Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it's true that the HFA class is truly H level, and kids who wouldn't have failed physics will fail HFA physics, let's discuss that tragedy. Students need to be taught at their level. How can a huge high school like Wilson simply decide to teach Honors Physics and generously allow non-honors level students to sit in and likely fail? How do we not all agree that the students would be best served by having the options of physics or honors physics?

The reality is that we have no idea whether HFA will be dumbed down and fail to meet the honors students needs or whether it will be kept at honors level and fail average students who would have succeeded in a normal class. But either outcome seems completely unsatisfactory.

Yeah. I get how HFA is intended to avoid an imperfect system of channeling people to the best class, but it creates collateral damage at both the top and the bottom. Why is that okay?

It seems the best thing to do would be to improve the process for tiering — which there are ways to do — rather than throw the baby out with the bath water.

liberals and other SJW consider tiering aka tracking to be racist. Welcome to the future

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it's true that the HFA class is truly H level, and kids who wouldn't have failed physics will fail HFA physics, let's discuss that tragedy. Students need to be taught at their level. How can a huge high school like Wilson simply decide to teach Honors Physics and generously allow non-honors level students to sit in and likely fail? How do we not all agree that the students would be best served by having the options of physics or honors physics?

The reality is that we have no idea whether HFA will be dumbed down and fail to meet the honors students needs or whether it will be kept at honors level and fail average students who would have succeeded in a normal class. But either outcome seems completely unsatisfactory.

Yeah. I get how HFA is intended to avoid an imperfect system of channeling people to the best class, but it creates collateral damage at both the top and the bottom. Why is that okay?

It seems the best thing to do would be to improve the process for tiering — which there are ways to do — rather than throw the baby out with the bath water.

liberals and other SJW consider tiering aka tracking to be racist. Welcome to the future

Anonymous wrote:If it's true that the HFA class is truly H level, and kids who wouldn't have failed physics will fail HFA physics, let's discuss that tragedy. Students need to be taught at their level. How can a huge high school like Wilson simply decide to teach Honors Physics and generously allow non-honors level students to sit in and likely fail? How do we not all agree that the students would be best served by having the options of physics or honors physics?

The reality is that we have no idea whether HFA will be dumbed down and fail to meet the honors students needs or whether it will be kept at honors level and fail average students who would have succeeded in a normal class. But either outcome seems completely unsatisfactory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it's true that the HFA class is truly H level, and kids who wouldn't have failed physics will fail HFA physics, let's discuss that tragedy. Students need to be taught at their level. How can a huge high school like Wilson simply decide to teach Honors Physics and generously allow non-honors level students to sit in and likely fail? How do we not all agree that the students would be best served by having the options of physics or honors physics?

The reality is that we have no idea whether HFA will be dumbed down and fail to meet the honors students needs or whether it will be kept at honors level and fail average students who would have succeeded in a normal class. But either outcome seems completely unsatisfactory.

Yeah. I get how HFA is intended to avoid an imperfect system of channeling people to the best class, but it creates collateral damage at both the top and the bottom. Why is that okay?

It seems the best thing to do would be to improve the process for tiering — which there are ways to do — rather than throw the baby out with the bath water.

liberals and other SJW consider tiering aka tracking to be racist. Welcome to the future

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it's true that the HFA class is truly H level, and kids who wouldn't have failed physics will fail HFA physics, let's discuss that tragedy. Students need to be taught at their level. How can a huge high school like Wilson simply decide to teach Honors Physics and generously allow non-honors level students to sit in and likely fail? How do we not all agree that the students would be best served by having the options of physics or honors physics?

The reality is that we have no idea whether HFA will be dumbed down and fail to meet the honors students needs or whether it will be kept at honors level and fail average students who would have succeeded in a normal class. But either outcome seems completely unsatisfactory.

Yeah. I get how HFA is intended to avoid an imperfect system of channeling people to the best class, but it creates collateral damage at both the top and the bottom. Why is that okay?

It seems the best thing to do would be to improve the process for tiering — which there are ways to do — rather than throw the baby out with the bath water.

Anonymous wrote:If it's true that the HFA class is truly H level, and kids who wouldn't have failed physics will fail HFA physics, let's discuss that tragedy. Students need to be taught at their level. How can a huge high school like Wilson simply decide to teach Honors Physics and generously allow non-honors level students to sit in and likely fail? How do we not all agree that the students would be best served by having the options of physics or honors physics?

The reality is that we have no idea whether HFA will be dumbed down and fail to meet the honors students needs or whether it will be kept at honors level and fail average students who would have succeeded in a normal class. But either outcome seems completely unsatisfactory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

Please identify yourself. You are very invested in selling your narrative that I think you must be an insider. If so, why not say who you are to give credence to what you are saying? Otherwise, you just have an opinion like everyone else commenting here.

Shame, but I am certain you won't do so.

I'm the parent of a Wilson junior. I'm involved with sports stuff but not much with academic stuff (beyond going to parent meetings, back to school night and conferences). In addition to what you quoted, I also posted the FAQ.

I have zero knowledge based on being an "insider" (SMH). I read the FAQ, I read the school newsletters (which are terribly written and kind of looney), and that's where I get my information --- all public sources equally available to everyone on DCUM.

I have grave doubts about HFA (I posted about my kid being distracted in an AP class this year because all but a few kids are not engaged and about a kid I know having to leave Wilson due to failing honors biology).

I posted what you quoted above because I think it's silly for parents to invent crises ("the content is being dumbed down, oh the horror!") without spending ten seconds on Google to find easily located public information about what's really happening. The school has stated repeatedly that the content of honors classes is not being dumbed down (the FAQ says that explicitly, except it says "dummied down" and gives an example of one metric used to make sure this is the case -- lexile scores). Why are so many parents so invested in insisting on no evidence whatsoever that this is untrue? Or maybe they have some inside information I don't?

To above poster, see the reply below. You adamantly say it won’t be dumb down because why? Because the admin at Wilson says so? Their word is the be all you say? Just like DCPS has promised things bit don’t deliver? There is ideology and there is reality. You have no concrete proof the rigor will be less.

“Disagree. The honors classes at her school are more rigorous because there are hard expectations and standards of what the class will cover and the students who were there could do the work. So let’s just read in between the lines of this poster and say it for what it is. Wilson is eliminating regular classes which is the lowest level and putting everyone who are not in the AP classes into this HFA classes. Admin is asserting the curriculum and content will be the same rigor. I call that BS. The teachers will attempt it but won’t work with throwing kids who should be in the regular class into the honors class. Because we know DCPS won’t fail those kids who can’t keep up. So there will be grade inflation or the rigor of the course won’t be taught at the level it should. This is how it’s going to play out.”

You have no concrete proof the rigor will be less.

I think you meant "that the rigor will be the same. " Parents on this thread are asserting something with no evidence. That assertion is directly contradicted by policy statements from people who actually work with this day to day, with a concrete example of a sample metric used to ensure that what they are saying is true. I choose to believe the policy absent any evidence to the contrary. It's not up to me to come up with concrete proof to disprove your baseless assertions.

So let’s just read in between the lines of this poster

No thanks, I choose to take things at face value.

Because we know DCPS won’t fail those kids who can’t keep up.

I believe a previous poster posted a link to evidence that grades have gone way down. As I've said several times, one of my reservations with HFA is that a kid I know who DID fail, and I think that's too bad -- he could have passed an on level class.

So there will be grade inflation or the rigor of the course won’t be taught at the level it should. This is how it’s going to play out.

This kind of conspiracy theorizing and predicting the future is not convincing to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

I’d be happy to have my kid in PP’s kid’s class. I’ve got an scarily smart child, and I expect DCPS to meet his need for challenge and acceleration, the same as all students’ needs should be met.

NP. I'm confident that my averagely smart kid will be fine. I'm comfortable that there are other kids at Wilson that need more help that my kid -- I coach some of those kids, and I see a little of what they have to contend with, so that informs my priorities. I get that you may feel differently, and that's your right. But frankly I get prioritizing other kids in some ways. Given that my kid has been able to take all the AP classes he wanted since sophomore year, came into school with a year of credits from accelerated work in middle school and can take mostly college courses next year, I think he'll be fine.

The kids who are in AP will be fine. That’s obvious because the AP classes are the highest and still offered. That takes care of what 20% of the kids or however many. Then say the remaining majority, 80% will be all clustered together regardless of academic abilities - ranging from being 1 above grade level to grade level to 2 and 3 below grade level. Sure the rigor if the course will be the same and the teacher will have no problems challenging each student over such a wide spread. That’s what is being sold from admin. Thanks but Im not buying it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

Please identify yourself. You are very invested in selling your narrative that I think you must be an insider. If so, why not say who you are to give credence to what you are saying? Otherwise, you just have an opinion like everyone else commenting here.

Shame, but I am certain you won't do so.

I'm the parent of a Wilson junior. I'm involved with sports stuff but not much with academic stuff (beyond going to parent meetings, back to school night and conferences). In addition to what you quoted, I also posted the FAQ.

I have zero knowledge based on being an "insider" (SMH). I read the FAQ, I read the school newsletters (which are terribly written and kind of looney), and that's where I get my information --- all public sources equally available to everyone on DCUM.

I have grave doubts about HFA (I posted about my kid being distracted in an AP class this year because all but a few kids are not engaged and about a kid I know having to leave Wilson due to failing honors biology).

I posted what you quoted above because I think it's silly for parents to invent crises ("the content is being dumbed down, oh the horror!") without spending ten seconds on Google to find easily located public information about what's really happening. The school has stated repeatedly that the content of honors classes is not being dumbed down (the FAQ says that explicitly, except it says "dummied down" and gives an example of one metric used to make sure this is the case -- lexile scores). Why are so many parents so invested in insisting on no evidence whatsoever that this is untrue? Or maybe they have some inside information I don't?

To above poster, see the reply below. You adamantly say it won’t be dumb down because why? Because the admin at Wilson says so? Their word is the be all you say? Just like DCPS has promised things bit don’t deliver? There is ideology and there is reality. You have no concrete proof the rigor will be less.

“Disagree. The honors classes at her school are more rigorous because there are hard expectations and standards of what the class will cover and the students who were there could do the work. So let’s just read in between the lines of this poster and say it for what it is. Wilson is eliminating regular classes which is the lowest level and putting everyone who are not in the AP classes into this HFA classes. Admin is asserting the curriculum and content will be the same rigor. I call that BS. The teachers will attempt it but won’t work with throwing kids who should be in the regular class into the honors class. Because we know DCPS won’t fail those kids who can’t keep up. So there will be grade inflation or the rigor of the course won’t be taught at the level it should. This is how it’s going to play out.”

You have no concrete proof the rigor will be less.

So let’s just read in between the lines of this poster

Because we know DCPS won’t fail those kids who can’t keep up.

So there will be grade inflation or the rigor of the course won’t be taught at the level it should. This is how it’s going to play out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

I’d be happy to have my kid in PP’s kid’s class. I’ve got an scarily smart child, and I expect DCPS to meet his need for challenge and acceleration, the same as all students’ needs should be met.

NP. I'm confident that my averagely smart kid will be fine. I'm comfortable that there are other kids at Wilson that need more help that my kid -- I coach some of those kids, and I see a little of what they have to contend with, so that informs my priorities. I get that you may feel differently, and that's your right. But frankly I get prioritizing other kids in some ways. Given that my kid has been able to take all the AP classes he wanted since sophomore year, came into school with a year of credits from accelerated work in middle school and can take mostly college courses next year, I think he'll be fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

I’d be happy to have my kid in PP’s kid’s class. I’ve got an scarily smart child, and I expect DCPS to meet his need for challenge and acceleration, the same as all students’ needs should be met.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

Please identify yourself. You are very invested in selling your narrative that I think you must be an insider. If so, why not say who you are to give credence to what you are saying? Otherwise, you just have an opinion like everyone else commenting here.

Shame, but I am certain you won't do so.

I'm the parent of a Wilson junior. I'm involved with sports stuff but not much with academic stuff (beyond going to parent meetings, back to school night and conferences). In addition to what you quoted, I also posted the FAQ.

I have zero knowledge based on being an "insider" (SMH). I read the FAQ, I read the school newsletters (which are terribly written and kind of looney), and that's where I get my information --- all public sources equally available to everyone on DCUM.

I have grave doubts about HFA (I posted about my kid being distracted in an AP class this year because all but a few kids are not engaged and about a kid I know having to leave Wilson due to failing honors biology).

I posted what you quoted above because I think it's silly for parents to invent crises ("the content is being dumbed down, oh the horror!") without spending ten seconds on Google to find easily located public information about what's really happening. The school has stated repeatedly that the content of honors classes is not being dumbed down (the FAQ says that explicitly, except it says "dummied down" and gives an example of one metric used to make sure this is the case -- lexile scores). Why are so many parents so invested in insisting on no evidence whatsoever that this is untrue? Or maybe they have some inside information I don't?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

Please identify yourself. You are very invested in selling your narrative that I think you must be an insider. If so, why not say who you are to give credence to what you are saying? Otherwise, you just have an opinion like everyone else commenting here.

Shame, but I am certain you won't do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

I’d be happy to have my kid in PP’s kid’s class. I’ve got an scarily smart child, and I expect DCPS to meet his need for challenge and acceleration, the same as all students’ needs should be met.

+1

This is hilarious.
Anonymous poster 1 "please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse"
Anonymous poster 2 "[...] the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents[...]"

I guess poster 2 did not hear poster 1.
I guess poster 2 is a bully, and thinks writing "IN FACT", "FULL STOP" and "shove it" is sophisticated and effective.