Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

The heats are circle seeded at regionals so most of this evens out. I’m just not buying a kid who swam only prelims was going to go from the 20th seed to a top 5 seed in the region such that there would be a huge discrepancy in their lane placement in prelims at regionals.

If a swimmer is top seeded they get an inner lane in one of the last three heats. So there is always an advantage. Circle seeding helps the slower swimmers to push for time drops. I love how multiple people have tried to explain to you seed time and you are the only person that is like, "nah, bro, I just don't see it."

You are hilarious.

Happy to entertain but I understand perfectly well how seeding works. 🙄 No one has explained how the timed final at districts had such an egregious impact on a swimmer’s seeding such that it would have a real impact on lane placement at regionals, since no one is claiming that timed finals resulted in a kid getting the 20th seed for regionals when if they had done prelims/finals they would have gone fast enough to get the 5th seed. If that was the case I would agree that the lane placement difference is real (that would be lane 5 versus lane 1). Since you don’t seem to understand, let me spell this out for you. If you are seeded 20th and feel like you could have gone faster in finals and say gotten the 15th seed, you are still in the circle seeded heats and instead of being in the 1st circle seeded heat in lane 2 as the 15th seed, you are in the 2nd circle seeded heat in lane 1 as the 20th seed. That is not a meaningful difference.

When you go 5 seconds off your best club time and will now NOT be seeded at Regionals in the fastest heat, it matters that you didn’t get a chance to swim again the following day like 1/2 the kids in the region.

What part of circle seeding are people not understanding? The top 24 kids are distributed evenly in the last 3 heats, there is no real “fastest heat”. And if a swimmer didn’t make the top 24, I don’t know that a second swim would have made a difference in the grand scheme of things. The kids that swam timed finals knew it was their one and only chance, so if you add 5 seconds in that swim at some point you need to look in the mirror and stop blaming external factors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone ever hear back from FCPS and the emails written?

Negative. They completely ignored it.

But we are in National and Patriot ended up also doing timed finals so there was parity. My guess, they view that as a non-issue.

I would be hot if I was in Concorde who did timed finals against Liberty who did prelims/finals. With Liberty youcan definitely see more time drops in finals because they got that second splash.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

The heats are circle seeded at regionals so most of this evens out. I’m just not buying a kid who swam only prelims was going to go from the 20th seed to a top 5 seed in the region such that there would be a huge discrepancy in their lane placement in prelims at regionals.

If a swimmer is top seeded they get an inner lane in one of the last three heats. So there is always an advantage. Circle seeding helps the slower swimmers to push for time drops. I love how multiple people have tried to explain to you seed time and you are the only person that is like, "nah, bro, I just don't see it."

You are hilarious.

Happy to entertain but I understand perfectly well how seeding works. 🙄 No one has explained how the timed final at districts had such an egregious impact on a swimmer’s seeding such that it would have a real impact on lane placement at regionals, since no one is claiming that timed finals resulted in a kid getting the 20th seed for regionals when if they had done prelims/finals they would have gone fast enough to get the 5th seed. If that was the case I would agree that the lane placement difference is real (that would be lane 5 versus lane 1). Since you don’t seem to understand, let me spell this out for you. If you are seeded 20th and feel like you could have gone faster in finals and say gotten the 15th seed, you are still in the circle seeded heats and instead of being in the 1st circle seeded heat in lane 2 as the 15th seed, you are in the 2nd circle seeded heat in lane 1 as the 20th seed. That is not a meaningful difference.

When you go 5 seconds off your best club time and will now NOT be seeded at Regionals in the fastest heat, it matters that you didn’t get a chance to swim again the following day like 1/2 the kids in the region.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

The heats are circle seeded at regionals so most of this evens out. I’m just not buying a kid who swam only prelims was going to go from the 20th seed to a top 5 seed in the region such that there would be a huge discrepancy in their lane placement in prelims at regionals.

If a swimmer is top seeded they get an inner lane in one of the last three heats. So there is always an advantage. Circle seeding helps the slower swimmers to push for time drops. I love how multiple people have tried to explain to you seed time and you are the only person that is like, "nah, bro, I just don't see it."

You are hilarious.

Happy to entertain but I understand perfectly well how seeding works. 🙄 No one has explained how the timed final at districts had such an egregious impact on a swimmer’s seeding such that it would have a real impact on lane placement at regionals, since no one is claiming that timed finals resulted in a kid getting the 20th seed for regionals when if they had done prelims/finals they would have gone fast enough to get the 5th seed. If that was the case I would agree that the lane placement difference is real (that would be lane 5 versus lane 1). Since you don’t seem to understand, let me spell this out for you. If you are seeded 20th and feel like you could have gone faster in finals and say gotten the 15th seed, you are still in the circle seeded heats and instead of being in the 1st circle seeded heat in lane 2 as the 15th seed, you are in the 2nd circle seeded heat in lane 1 as the 20th seed. That is not a meaningful difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

The heats are circle seeded at regionals so most of this evens out. I’m just not buying a kid who swam only prelims was going to go from the 20th seed to a top 5 seed in the region such that there would be a huge discrepancy in their lane placement in prelims at regionals.

If a swimmer is top seeded they get an inner lane in one of the last three heats. So there is always an advantage. Circle seeding helps the slower swimmers to push for time drops. I love how multiple people have tried to explain to you seed time and you are the only person that is like, "nah, bro, I just don't see it."

You are hilarious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

The heats are circle seeded at regionals so most of this evens out. I’m just not buying a kid who swam only prelims was going to go from the 20th seed to a top 5 seed in the region such that there would be a huge discrepancy in their lane placement in prelims at regionals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

If a swimmer is top seeded they get an inner lane in one of the last three heats. So there is always an advantage. Circle seeding helps the slower swimmers to push for time drops. I love how multiple people have tried to explain to you seed time and you are the only person that is like, "nah, bro, I just don't see it."

You are hilarious.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

The heats are circle seeded at regionals so most of this evens out. I’m just not buying a kid who swam only prelims was going to go from the 20th seed to a top 5 seed in the region such that there would be a huge discrepancy in their lane placement in prelims at regionals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Seed time is impacted greatly if swimmers get second opportunities. This creates the issue. By allowing half of the region to get an advantage is not fair to the half did not. It does not impact all swimmers and maybe your swimmer swims their best during prelims - so that second chance is not a huge deal. I have a swimmer that 98% of the time drops major time in finals. And generally significant drops. They just can fix the prelim race and make it better at finals. So not to have that opportunity means a major seeding error at regionals. They are now put in a slower heat when they would have made a faster one. That is the disadvantage. How can you not understand that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

I get it, my swimmer is currently .1 off of a sectional cut. This argument is being conflated because originally people were arguing that the way districts were run will make the regional meet unfair and I am just not seeing it. I completely agree that individual kids that missed state cuts by tenths or hundredths were disadvantaged if they only swam timed finals, but that is an individual disadvantage not something that is making the regional meet inherently unfair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

NP. 0.01 is huge. Ask my swimmer who missed the State cut by that amount. Or the boy trying for the school record who also missed it by that much. If you are a swimmer or understand swimming, you understand the issue.

Anonymous wrote:I think you're downplaying the mental effect of seeding. As a former collegiate swimmer myself, it can make a drastic difference in performance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

It's not an exaggeration, it's relative. Is .01 a huge difference, no? Is it a huge difference for a top tier swimmer seeded 1-4th, not really. Does it start to matter more as you go down the seed, yes. Is it a huge difference to the kid who came in 11th at districts and didn't get a second shot, YES.

But that’s relative to other swimmers in their district, how other district meets were run is irrelevant on that point. If you came in 11th at districts a second swim was not going to vault you to a top time such that not only would you have made regionals, but your seeding at regionals would be that much different. Certainly having a second swim is helpful, but all swimmers in that district were in the same position, and it doesn’t impact the fairness of the regional meet itself.

Liberty parent just stop. You’re trying to justify the advantage that your swimmers received.

Tell my swimmer about how he was treated the same as everyone else in their district when he was .03 sec off a state cut. A finals swim would definitely have been beneficial for him. Meanwhile his friends in other districts made their cuts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lasting impact is because this is a sport where the smallest margins matter. Having a lower seed, outside lane, slower heat, makes a huge difference when the competition comes down to .01
In addition to that, this was a week where most things were cancelled. My son isn't an elite club swimmer, but is a very good high school swimmer. He didn't have practice all week. He made didn't make regionals cut time - but will be in due to being in the top. He was very close though and knowing him, given an extra day and the knowledge of needing the extra push, he would have gotten it done.

Saying it makes a “huge” difference is a bit of an exaggeration.

It's not an exaggeration, it's relative. Is .01 a huge difference, no? Is it a huge difference for a top tier swimmer seeded 1-4th, not really. Does it start to matter more as you go down the seed, yes. Is it a huge difference to the kid who came in 11th at districts and didn't get a second shot, YES.

But that’s relative to other swimmers in their district, how other district meets were run is irrelevant on that point. If you came in 11th at districts a second swim was not going to vault you to a top time such that not only would you have made regionals, but your seeding at regionals would be that much different. Certainly having a second swim is helpful, but all swimmers in that district were in the same position, and it doesn’t impact the fairness of the regional meet itself.