Anonymous
12/28/2014 08:19
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place
So you want "proof" of God and hell, but you dismiss theologians and thinkers who write about these things and refuse to read their books.
You really are an immature, petty jackass. Too bad you lack any self-awareness.
Or, you're just a troll with a particularly assinine persona. As an atheist myself, I can't see why anyone bothers to interact with you.
not either PP . . .
But how do theologians and thinkers show evidence of god?
It's one thing to develop a theory based on reality - Marx and his Manifesto, for example - but quite another to prove there's a god by studying ancient texts.
- Again, what evidence is there of Jesus OUTSIDE of the bible? (Even if there was a Jesus, there are no other reports of his mystical ways.)
- Examine WHY cultures moves from polytheism to monotheism. It's all about the power and control one can wield through ONE god. The lesser gods, each controlling one aspect, were combined into one larger god. Greeks, Romans, Jews (early on) - all polytheistic
What's most amusing is our fascination with Greek and Roman mythology. Allusions to these gods and goddesses have been placed in many great texts across the ages. We call them myths but fail to recognize that from these myths sprang the idea of one god.
Zeus and his Roman counterpart, Jupiter, ruled over the gods/goddesses and humans. Hell, Zeus is even mentioned in the bible!
Acts 14:8-13New International Version (NIV)
In Lystra and Derbe
8 In Lystra there sat a man who was lame. He had been that way from birth and had never walked. 9 He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed 10 and called out, “Stand up on your feet!” At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.
11 When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” 12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.
Theologians like CS Lewis, in their serious writings (i.e., not CS Lewis' Narnia novels) address exactly the concerns the atheist troll keeps raising here, for example, why a good God would allow bad things to happen, the nature of Satan, et cetera. That's why another poster suggested the troll read CS Lewis, I believe PP suggested Lewis' "Screwtape Letters" but I could be wrong. In fact, CS Lewis writes about his reasons for belief in another of his books, "Mere Christianity", but that wasn't the book PP was telling the troll to read.
And please, folks. The atheist troll brought Narnia into the thread, because that particular troll didn't feel like reading like reading the aforementioned CS Lewis books. None of the people of faith here suggested the Narnia series as "proof of God." That's ridiculous.
Anonymous
12/28/2014 08:09
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CS Lewis was an extremely intelligent man.
So was Ayn Rand, Anton Chekhov, Asimov, James Baldwin - all atheists.
your point is?
Any Rand was NOT all that bright, and she was a terrible writer. Sorry.
And that comment helps support your side?
You can't come up with a better argument?
John Rogers
the one who wrote a cartoon series called the Jackie Chan Adventures?
quite an impressive body of work . . .
Anonymous
12/28/2014 08:09
Subject: Why believe in god?
Because there is a beautiful, ordered pattern in nature a d because the universe never ends
Anonymous
12/28/2014 08:04
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place
So you want "proof" of God and hell, but you dismiss theologians and thinkers who write about these things and refuse to read their books.
You really are an immature, petty jackass. Too bad you lack any self-awareness.
Or, you're just a troll with a particularly assinine persona. As an atheist myself, I can't see why anyone bothers to interact with you.
not either PP . . .
But how do theologians and thinkers show evidence of god?
It's one thing to develop a theory based on reality - Marx and his Manifesto, for example - but quite another to prove there's a god by studying ancient texts.
- Again, what evidence is there of Jesus OUTSIDE of the bible? (Even if there was a Jesus, there are no other reports of his mystical ways.)
- Examine WHY cultures moves from polytheism to monotheism. It's all about the power and control one can wield through ONE god. The lesser gods, each controlling one aspect, were combined into one larger god. Greeks, Romans, Jews (early on) - all polytheistic
What's most amusing is our fascination with Greek and Roman mythology. Allusions to these gods and goddesses have been placed in many great texts across the ages. We call them myths but fail to recognize that from these myths sprang the idea of one god.
Zeus and his Roman counterpart, Jupiter, ruled over the gods/goddesses and humans. Hell, Zeus is even mentioned in the bible!
Acts 14:8-13New International Version (NIV)
In Lystra and Derbe
8 In Lystra there sat a man who was lame. He had been that way from birth and had never walked. 9 He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed 10 and called out, “Stand up on your feet!” At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.
11 When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” 12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.
Anonymous
12/28/2014 07:56
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CS Lewis was an extremely intelligent man.
So was Ayn Rand, Anton Chekhov, Asimov, James Baldwin - all atheists.
your point is?
Any Rand was NOT all that bright, and she was a terrible writer. Sorry.
And that comment helps support your side?
You can't come up with a better argument?
Anonymous
12/28/2014 07:52
Subject: Why believe in god?
What I don't get is why the moderator shuts down asshattery on every other forum. Particularly if it's asshattery against Muslims.
Yet he lets this moron troll have free range against Christians and Jews, and even goes so far as to encourage the troll by remiving jpegs that were mocking the atheist troll. There's no way this troll's flippant and half-baked comments can be compared to the actual substance on, say, on the Muslim threads. I know it's his forum, and I know he'll probably accuse me of being "butthurt" when I'm really just annoyed. Its something to ponder, though.
Yet he lets this moron troll have free range against Christians and Jews, and even goes so far as to encourage the troll by remiving jpegs that were mocking the atheist troll. There's no way this troll's flippant and half-baked comments can be compared to the actual substance on, say, on the Muslim threads. I know it's his forum, and I know he'll probably accuse me of being "butthurt" when I'm really just annoyed. Its something to ponder, though.
Anonymous
12/28/2014 07:38
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CS Lewis was an extremely intelligent man.
So was Ayn Rand, Anton Chekhov, Asimov, James Baldwin - all atheists.
your point is?
Any Rand was NOT all that bright, and she was a terrible writer. Sorry.
And that comment helps support your side?
You can't come up with a better argument?
Anonymous
12/28/2014 07:17
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place
So you want "proof" of God and hell, but you dismiss theologians and thinkers who write about these things and refuse to read their books.
You really are an immature, petty jackass. Too bad you lack any self-awareness.
Or, you're just a troll with a particularly assinine persona. As an atheist myself, I can't see why anyone bothers to interact with you.
Anonymous
12/28/2014 07:17
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:CS Lewis was an extremely intelligent man.
So was Ayn Rand, Anton Chekhov, Asimov, James Baldwin - all atheists.
your point is?
Any Rand was NOT all that bright, and she was a terrible writer. Sorry.
Anonymous
12/28/2014 07:15
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place
So you want "proof" of God and hell, but you dismiss theologians and thinkers who write about these things and refuse to read their books.
You really are an immature, petty jackass. Too bad you lack any self-awareness.
Or, you're just a troll with a particularly assinine persona. As an atheist myself, I can't see why anyone bothers to interact with you.
Anonymous
12/27/2014 22:24
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:CS Lewis was an extremely intelligent man.
So was Ayn Rand, Anton Chekhov, Asimov, James Baldwin - all atheists.
your point is?
Anonymous
12/27/2014 22:22
Subject: Why believe in god?
Narnia is based on Christian beliefs. CS Lewis supported the tenets of Christian faith in his writings.
Should a poster perhaps mention Ayn Rand - atheist - on this thread instead?
One would think that the supporters of a god would stick to "believers" like Lewis. After all, you said it yourself - that Lews was ". . . arguably one of the most influential writers of his day," thus proving my point. He has perhaps influenced those who cannot think for themselves.
How difficult it must be to "fight the fight" without evidence . . .
Should a poster perhaps mention Ayn Rand - atheist - on this thread instead?
One would think that the supporters of a god would stick to "believers" like Lewis. After all, you said it yourself - that Lews was ". . . arguably one of the most influential writers of his day," thus proving my point. He has perhaps influenced those who cannot think for themselves.
How difficult it must be to "fight the fight" without evidence . . .
Wait. Who said Narnia is supposed to be "evidence of a God"? Nobody, that's who.
Somebody cited a serious work by the author of the Narnia series, C.S. Lewis. Lewis wrote several books for adults. Look, here's Amazon.com's CSLewis page writing about him: "Clive Staples Lewis (1898-1963) was one of the intellectual giants of the twentieth century and arguably one of the most influential writers of his day." Get it now? You're still uneducated. Your loss!
And you're also a waste of time. My loss! Good bye!
Anonymous
12/27/2014 21:52
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:God gave humans 'good dreams'
" I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions ..." See more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan4.html
About why I believe in God? Because I believe - in the bones of my bones- in absolute Good and Evil (not socially constructed) and without a God is hard (impossible) to justify that.
Why Christianity? Because it is the only religion I know of that at least claims that God came down to suffer with us.
About evil& suffering-the only really big argument agaist God IMO- if God is big enough to be mad at ( for not stopping evil), he is also big enough to have some reason for it. It helps that, as stated above, according to Christianity, He came down to take a share of it, so it's not like he was all talk.
And if we don't appreciate it, he sends us to burn in hell for ETERNITY
I subscribe to the idea that we are all going to be with God, if we want to. Some will prefer Hell to God. Read 'The Great Divorce' to see what I mean.
Oh right -- we should read a whole book to understand your great wisdom
It's very very short book! And yes, it is fiction- so what? (for the other poster who complains about that). There is truth in fiction books.
Also, I told you in brief what I mean: most theologians dont have a fire and brimstone view of hell. It is most like a choice that turns into an addition: God is like getting clean to an alcoholic, first you dont want to, then you cant. In this view, God just lets you go to hell bc thats where you want to be.
It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place
Anonymous
12/27/2014 21:49
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:God gave humans 'good dreams'
" I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions ..." See more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan4.html
About why I believe in God? Because I believe - in the bones of my bones- in absolute Good and Evil (not socially constructed) and without a God is hard (impossible) to justify that.
Why Christianity? Because it is the only religion I know of that at least claims that God came down to suffer with us.
About evil& suffering-the only really big argument agaist God IMO- if God is big enough to be mad at ( for not stopping evil), he is also big enough to have some reason for it. It helps that, as stated above, according to Christianity, He came down to take a share of it, so it's not like he was all talk.
And if we don't appreciate it, he sends us to burn in hell for ETERNITY
I subscribe to the idea that we are all going to be with God, if we want to. Some will prefer Hell to God. Read 'The Great Divorce' to see what I mean.
It doesn't rally matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place
Oh right -- we should read a whole book to understand your great wisdom
It's very very short book! And yes, it is fiction- so what? (for the other poster who complains about that). There is truth in fiction books.
Also, I told you in brief what I mean: most theologians dont have a fire and brimstone view of hell. It is most like a choice that turns into an addition: God is like getting clean to an alcoholic, first you dont want to, then you cant. In this view, God just lets you go to hell bc thats where you want to be.
Anonymous
12/27/2014 21:31
Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:God gave humans 'good dreams'
" I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions ..." See more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan4.html
About why I believe in God? Because I believe - in the bones of my bones- in absolute Good and Evil (not socially constructed) and without a God is hard (impossible) to justify that.
Why Christianity? Because it is the only religion I know of that at least claims that God came down to suffer with us.
About evil& suffering-the only really big argument agaist God IMO- if God is big enough to be mad at ( for not stopping evil), he is also big enough to have some reason for it. It helps that, as stated above, according to Christianity, He came down to take a share of it, so it's not like he was all talk.
And if we don't appreciate it, he sends us to burn in hell for ETERNITY
I subscribe to the idea that we are all going to be with God, if we want to. Some will prefer Hell to God. Read 'The Great Divorce' to see what I mean.
Oh right -- we should read a whole book to understand your great wisdom
It's very very short book! And yes, it is fiction- so what? (for the other poster who complains about that). There is truth in fiction books.
Also, I told you in brief what I mean: most theologians dont have a fire and brimstone view of hell. It is most like a choice that turns into an addition: God is like getting clean to an alcoholic, first you dont want to, then you cant. In this view, God just lets you go to hell bc thats where you want to be.