Anonymous wrote:I personally know two families where 'white' grandma does school pick-ups, homework, etc. And another family where white grandpa who does this too! My Mom is always cooking, playing with kids, running errands for me when she visits. Is that unusual?

Extremely unusual. Hell most of DCUM would say that your mom is a guest and she shouldn't lift a finger to help when she visits. '

The martyrdom around motherhood is unreal.

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So, while YOU may not have seen it, it is there.

Really? How many kids do you know whose grandparents pick them up from school every school day, make them lunch, take them to extra-curriculum classes, supervise them at home and cook dinner, help clean up?

I know 0. In the states.

None, of course, because the children eat lunch at school.

The other stuff, though -- I know lots of families where the grandparents are involved in child care.

Anonymous wrote:I personally know two families where 'white' grandma does school pick-ups, homework, etc. And another family where white grandpa who does this too! My Mom is always cooking, playing with kids, running errands for me when she visits. Is that unusual?

In DC Metro? Probably.

Most Asian families in the US, especially recent immigrants, live with their elderly parents, and the parents do help out *a lot* with the kids. I am Asian, and although this would be really helpful for me, I don't want to live with my parents because my mom and I would be at each other's throats. My parents do, however, live next door to my sibling, and they have helped a lot with with my nieces and nephews. It really helped my sibling out, and vice versa... I am glad to know my parents have someone very close by to help them if they need it. Yes, I do my part.. I visit and send them money.

My neighbors are Chinese, been here for over 20 years. They babysit their grandchildren on the weekdays, every day. The other neighbors are white. Their grandkids only come over once in a while even though their kids live really close by. They all go to preK or daycare. Anecdotal, I know.

I personally know two families where 'white' grandma does school pick-ups, homework, etc. And another family where white grandpa who does this too! My Mom is always cooking, playing with kids, running errands for me when she visits. Is that unusual?

I mean, who here, on this forum, can say that they don't pay for nanny or childcare, but their parents or in-laws take care of their kids?

Anonymous wrote:
So, while YOU may not have seen it, it is there.

Really? How many kids do you know whose grandparents pick them up from school every school day, make them lunch, take them to extra-curriculum classes, supervise them at home and cook dinner, help clean up?

I know 0. In the states.

Anonymous wrote:My mother was willing to move from her home state far away into our house for one year or more to help us get launched with our little ones. That is a sacrifice because that meant leaving her life and friends she'd had since her childhood. She got sick suddenly and passed away and the child stuff has been on hold since, not because we won't have her help but because I am having a hard time with the idea of having a child that my mom will never know or nurture or love. She wanted grandchildren so much and I feel like I failed her.

But anyway, that is a counter-narrative to the American grandparents are selfish comments running through this thread.

I am so sorry for your loss!! My mom is planning to do this for us as well and it is a huge blessing. Otherwise we'd have to pay someone thousands of dollars a month.

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Anonymous wrote:Again, the posters above with large HHI are are not too poor. Their priorities are not aligned with kids. Whatever. Do what you want. But stop with the "we can't afford it" crap - it just isn't true.

Daycare plus very basic child needs (diapers, formula) runs at least 25k a year. Do you really think most 30 year olds have an extra 25k laying around?

There are plenty of 30-year-olds in the DC area who have children. I haven't asked them all whether or not they have an extra $25,000 lying around, but the possibilities are 1. yes, they do, or 2. no, they don't, but are somehow managing anyway.

Now, you might not want to manage the way they're managing. And that would be perfectly ok!

But it is absurd to say, "I can't afford to have a child", when there are a lot of people who earn a lot less than you and have a child.

I am 30 and know maybe 3 people who had a child at age 30 in this area. One had incredible financial support from family (bought them a house) and the other had to move from the city to the burbs into a family-owned condo. The third couple got pregnant on accident and the child had severe needs. They had to move way out into MD and the wife had to quit her job. They are barely getting by.

I had my first at 27 and so did a lot of our circle (first baby in late twenties). HHI at the time was around 200-250 which isn't SO far off from the PPs.

I think I know maybe two couples who were married at 27. VERY FEW couples make 200-250k HHI in their late 20s.

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Anonymous wrote:Why the fuck did you people buy a home with a mortgage near $4500/month?

That's your first problem.

Because we can.

Well then, you decided this was more of a priority than having kids, which is what PP posters were saying.

I can afford both but I don't want to waste the money on kids.

Rather spend money on trips and cars and a mansion?

Trips, savings, and a historic home, yes.

My mother was willing to move from her home state far away into our house for one year or more to help us get launched with our little ones. That is a sacrifice because that meant leaving her life and friends she'd had since her childhood. She got sick suddenly and passed away and the child stuff has been on hold since, not because we won't have her help but because I am having a hard time with the idea of having a child that my mom will never know or nurture or love. She wanted grandchildren so much and I feel like I failed her.

But anyway, that is a counter-narrative to the American grandparents are selfish comments running through this thread.

My in laws do a lot of this for their grandchildren. And I know of multiple families in just my neighborhood who do the same.

So, while YOU may not have seen it, it is there.

Anonymous wrote:Well it's interesting because IME wealthy people, or at least UMC people, are having larger families again. "Three is the new two" and all that.

Mmmhmm. In the trust fund set three is a minimum. Why not when we can afford them?

No having family around to help is a huge obstacle to having kids. We raised DC alone and DH traveled and it was super hard. Can't afford a nanny. MIL didn't help at all. She expected social visits from us, but never came over to do the dirty work.

That's the main difference I see between my native country and the states. Where I'm from grandparents don't just visit, they work. They pick up kids from school, take them to activities, cook and clean, help them with homework. Basically replacing parents. Parents work long hours while they know kids are well taken care of.

Here I haven't seen this done by American grandparents. Ever. Only when kids visit them, but never day to day. It's a sacrifice, and I suppose Americans are selfish and don't want to make sacrifices.

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Anonymous wrote:Why the fuck did you people buy a home with a mortgage near $4500/month?

That's your first problem.

Because we can.

Well then, you decided this was more of a priority than having kids, which is what PP posters were saying.

I can afford both but I don't want to waste the money on kids.

Rather spend money on trips and cars and a mansion?

I'm not the PP, but why not?

Again, if you want that, good for you. Just make sure not to do all that THEN blame lack of extra money for why you can't "afford" kids. Kids, for MOST mere mortals, do require some sacrifice.

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Have you talked to many old people in the US? How many of them wish that they could live with their children/grandchildren instead of living independently as long as they can (or longer)?

Of course, they want to live independently.

But there is a price to pay for independence - loneliness and a distance from children/grandchildren. And lack of support network.

Asian and Slavic cultures don't have that problem. My MIL who lives in the same city sees her child and grandchild maybe once a month on average. In other cultures it would be unthinkable.

You keep saying that, but that doesn't make it true.

It is true. I see a lot of grandparents who only see their family a few times a year. I see these lonely grandmas everywhere. They are starved for a conversation.