Anonymous wrote:Well in any case I'm eagerly awaiting my other $5 cause I KNOW this dude ain't gonna be called out as a thug or a criminal (despite being recently arrested on drug charges) and there's a 99.999999% probability that the meat of the discussion around this dude will be his psyche - not his race.

This is just political posturing. "Thug" is a term generally associated with street crime and/or gangsters, and this incident was far worse than that. Osama bin Laden was not a "thug" either. Nor were the (black) beltway snipers, and I seem to recall a lot of discussion about their "psyche's" as well.

And now I'm crying: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicasimeone/these-are-the-victims-of-the-charleston-church-shooting?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgp#.ngl7O62gx7

Anonymous wrote:Well in any case I'm eagerly awaiting my other $5 cause I KNOW this dude ain't gonna be called out as a thug or a criminal (despite being recently arrested on drug charges) and there's a 99.999999% probability that the meat of the discussion around this dude will be his psyche - not his race.

It’s in the mail.
We get it - you have an overwhelming need to say “I told you so.”

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

Please stop.
Jesse Matthews.
Daron Wint.

Well duh, I'm not saying black dudes never get taken into custody I'm being obtuse to make a point.
Oh - and since you like rambling off names, ramble off the names of some white suspects who got killed as opposed to taken into custody.

I'll wait.

The guy in Dallas just the other day. They shot him with a 50 caliber.

Damn you Jeff, lol.

Well in any case I'm eagerly awaiting my other $5 cause I KNOW this dude ain't gonna be called out as a thug or a criminal (despite being recently arrested on drug charges) and there's a 99.999999% probability that the meat of the discussion around this dude will be his psyche - not his race.

Anonymous wrote:There's a photo of the suspect in an orange jumpsuit that was apparently taken in April at a detention center. Does anyone know why he was there? Did he commit other crimes in the past? I'm not seeing anything about whether he has a criminal record.

I heard he was questioned in response to a retail business complaint that he was asking a bunch of crazy questions - closing time, closing procedures, and other stuff. He said his parents were saying he had to get a job, but he was found with drugs.

Anonymous wrote:

I think conflating mass murders and serial killers is a category error. Dahmer was obviously loopy; people who kill abortion providers are rational given their premises. I think this gets at the crazy vs. evil distinction, which in real life is, of course, to some extent muddled in all cases.

I agree with this. I have a very hard time handing mental illness as an excuse to mass murders. Do you need to have some crazy in you to do that, sure. Should that be an excuse for your crime, in my opinion, no.

Serial Killers, different story. Should be locked up forever, but no doubt that they have a compulsion and they cannot be anything but a predator.

Anonymous wrote:There's a photo of the suspect in an orange jumpsuit that was apparently taken in April at a detention center. Does anyone know why he was there? Did he commit other crimes in the past? I'm not seeing anything about whether he has a criminal record.

Apparently arrested for trespassing in that instance. I also understand he had a couple of drug-related arrests.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Looks like a fake nose in addition to a wig. I hope people don't fall for any insanity bullshit - this was obviously premeditated and the killer wants to get away with it.

Crazy people can be intelligent and excellent planners. Mental illness is just not the irrational, mumbling homeless people you see wondering the D.C. streets.
Mental illness is an insidious, awful thing that is manifested in myriad ways.

Crazy comes in degrees. I am sure most people have some degree of crazy. Stop making excuses for this criminal. He wasn't too crazy to not know what he was doing was wrong. He disguised himself and possibly wore body armor to protect himself.

Not PP, but how is saying he's crazy an excuse? There is no excuse. But to perpetrate something like this, you must have issues. You just have to. Doesn't mean you are incapable of planning and executing the plan.

Thanks - I am the one to whom pp was responding. I don't understand when people say calling someone crazy is excusing their actions. That is dumb as hell. Crazy or sane, if you are dangerous you need to be locked up somewhere. How is that excusing anything? This right here is how and why we have broken mental health system in this country, we think identifying and understanding mental illness is excusing it. Stupid.

If you want people to accept mental illness as an excuse, then you have to accept it for all groups of people. It is always an excuse for whites, but other racial groups are automatically assumed criminal without any regards to their mental state. Now, that's dumb as hell.

More than one person told you that mental illness is not an excuse. Yet you continue to pander about your own delusions. Can't you read?

Then stop using it as an excuse, reason, or validation. He is a mass murderer. A thug. A criminal. A monster. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses of varying degrees and they are not murderes, thugs, monsters.

Yes. You can rightfully call him all of these things. Why does it bother you so much that he also is clearly mentally ill?

It doesn't. He may or not be. What bothers me is that when the murderer is white, that is the immediate go to, as if white people would never kill unless affected by mental illness. What bothers me is the hypocrisy so many of you display.

But we're not talking about any kind of killing. There is such a thing as a rational killing and this is not it. Oddly, most (not all, but most) recent mass murderers and serial killers in this country are white males. Of course they're mentally ill. WHO THE F*CK WOULD DO THAT IF THEY WEREN'T? Would anyone question that Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill? Of course not. He freaking ATE people! That's doesn't mean he wasn't a monster. Why can't I say this f*cked up individual was an evil monster and also acknowledge that he is mentally ill? Psychopathy is a mental illness, is it not? I would say the same about the beltway snipers. How does that make me a hypocrite?

What you are failing to see is that the other poster is saying the the usual/general go to narrative when there is an alleged black perpetrator is that the black perpetrator is a "thug","animal", "evil". And this is the language that is used to describe an array of black male alleged perpetrators whether they are alleged to have committed a mass killing or playing with a toy gun in the park.
The go-to for alleged black killers is that they are evil and less than human, they are not described with adjectives that suggest that they are humans with mental defects. It is another manifestation of institutionalized and often unacknowledged racism in this society.
Get it?
That does not mean that this young guy is not crazy. Dude can be crazy and there can also be racism in our society.

I completely get that, but I, as an individual, am not and would not use "thug" or "animal" to describe a black perpetrator if he shot up a church full of white people. I would say that person is mentally ill. So when I say that the perpetrator is mentally ill, regardless of his race, I am not "excusing" anything and I certainly don't believe I am a hypocrite. I believe race relations in this country are terrible. I believe black lives matter. I believe the way we recognize and treat mental illness in this country needs to be examined. I believe this man should in no way have had access to a firearm. I believe this was an evil act, I believe the perp was a racist terrorist, AND I believe he was mentally ill. Why can't we as individuals have a conversation about all those factors, which all are clearly at play, without someone calling me a hypocrite because some other white people that I don't agree with would have called him a thug if the races were switched in this scenario?

Anonymous wrote:Other topics to discuss (speculate on) besides the flag are:

What was his father thinking in gifting him a gun for his 21st birthday?

If his father knew he was mentally ill or at risk for perpetuating this crime, could he be charged with providing material assistance to terrorism?

Where was he for the 14 hours between the shooting and being stopped? Did he have help hiding?

What do folks think of the president's remarks? http://t.co/GYLKTRFuQ3

This is interesting to me. If his father didn't know, then I have no issue with him giving his adult son a firearm. However this kid seems to be kind of a peculiar loner (so far) so I would hope his father would notice something was off about his son.

I do think this is a hate crime (and horrible inexcusable tragedy) but not terrorism. If the dots can be connected between Dylann's motives and what knowledge his father had about his son, then yes I agree his father should be charged with accessory.

There's a photo of the suspect in an orange jumpsuit that was apparently taken in April at a detention center. Does anyone know why he was there? Did he commit other crimes in the past? I'm not seeing anything about whether he has a criminal record.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like a fake nose in addition to a wig. I hope people don't fall for any insanity bullshit - this was obviously premeditated and the killer wants to get away with it.

Crazy people can be intelligent and excellent planners. Mental illness is just not the irrational, mumbling homeless people you see wondering the D.C. streets.
Mental illness is an insidious, awful thing that is manifested in myriad ways.

Crazy comes in degrees. I am sure most people have some degree of crazy. Stop making excuses for this criminal. He wasn't too crazy to not know what he was doing was wrong. He disguised himself and possibly wore body armor to protect himself.

Not PP, but how is saying he's crazy an excuse? There is no excuse. But to perpetrate something like this, you must have issues. You just have to. Doesn't mean you are incapable of planning and executing the plan.

Thanks - I am the one to whom pp was responding. I don't understand when people say calling someone crazy is excusing their actions. That is dumb as hell. Crazy or sane, if you are dangerous you need to be locked up somewhere. How is that excusing anything? This right here is how and why we have broken mental health system in this country, we think identifying and understanding mental illness is excusing it. Stupid.

If you want people to accept mental illness as an excuse, then you have to accept it for all groups of people. It is always an excuse for whites, but other racial groups are automatically assumed criminal without any regards to their mental state. Now, that's dumb as hell.

More than one person told you that mental illness is not an excuse. Yet you continue to pander about your own delusions. Can't you read?

Then stop using it as an excuse, reason, or validation. He is a mass murderer. A thug. A criminal. A monster. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses of varying degrees and they are not murderes, thugs, monsters.

Yes. You can rightfully call him all of these things. Why does it bother you so much that he also is clearly mentally ill?

It doesn't. He may or not be. What bothers me is that when the murderer is white, that is the immediate go to, as if white people would never kill unless affected by mental illness. What bothers me is the hypocrisy so many of you display.

But we're not talking about any kind of killing. There is such a thing as a rational killing and this is not it. Oddly, most (not all, but most) recent mass murderers and serial killers in this country are white males. Of course they're mentally ill. WHO THE F*CK WOULD DO THAT IF THEY WEREN'T? Would anyone question that Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill? Of course not. He freaking ATE people! That's doesn't mean he wasn't a monster. Why can't I say this f*cked up individual was an evil monster and also acknowledge that he is mentally ill? Psychopathy is a mental illness, is it not? I would say the same about the beltway snipers. How does that make me a hypocrite?

I think conflating mass murders and serial killers is a category error. Dahmer was obviously loopy; people who kill abortion providers are rational given their premises. I think this gets at the crazy vs. evil distinction, which in real life is, of course, to some extent muddled in all cases.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

Please stop.
Jesse Matthews.
Daron Wint.

Well duh, I'm not saying black dudes never get taken into custody I'm being obtuse to make a point.
Oh - and since you like rambling off names, ramble off the names of some white suspects who got killed as opposed to taken into custody.

I'll wait.

You are making your point very well. You are obtuse by choice.

I started a flag thread here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/479602.page

Hook for the Political Forum, Clarence Thomas joined the SC liberals in a case involving the Confederate flag.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

Please stop.
Jesse Matthews.
Daron Wint.

Well duh, I'm not saying black dudes never get taken into custody I'm being obtuse to make a point.
Oh - and since you like rambling off names, ramble off the names of some white suspects who got killed as opposed to taken into custody.

I'll wait.

Not that PP. James Boulware immediately springs to mind. Does he count?