia, not intelligence, is what is holding them back. Tell them that failure has made them stronger and better.

Last place? You act so enlightened, but you still view learning as a competition?

Honestly, this is the problem right here, folks. This pp doesn’t care about her dc learning. Only about what place dc gets. It’s no wonder you want extra time so badly.

Anonymous wrote:Here's a solution for timed tests:

Offer a choice - a timed or untimed test. Each child can decide which to take and which one will give them the best advantage. Like choosing between the ACT and SAT, let the kids decide which will give them the best relative scores. Then colleges can look at those test relative to the others that are timed or untimed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard to know how many are gaming the system because there is no uniform requirement for testing--at least not that I am aware. My DS did what is considered "the gold standard" a neuropych. test, full language test, and it included IQ and achievement testing. He was re-evaluated 2.5 years later, and will be re-evaluated again prior to high school.
We use accommodations that we feel are the least extreme- in his case, he tests in a less distracting environment. We don't use additional time because, while it would raise his writing scores (he has ADHD and a speech and language impairment), he's managed well without it.
Here is what happens OP (someone mentioned this earlier)-- exceptionally bright kids (mine has an IQ in the mid 140s) mask learning disabilities until high school- at that time, the volume and complexity of work exceeds their ability to compensate. What this means, is that many of these kids (mine included) can work at a higher level than 99% of the population if they are given more time. That is not the same as gaming the system. Everyone does better with more time but the kids with learning issues may jump massive percentage points with even a little more time.
Case in point, my DS's teacher accidentally gave him extra time on the language portion of his ERB a few years ago. His score went from the 7th stanine in independent schools to the 9th stanine, 99th percentile with just 15 or so extra minutes. While there are typical, smart kids who might raise their scores slightly or even by a lot, I will bet that you likely wouldn't see such a dramatic change in comprehension. That's how "real" learning issues work--my DS's scores in language abilities look above average on a standardized test without extended time- but they are not. He was reading Orwell in the 5th grade, winning word masters contests for his entire school, writing poetry, etc.

My kid’s score would jump to 800 on the math portion if he had extra time also. He just didn’t have time to go through all the questions and got a 760. He knew the material.

Congratulations. Please feel comforted that my DC was rejected from almost every school (and only one reach) with a 35 ACT and a lifetime of pretty cool achievements. I hope my child's failure to secure admissions makes you feel vindicated and superior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Thanks for putting some stats on this, but I disagree with your conclusion. "certain communities" have giant percentages of kids with testing accomodations, far out of proportion to any expected natural rate of disabilities. The college bribery scandal very much shows that parents are willing to game the system in this way, albeit they don't all have $1mil for actual bribes.

Exactly. As the article puts it "As a school lawyer, I’ve witnessed the growing pressures schools face to provide extended time to more students, especially in affluent communities. Distribution of accommodations for wealthy and poor students is not equitable. Decisions often come down to parents’ advocacy—not intrinsic student attributes. What a flawed gatekeeper the College Board has hired."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Thanks for putting some stats on this, but I disagree with your conclusion. "certain communities" have giant percentages of kids with testing accomodations, far out of proportion to any expected natural rate of disabilities. The college bribery scandal very much shows that parents are willing to game the system in this way, albeit they don't all have $1mil for actual bribes.

Exactly. As the article puts it "As a school lawyer, I’ve witnessed the growing pressures schools face to provide extended time to more students, especially in affluent communities. Distribution of accommodations for wealthy and poor students is not equitable. Decisions often come down to parents’ advocacy—not intrinsic student attributes. What a flawed gatekeeper the College Board has hired."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Thanks for putting some stats on this, but I disagree with your conclusion. "certain communities" have giant percentages of kids with testing accomodations, far out of proportion to any expected natural rate of disabilities. The college bribery scandal very much shows that parents are willing to game the system in this way, albeit they don't all have $1mil for actual bribes.

I'm the Pp you're responding to, and that's a fair point.

It seems a better, more equitable solution is for College Board and ACT to give extra scrutiny to accommodation requests from students in those regions -- rather than toss out all accommodations?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Thanks for putting some stats on this, but I disagree with your conclusion. "certain communities" have giant percentages of kids with testing accomodations, far out of proportion to any expected natural rate of disabilities. The college bribery scandal very much shows that parents are willing to game the system in this way, albeit they don't all have $1mil for actual bribes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Thanks for putting some stats on this, but I disagree with your conclusion. "certain communities" have giant percentages of kids with testing accomodations, far out of proportion to any expected natural rate of disabilities. The college bribery scandal very much shows that parents are willing to game the system in this way, albeit they don't all have $1mil for actual bribes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 cents -- my child has a fine motor delay among other issues, and we've specifically asked for him NOT to get extra testing time in his IEP because we think he should learn to compensate, and we don't want him to think of himself as disabled or not having to work hard. He's still very young, but I think it's good for him to realize his weaknesses and learn to compensate, because the real world will not accomodate him.

You are doing a disservice to your child and you clearly don't understand your child's disabilities. I see this all the time on sn forums where a parent with a newly diagnosed child comes and the first thing they are concerned about is the child uses the label to be lazy or to not be accountable for behavoir issues. You are, in effect, punishing your child for their disability. If your kid's writing is slow and laborious, your child is going to miss instruction because child has to use more of the brain just to take notes. You need to educate yourself. Your sanctimonious post is all about you, not what is good for your child.

ffs. I let my kid get whatever accommodations he needs in class, to actually learn. when it comes to testing, however, he's going to test without accommodations. because I care more about his learning, and less about his grades. he's a smart kid and will end up where he belongs. your issue is that you care too much about standardized tests.

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.