Anonymous
08/14/2019 18:17
Subject: Re:Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
I desperately wish our society would put more of an emphasis on pursuing jobs and careers that pay well, and helping people understand paychecks are a function of the value your skills provide in the market. Professions like doctor, lawyer, web developer, business analyst, etc. pay well because these skillsets are scarce and in high demand. Professions like retail associate do not require highly skilled labor, and thus pay less. I have worked at both ends of this spectrum, and can tell you that the up front commitment in time and educational loan debt was well worth the financial stability ten years later.
I am deeply empathetic to those working two or three jobs to make ends meet. I've been there, and it's hell. But working harder and for longer hours in jobs that do not require skills are never going to make a person truly financially secure, are not a sustainable solution. We need to shift the conversation at the get-go of young peoples' careers and education.
I am deeply empathetic to those working two or three jobs to make ends meet. I've been there, and it's hell. But working harder and for longer hours in jobs that do not require skills are never going to make a person truly financially secure, are not a sustainable solution. We need to shift the conversation at the get-go of young peoples' careers and education.
Anonymous
08/14/2019 16:57
Subject: Re:Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Until age 35, I was always very frugal. I never spent more than I could pay off on the credit card that month...maintaining zero balances at all times. At that point, my boyfriend and I got married and bought a house together. OMG. This is a guy who was earning 6 figures (way more than I ever made) and he had a $20K credit card balance at 17%. I didn't find out until the mortgage officer asked me about it. I had to take my own savings and pay off his credit card in order to get a decent mortgage rate. Ridiculous, but I still married him. Today he is a very strong earner (>$800K) and I stay home and handle everything else including finances.
Bottom line, some people (rich or poor) are just bad at dealing with money.
Bottom line, some people (rich or poor) are just bad at dealing with money.
Anonymous
08/14/2019 15:29
Subject: Re:Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
It's a long thread and perhaps it's been discussed in earlier pages, but I will say that based on personal experience it's much easier to be frugal and save when you have clear rewards for doing so. Paying off loans, saving for a down payment, saving for a trip, and all these come more easily to those with higher incomes even if their living expenditures are the same as a lower earning person.
To illustrate this, someone making 100k a year but living off 35k with the goal of saving the rest for a down payment will find it easier to do so than someone making 50k and spending all of the 35k. Because he or she is in a better position in life with something to look forward to.
I was very frugal in my 20s and early 30s because I could afford to be frugal. I could be frugal and eat rice and beans because I told myself the rewards will follow in a few years. And it did. I didn't mind being frugal because I was watching the bank balance and investment portfolio grow rapidly, month by month and year by year. Now I don't have to be as frugal. But if I were a working person with a much smaller income and with a career trajectory that wasn't going to lead me to a higher income, I'd find it much more difficult to be frugal because otherwise what is the point to life? You're not saving that much money to make a difference and what you save will likely be eaten up by emergencies beyond your control. So why not spend what you have when you have it so you can enjoy life a bit?
It's why poor people will spend hundreds on expensive sneakers while a more affluent person will buy the basic $65 New balance.
To illustrate this, someone making 100k a year but living off 35k with the goal of saving the rest for a down payment will find it easier to do so than someone making 50k and spending all of the 35k. Because he or she is in a better position in life with something to look forward to.
I was very frugal in my 20s and early 30s because I could afford to be frugal. I could be frugal and eat rice and beans because I told myself the rewards will follow in a few years. And it did. I didn't mind being frugal because I was watching the bank balance and investment portfolio grow rapidly, month by month and year by year. Now I don't have to be as frugal. But if I were a working person with a much smaller income and with a career trajectory that wasn't going to lead me to a higher income, I'd find it much more difficult to be frugal because otherwise what is the point to life? You're not saving that much money to make a difference and what you save will likely be eaten up by emergencies beyond your control. So why not spend what you have when you have it so you can enjoy life a bit?
It's why poor people will spend hundreds on expensive sneakers while a more affluent person will buy the basic $65 New balance.
Anonymous
08/14/2019 13:16
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:I think being taught about money is a privilege. My parents always talked to me about saving and money. I understood how credit and retirement plans worked out of high school. A lot of people are not so lucky and don’t learn those things soon enough.
Having parents that model good spending habits is a privilege. My parents had what I perceive to be a healthy attitude about money. They saved most of their money and bought a few luxury items not to keep up with the Joneses, but according to their own likes and priorities. For example they don’t eat out and don’t vacation or buy luxury goods, but they like expensive furniture and jewelry. Giving to charity is also a major priority.
A $6 cup of coffee isn’t what ruins you financially, it’s the inability to prioritize. You can’t have coffee every morning and eat out and have a nice car and vacation if your salary won’t support it.
This.
My parents were great when it came to pushing me towards academic excellence. They were not so good when it came to money management. You can't share what you don't have. I'm much smarter about money now, but I would be much better off financially if I received a good financial education earlier in my life.
Anonymous
08/14/2019 10:19
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where does one find a non-flat screen TV these days? Please do tell!
In a museum and possibly a third world country.
^^ Also want to add that majority of people in thirds world countries have a smart phone. Shocking I know, but a common necessity nonetheless.
You can argue that a smart phone is a necessity, but no one will buy that an expensive smartphone like an iphone is a necessity. There are plenty of cheaper smart phones available.
You can get good deals on iphones (or any smartphone) if you are savvy and watch for sales and are willing to get a slightly older model they are trying to offload. Case in point- I got my IPhone 7 on black Friday 2 seasons ago for $400. Considering I usually keep my phones for 3+ years I don’t think that’s too bad.
Anonymous
08/14/2019 10:10
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When I was dead broke in my early 20s. I had no cable, internet, a 25 year old junk car able to register as "classic"
$29 a year car insurance I fixed my self junkyard parts.
Never ate out. No paying coffee free are work. Never joined gym. Lived at home or cheap roommate rentals 22-29.
If you have no monthly fixed costs and no discretionary spending you can save.
My vacation trip was my friends had jobs they traveled and went to LA, PR and Florida for price of flight mooched off their hotel company paid for.
Also knew every happy hour.
Kids today have dogs, new iPhones, go to Starbucks, rent their own apartments, belong to gyms, lease cars and wonder where money goes. They also have too much student loans. They could have lived at home during school and did community college years 1 and 2 and graduated debt free.
They also eat more expensive food. Pretty much whatever frozen food on sale with a coupon I bought. Buying fresh organic food at Whole Foods or Harris Teather is expensive
Engineer here so I've always had a middle class income. When I first graduated college 20 years ago, I was making $50K in DC. I wasn't "dead broke" but I lived very much like you did, though I didn't even bother going out to happy hour until my late 20s. I mostly ate stuff I cooked in a crock pot, and most of my groceries came from Shoppers. People who made less than I did thought I was nuts, and even family members teased me about my beater car.
Until I was in my mid 30s I lived with a roommate or 2, and I didn't buy my first car until I was 32 and making over $100K. I had to buy a car at that point, as my old one had over 300K miles and everything was breaking down. Funny thing is that I regretted buying that car new, but almost 10 years later I still have that car, and I haven't had car payments in over 5 years. The car is still running great.
Being frugal allowed me to save up to buy a condo, which appreciated and allowed me to buy a house. Right now, my husband and I are living quite comfortably and spend less less than 15% of our income on our house (mortage + insurance + property tax). Funny thing is that a lot of my friends think we make a ton of money and come from money, when the reality is that we've had no help and the lifestyle we have now is built on my frugal lifestyle from my 20s. (In case anyone is wondering, I came from a poor family. College was paid for by scholarships. My first employer paid for my masters).
Most people I know who are poor buy things that they can't afford - like iphones, flat screen TVs, designer clothes, etc. A lot of them drink every day or most days; even if you're not going out to drink, that stuff adds up. I have a cousin who had a full ride to a state school that was one state over. She claimed she was miserable and moved back to her home state and is now maybe $80K in debt. Her parents are middle class. She constantly complains about not having money (say to pay for groceries), but she's somehow in a rich girl sorority.
You're making the same assumptions about others that you don't like people making about you! We have a flat screen TV. My husband literally took it from the disposal area of our complex and fixed it with a $10 capacitor. I guess if you came over you'd think we blew too much money on it?
You can't always judge from only the visible bits of someone's situation.
I did not realize there were options to purchasing a "flat" screen TV? The old boob tubes were phased out 15 years back. Perhaps the PP expects people to watch TV on the smartphone vs. purchasing a dedicated flat screen TV.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 21:52
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where does one find a non-flat screen TV these days? Please do tell!
In a museum and possibly a third world country.
NextDoor, baby.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 20:50
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When I was dead broke in my early 20s. I had no cable, internet, a 25 year old junk car able to register as "classic"
$29 a year car insurance I fixed my self junkyard parts.
Never ate out. No paying coffee free are work. Never joined gym. Lived at home or cheap roommate rentals 22-29.
If you have no monthly fixed costs and no discretionary spending you can save.
My vacation trip was my friends had jobs they traveled and went to LA, PR and Florida for price of flight mooched off their hotel company paid for.
Also knew every happy hour.
Kids today have dogs, new iPhones, go to Starbucks, rent their own apartments, belong to gyms, lease cars and wonder where money goes. They also have too much student loans. They could have lived at home during school and did community college years 1 and 2 and graduated debt free.
They also eat more expensive food. Pretty much whatever frozen food on sale with a coupon I bought. Buying fresh organic food at Whole Foods or Harris Teather is expensive
Engineer here so I've always had a middle class income. When I first graduated college 20 years ago, I was making $50K in DC. I wasn't "dead broke" but I lived very much like you did, though I didn't even bother going out to happy hour until my late 20s. I mostly ate stuff I cooked in a crock pot, and most of my groceries came from Shoppers. People who made less than I did thought I was nuts, and even family members teased me about my beater car.
Until I was in my mid 30s I lived with a roommate or 2, and I didn't buy my first car until I was 32 and making over $100K. I had to buy a car at that point, as my old one had over 300K miles and everything was breaking down. Funny thing is that I regretted buying that car new, but almost 10 years later I still have that car, and I haven't had car payments in over 5 years. The car is still running great.
Being frugal allowed me to save up to buy a condo, which appreciated and allowed me to buy a house. Right now, my husband and I are living quite comfortably and spend less less than 15% of our income on our house (mortage + insurance + property tax). Funny thing is that a lot of my friends think we make a ton of money and come from money, when the reality is that we've had no help and the lifestyle we have now is built on my frugal lifestyle from my 20s. (In case anyone is wondering, I came from a poor family. College was paid for by scholarships. My first employer paid for my masters).
Most people I know who are poor buy things that they can't afford - like iphones, flat screen TVs, designer clothes, etc. A lot of them drink every day or most days; even if you're not going out to drink, that stuff adds up. I have a cousin who had a full ride to a state school that was one state over. She claimed she was miserable and moved back to her home state and is now maybe $80K in debt. Her parents are middle class. She constantly complains about not having money (say to pay for groceries), but she's somehow in a rich girl sorority.
You're making the same assumptions about others that you don't like people making about you! We have a flat screen TV. My husband literally took it from the disposal area of our complex and fixed it with a $10 capacitor. I guess if you came over you'd think we blew too much money on it?
You can't always judge from only the visible bits of someone's situation.
That's wonderful and to be applauded, but you should also admit that this is very rare. Most people who have flat screen TVs or iphones do not obtain these items from dumpster diving.
+1 Crappy example, PP. You're missing the point. Most of the people who are poor as a result of their own bad financial decisions typically have several items they can't afford. No one is judging you for having a single flat screen TV and being poor, but hell yeah I'm judging you for having a flat screen TV, designer purse, designer tennis shoes, iPhone, cable AND funds to eat out or purchase alcohol.
You're missing my point, which is that only part of someone's financial picture is visible from outside (much like the PP i was responding to thought people were misjudging her as rich), and it is maybe making a bit of a leap from "owns x items" to "is poor as a result of their own financial decisions." Yes, it's one example i cherry picked from a list that happens to apply to me, but my point here is not that I care what PP thinks of my TV!
Fair point. I really didn't and don't mind what people thought of my frugality or what they think of me now.
You are right that only part of someone's financial picture is visible from the outside. But the people on this thread and many people I know do in fact complain about "being broke" and yet don't see that they spend recklessly.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 19:07
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When I was dead broke in my early 20s. I had no cable, internet, a 25 year old junk car able to register as "classic"
$29 a year car insurance I fixed my self junkyard parts.
Never ate out. No paying coffee free are work. Never joined gym. Lived at home or cheap roommate rentals 22-29.
If you have no monthly fixed costs and no discretionary spending you can save.
My vacation trip was my friends had jobs they traveled and went to LA, PR and Florida for price of flight mooched off their hotel company paid for.
Also knew every happy hour.
Kids today have dogs, new iPhones, go to Starbucks, rent their own apartments, belong to gyms, lease cars and wonder where money goes. They also have too much student loans. They could have lived at home during school and did community college years 1 and 2 and graduated debt free.
They also eat more expensive food. Pretty much whatever frozen food on sale with a coupon I bought. Buying fresh organic food at Whole Foods or Harris Teather is expensive
Engineer here so I've always had a middle class income. When I first graduated college 20 years ago, I was making $50K in DC. I wasn't "dead broke" but I lived very much like you did, though I didn't even bother going out to happy hour until my late 20s. I mostly ate stuff I cooked in a crock pot, and most of my groceries came from Shoppers. People who made less than I did thought I was nuts, and even family members teased me about my beater car.
Until I was in my mid 30s I lived with a roommate or 2, and I didn't buy my first car until I was 32 and making over $100K. I had to buy a car at that point, as my old one had over 300K miles and everything was breaking down. Funny thing is that I regretted buying that car new, but almost 10 years later I still have that car, and I haven't had car payments in over 5 years. The car is still running great.
Being frugal allowed me to save up to buy a condo, which appreciated and allowed me to buy a house. Right now, my husband and I are living quite comfortably and spend less less than 15% of our income on our house (mortage + insurance + property tax). Funny thing is that a lot of my friends think we make a ton of money and come from money, when the reality is that we've had no help and the lifestyle we have now is built on my frugal lifestyle from my 20s. (In case anyone is wondering, I came from a poor family. College was paid for by scholarships. My first employer paid for my masters).
Most people I know who are poor buy things that they can't afford - like iphones, flat screen TVs, designer clothes, etc. A lot of them drink every day or most days; even if you're not going out to drink, that stuff adds up. I have a cousin who had a full ride to a state school that was one state over. She claimed she was miserable and moved back to her home state and is now maybe $80K in debt. Her parents are middle class. She constantly complains about not having money (say to pay for groceries), but she's somehow in a rich girl sorority.
You're making the same assumptions about others that you don't like people making about you! We have a flat screen TV. My husband literally took it from the disposal area of our complex and fixed it with a $10 capacitor. I guess if you came over you'd think we blew too much money on it?
You can't always judge from only the visible bits of someone's situation.
That's wonderful and to be applauded, but you should also admit that this is very rare. Most people who have flat screen TVs or iphones do not obtain these items from dumpster diving.
+1 Crappy example, PP. You're missing the point. Most of the people who are poor as a result of their own bad financial decisions typically have several items they can't afford. No one is judging you for having a single flat screen TV and being poor, but hell yeah I'm judging you for having a flat screen TV, designer purse, designer tennis shoes, iPhone, cable AND funds to eat out or purchase alcohol.
You're missing my point, which is that only part of someone's financial picture is visible from outside (much like the PP i was responding to thought people were misjudging her as rich), and it is maybe making a bit of a leap from "owns x items" to "is poor as a result of their own financial decisions." Yes, it's one example i cherry picked from a list that happens to apply to me, but my point here is not that I care what PP thinks of my TV!
Anonymous
08/13/2019 17:45
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where does one find a non-flat screen TV these days? Please do tell!
In a museum and possibly a third world country.
^^ Also want to add that majority of people in thirds world countries have a smart phone. Shocking I know, but a common necessity nonetheless.
You can argue that a smart phone is a necessity, but no one will buy that an expensive smartphone like an iphone is a necessity. There are plenty of cheaper smart phones available.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 17:41
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
I think being taught about money is a privilege. My parents always talked to me about saving and money. I understood how credit and retirement plans worked out of high school. A lot of people are not so lucky and don’t learn those things soon enough.
Having parents that model good spending habits is a privilege. My parents had what I perceive to be a healthy attitude about money. They saved most of their money and bought a few luxury items not to keep up with the Joneses, but according to their own likes and priorities. For example they don’t eat out and don’t vacation or buy luxury goods, but they like expensive furniture and jewelry. Giving to charity is also a major priority.
A $6 cup of coffee isn’t what ruins you financially, it’s the inability to prioritize. You can’t have coffee every morning and eat out and have a nice car and vacation if your salary won’t support it.
Having parents that model good spending habits is a privilege. My parents had what I perceive to be a healthy attitude about money. They saved most of their money and bought a few luxury items not to keep up with the Joneses, but according to their own likes and priorities. For example they don’t eat out and don’t vacation or buy luxury goods, but they like expensive furniture and jewelry. Giving to charity is also a major priority.
A $6 cup of coffee isn’t what ruins you financially, it’s the inability to prioritize. You can’t have coffee every morning and eat out and have a nice car and vacation if your salary won’t support it.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 17:07
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You're making the same assumptions about others that you don't like people making about you! We have a flat screen TV. My husband literally took it from the disposal area of our complex and fixed it with a $10 capacitor. I guess if you came over you'd think we blew too much money on it?
You can't always judge from only the visible bits of someone's situation.
That's wonderful and to be applauded, but you should also admit that this is very rare. Most people who have flat screen TVs or iphones do not obtain these items from dumpster diving.
But there are plenty of people who buy refurbished or used flat screen TVs for way less than the market value of new TVs. You can buy a 50" flat screen TV refurbished on-line for about $200-300. Less if you are willing to do Craigslist (I saw one as cheap as $50). I also know some people who hand down old TV's to friends or neighbors when they upgrade equipment, just to get it out of the house. I personally will never sell on craigslist again. If I can't ebay it, then I get rid of it some other way.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 16:55
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where does one find a non-flat screen TV these days? Please do tell!
In a museum and possibly a third world country.
^^ Also want to add that majority of people in thirds world countries have a smart phone. Shocking I know, but a common necessity nonetheless.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 16:50
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Where does one find a non-flat screen TV these days? Please do tell!
In a museum and possibly a third world country.
Anonymous
08/13/2019 16:44
Subject: Why is it hard for some privileged people to realize that saving is hard?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When I was dead broke in my early 20s. I had no cable, internet, a 25 year old junk car able to register as "classic"
$29 a year car insurance I fixed my self junkyard parts.
Never ate out. No paying coffee free are work. Never joined gym. Lived at home or cheap roommate rentals 22-29.
If you have no monthly fixed costs and no discretionary spending you can save.
My vacation trip was my friends had jobs they traveled and went to LA, PR and Florida for price of flight mooched off their hotel company paid for.
Also knew every happy hour.
Kids today have dogs, new iPhones, go to Starbucks, rent their own apartments, belong to gyms, lease cars and wonder where money goes. They also have too much student loans. They could have lived at home during school and did community college years 1 and 2 and graduated debt free.
They also eat more expensive food. Pretty much whatever frozen food on sale with a coupon I bought. Buying fresh organic food at Whole Foods or Harris Teather is expensive
Engineer here so I've always had a middle class income. When I first graduated college 20 years ago, I was making $50K in DC. I wasn't "dead broke" but I lived very much like you did, though I didn't even bother going out to happy hour until my late 20s. I mostly ate stuff I cooked in a crock pot, and most of my groceries came from Shoppers. People who made less than I did thought I was nuts, and even family members teased me about my beater car.
Until I was in my mid 30s I lived with a roommate or 2, and I didn't buy my first car until I was 32 and making over $100K. I had to buy a car at that point, as my old one had over 300K miles and everything was breaking down. Funny thing is that I regretted buying that car new, but almost 10 years later I still have that car, and I haven't had car payments in over 5 years. The car is still running great.
Being frugal allowed me to save up to buy a condo, which appreciated and allowed me to buy a house. Right now, my husband and I are living quite comfortably and spend less less than 15% of our income on our house (mortage + insurance + property tax). Funny thing is that a lot of my friends think we make a ton of money and come from money, when the reality is that we've had no help and the lifestyle we have now is built on my frugal lifestyle from my 20s. (In case anyone is wondering, I came from a poor family. College was paid for by scholarships. My first employer paid for my masters).
Most people I know who are poor buy things that they can't afford - like iphones, flat screen TVs, designer clothes, etc. A lot of them drink every day or most days; even if you're not going out to drink, that stuff adds up. I have a cousin who had a full ride to a state school that was one state over. She claimed she was miserable and moved back to her home state and is now maybe $80K in debt. Her parents are middle class. She constantly complains about not having money (say to pay for groceries), but she's somehow in a rich girl sorority.
You're making the same assumptions about others that you don't like people making about you! We have a flat screen TV. My husband literally took it from the disposal area of our complex and fixed it with a $10 capacitor. I guess if you came over you'd think we blew too much money on it?
You can't always judge from only the visible bits of someone's situation.
That's wonderful and to be applauded, but you should also admit that this is very rare. Most people who have flat screen TVs or iphones do not obtain these items from dumpster diving.
+1 Crappy example, PP. You're missing the point. Most of the people who are poor as a result of their own bad financial decisions typically have several items they can't afford. No one is judging you for having a single flat screen TV and being poor, but hell yeah I'm judging you for having a flat screen TV, designer purse, designer tennis shoes, iPhone, cable AND funds to eat out or purchase alcohol.