Anonymous
07/15/2014 08:40
Subject: Re:Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your inspiring sounding percentages are pretty much irrelevant to most parents on the Hill these days.
Lafayette, in Upper NW, is 2-3% FARMS and had a 92% DC-CAS pass rate in 2014. The tests are so easy that when upper middle-income kids taken them in droves, you see pass rates in the high 80s and low 90s.
I'd be thrilled about L-T serving low SES AA kids as well as it does if those kids were the majority in our Stanton Park neighborhood. Far from it.
Lafayette
Reading:
63% proficient
27% advanced
Math:
39% proficient
53% advanced
Except that hill parents would not be comparing Ludlow to Lafayette but to watkins, maury, payne, etc. Or to charters
Anonymous
07/15/2014 07:51
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:my DC was at Watkins for 4th & 5th. Two classrooms of "diverse" students were recombined for academic subjects so there was an upper and lower group. At SH for 6th, 1 of 5 classes was "honors" so that top 20% were together. Just finished 6th in 2013-14 year, I believe the first year of an honors section at SH.
Not true at all. Watkins departmentalizes so the kids switch for reading and math, but we do not track kids. I wish we did, but we don't. Each year teachers make class lists that have to be have the entire range of learners in the classroom.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 06:08
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
my DC was at Watkins for 4th & 5th. Two classrooms of "diverse" students were recombined for academic subjects so there was an upper and lower group. At SH for 6th, 1 of 5 classes was "honors" so that top 20% were together. Just finished 6th in 2013-14 year, I believe the first year of an honors section at SH.
Anonymous
07/15/2014 05:24
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why parents are so obsessed with pull outs. If the teacher is capable of giving children differentiated materials inside the classroom does it matter if the kid is doing appropriately challenging materials in their classroom or down the hall? I swear I think it is a status thing than anything else
Another school in Virginia has a system where they pair two teachers together with a reading specialist, special education teacher or ESOL teacher (depends on the classroom) so that way they have a more robust group of students to group by ability. So if there was only two advanced students in the class they might go across the hall for part of their reading time to work with similarly advanced peers.
You don't have a kid in the upper grades at a Hill public school, do you? Giving children differentiated materials inside the classroom isn't nearly enough for "advanced" kids at diverse schools like Watkins, where students who haven't acquired basic skills in failing DCPS schools lottery into the upper grades. DCPS isn't in the habit of providing the staff support to help teachers differentiate effectively; they definitely don't have a system of pairing teachers together. It's all hit and miss with what a school principal will do for upper grades advanced learners.
Anonymous
07/14/2014 16:42
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
I'm not sure why parents are so obsessed with pull outs. If the teacher is capable of giving children differentiated materials inside the classroom does it matter if the kid is doing appropriately challenging materials in their classroom or down the hall? I swear I think it is a status thing than anything else
Another school in Virginia has a system where they pair two teachers together with a reading specialist, special education teacher or ESOL teacher (depends on the classroom) so that way they have a more robust group of students to group by ability. So if there was only two advanced students in the class they might go across the hall for part of their reading time to work with similarly advanced peers.
Another school in Virginia has a system where they pair two teachers together with a reading specialist, special education teacher or ESOL teacher (depends on the classroom) so that way they have a more robust group of students to group by ability. So if there was only two advanced students in the class they might go across the hall for part of their reading time to work with similarly advanced peers.
Anonymous
07/14/2014 11:45
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
I wonder if the PTA parents involved in the choice of the principal asked her about her interest in having pull-outs.., does anyone know?
Anonymous
07/14/2014 10:54
Subject: Re:Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Watkins was asked to have pull-outs or some kind of G & T program, and the answer to that was "hell no" and we already handle different levels in the same classroom (differentiating). The problem is that when you have extremes, those in the middle or on the upper end get disregarded because the teacher is trying to keep order and assist those on the bottom. DCPS believes in catering to the bottom. That's why charters will ultimately take over.
Maybe if your new principal actually wants to try pull-outs, you'll actually be able to try it. But then you'd have a hell of a good principal trying to make it all work.
Maybe if your new principal actually wants to try pull-outs, you'll actually be able to try it. But then you'd have a hell of a good principal trying to make it all work.
Anonymous
07/14/2014 09:54
Subject: Re:Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
One problem is that ib Cluster parents have spoiled DCPS on the neighborhood buy-in issue for years. They've put up with not having consistent access to pull-out groups. Now that the language immersion charters and a few others that are especially middle-class friendly, e.g. 2 Rivers and IT, are providing competition, Watkins can no longer avoid the subject. A new generation of gentrifiers is pickier than the traditional Cluster parents and won't accept no for an answer on ability grouping in the upper grades.
The new LT principal is about to learn this. What fun for her!
The new LT principal is about to learn this. What fun for her!
Anonymous
07/14/2014 07:53
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:'Best practices' ?
The point was that some children might need more than just 'best practices'. Like for example, free laundry service at school if you live in a shelter and your mum can not get you clean clothes as needed.
No wonder there is resistance to pull-outs...it's like asking for cosmetic surgery at the ER.
No way, pull-outs are more like asking for an ER treating specific problems that crop up all the time, precisely the ones you need for your children to heal.
Without pull-outs in a diverse school, many upper grades high SES kids aren't going to be challenged. I can't count the number of neighborhood families I've talked to over the years who've left Watkins, and DCPS, mainly for lack of pull-out groups and other forms of ability grouping (e.g. grouping the kids who score advanced on the DC-CAS in the same classes, which DCPS almost never does) in grades 3-5.
The fact that poor kids need more than "best practices" schools can provide is neither here nor there on the issue of pull-outs. I that hope a new generation of L-T neighborhood parents in the lower grades works with the principal to plan ahead for pull-outs. If they have to raise money to hire a math tutor to provide advanced instruction from 3rd grade, like the Brent parents did, they should get going ASAP.
Anonymous
07/14/2014 05:01
Subject: Re:Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:Your inspiring sounding percentages are pretty much irrelevant to most parents on the Hill these days.
Lafayette, in Upper NW, is 2-3% FARMS and had a 92% DC-CAS pass rate in 2014. The tests are so easy that when upper middle-income kids taken them in droves, you see pass rates in the high 80s and low 90s.
I'd be thrilled about L-T serving low SES AA kids as well as it does if those kids were the majority in our Stanton Park neighborhood. Far from it.
Lafayette
Reading:
63% proficient
27% advanced
Math:
39% proficient
53% advanced
Anonymous
07/14/2014 03:10
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
'Best practices' ?
The point was that some children might need more than just 'best practices'. Like for example, free laundry service at school if you live in a shelter and your mum can not get you clean clothes as needed.
No wonder there is resistance to pull-outs...it's like asking for cosmetic surgery at the ER.
The point was that some children might need more than just 'best practices'. Like for example, free laundry service at school if you live in a shelter and your mum can not get you clean clothes as needed.
No wonder there is resistance to pull-outs...it's like asking for cosmetic surgery at the ER.
Anonymous
07/14/2014 00:15
Subject: Re:Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Your inspiring sounding percentages are pretty much irrelevant to most parents on the Hill these days.
Lafayette, in Upper NW, is 2-3% FARMS and had a 92% DC-CAS pass rate in 2014. The tests are so easy that when upper middle-income kids taken them in droves, you see pass rates in the high 80s and low 90s.
I'd be thrilled about L-T serving low SES AA kids as well as it does if those kids were the majority in our Stanton Park neighborhood. Far from it.
Lafayette, in Upper NW, is 2-3% FARMS and had a 92% DC-CAS pass rate in 2014. The tests are so easy that when upper middle-income kids taken them in droves, you see pass rates in the high 80s and low 90s.
I'd be thrilled about L-T serving low SES AA kids as well as it does if those kids were the majority in our Stanton Park neighborhood. Far from it.
Anonymous
07/13/2014 20:12
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Ludlow-Taylor+Elementary+School
Your numbers are wrong.
Math:
32% advanced
32% proficient
ELA:
25% advanced
44% proficient
It would also be helpful to get a definition for each of the DC CAS levels, but can't that type of document right now.
Your numbers are wrong.
Math:
32% advanced
32% proficient
ELA:
25% advanced
44% proficient
It would also be helpful to get a definition for each of the DC CAS levels, but can't that type of document right now.
Anonymous
07/13/2014 19:55
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am fairly close, as neighbors can be, with my low-SES neighbors. I have tutored for free a few of the kids that they watch over while their mums work 2 or 3 low paying jobs.
They do value education in general terms, and that's why they asked me if I could help the kids with homework...but that is the extent of it.
For example, I see the kids milling about after school while the relatives who are supposed to watch over them drink beer and play cards in the middle if the afternoon. One day one of the kids was complaining it was too hot and he was bored (I was going to the store and said hi, how are you). I suggested he could ask his aunt to take him to the museum - it's free and their is AC there. He hardly knew what a museum was and that idea had never occurred to anybody there. We live close to the metro and it would not have been that hard to do...I can help a little but can't be a parent to all!
So, people like this should just . . . get up and get out? And go . . .where?
To a school that can serve their needs best. LT is one of them, thanks to the excellent effort by Cobbs and teachers, from what I read here; now however, it appears that the IB patents want LT to cater to their needs, not the low-SES kids anymore. It is really really hard to do that. I don't want to send the current kids anywhere (besides I live on the Hill but my baby is only 6mo old, and I am not immediately concerned with the issue) but overtime the new classes will be of a different SES composition, and what's worked in the past might not work anymore.
I think studies suggest that poor kids benefit from being around high-SES kids in school up to a certain threshold (20-30%). After that, it is actually better to be in a school that caters to only low-SES needs. The problem with the gentrifying schools is that some are trending towards at a 'mix' that is not good for anyone. I have taught briefly and there is nothing more challenging than a class with a bi-modal distribution in skills/knowledge (granted I was not a great teacher).
The research puts the limit at around 18-20%. (Montgomery County, MD, Wake County, NC) After that point you have bi-modal populations and inability to change norms of behavior. Schools with populations greater than 20% FARM struggle to get high SES families. While there are one or two charters in DC with higher FARM populations and diverse racial population (e.g. Cap City) the charters have an advantage because their FARM population can be purged of the super-disruptive behavioral problems who can be sent back to DCPS.
Forget where the research puts it -- look at the performance at LT. The school is doing a great job educating kids. With all the back and forth about IB/OOB, high and low SES, how behavior problems are distributed, no one has disputed that. The central issue with Cobbs was that some parents (many -- but not all! -- white) didn't like how she dealt with *parents*. There is a consensus that she hired and effectively supported really good teachers. The behavior stats aren't the best ever, but -- playground anecdotes aside -- they aren't terrible, either.
It really bugs me when people pull in all sorts of studies about whether or not G&T/differentiation is better or what level of low-SES kids is ideal (which somehow doesn't address what to do with all the "extra" low-SES kids when the number in the school-age population exceeds the ideal percentage), instead of looking at the actual school and how it's doing.
Newsflash: It's doing well. I hope it will continue to do well under the new prinicpal, if only because people will stop being distracted by their personal dislike of Cobbs.
43% proficient in reading and math is not "doing a great job."
Anonymous
07/13/2014 19:45
Subject: Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal
Anonymous wrote:
Forget where the research puts it -- look at the performance at LT. The school is doing a great job educating kids. With all the back and forth about IB/OOB, high and low SES, how behavior problems are distributed, no one has disputed that. The central issue with Cobbs was that some parents (many -- but not all! -- white) didn't like how she dealt with *parents*. There is a consensus that she hired and effectively supported really good teachers. The behavior stats aren't the best ever, but -- playground anecdotes aside -- they aren't terrible, either.
It really bugs me when people pull in all sorts of studies about whether or not G&T/differentiation is better or what level of low-SES kids is ideal (which somehow doesn't address what to do with all the "extra" low-SES kids when the number in the school-age population exceeds the ideal percentage), instead of looking at the actual school and how it's doing.
Newsflash: It's doing well. I hope it will continue to do well under the new prinicpal, if only because people will stop being distracted by their personal dislike of Cobbs.
Right, forget about all that silly research. Let's assume that L-T is indeed the model school you describe, with great discipline and first-rate instruction. Let's also assume that "personal dislike" of Cobbs has been the major impediment to in-boundary participation. So we are to expect in-boundary parents of all colors and classes to flood every elementary grade six weeks hence?
Last summer, when I asked Cobbs if she'd be willing to ask her upper grades teachers to organize pullout groups for advanced kids her reply amounted to "no way in hell." She explained in all seriousness that L-T would "never need" pullout groups because her teachers were "world class." You and she are mired in relativism. I vote for "majority in-boundary" as our working metric for "doing well."