Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

It's very popular at the more affluent schools. It's traditionally been a way that wealthy schools can confer an advantage for special programs like TJ and exclude students from the less wealthy schools.

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignore the trolls lying about "many other countries" they know nothing about. They are same ones who think their $300-$1M annual HHI is "middle class"

Most of the world is done with geometry and single variable algebra before high school. Just Asia is like 60% of the world.

Then why do asian universities start with calculus, instead of assuming students learned it in high school? Surely 4+ years is enou to learn at least that?

I didn't know about the rest of Asia but calculus level math is frequently taken in 11th grade in Korea.

Korean students start calculus in 11th, but they end up covering about the same content as Calculus AB. AP Statistics and Physics C are above what’s taught in Korea, so a motivated student in US learns more advanced material than whatever Asian countries like Korea, Japan, China and India do. And that’s without insane cram schools open late at night and with students having meaningful extracurriculars they care about. Also Asian students are not “done” with “single variable Algebra” by high school, whatever you think that is.

Pretty sure Korean science track students learn about L'Hopitals rule, parametric and polar equations, integration by parts, and volumes of revolution. Those are all BC topics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignore the trolls lying about "many other countries" they know nothing about. They are same ones who think their $300-$1M annual HHI is "middle class"

Most of the world is done with geometry and single variable algebra before high school. Just Asia is like 60% of the world.

Then why do asian universities start with calculus, instead of assuming students learned it in high school? Surely 4+ years is enou to learn at least that?

I didn't know about the rest of Asia but calculus level math is frequently taken in 11th grade in Korea.

Korean students start calculus in 11th, but they end up covering about the same content as Calculus AB. AP Statistics and Physics C are above what’s taught in Korea, so a motivated student in US learns more advanced material than whatever Asian countries like Korea, Japan, China and India do. And that’s without insane cram schools open late at night and with students having meaningful extracurriculars they care about. Also Asian students are not “done” with “single variable Algebra” by high school, whatever you think that is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignore the trolls lying about "many other countries" they know nothing about. They are same ones who think their $300-$1M annual HHI is "middle class"

Most of the world is done with geometry and single variable algebra before high school. Just Asia is like 60% of the world.

Then why do asian universities start with calculus, instead of assuming students learned it in high school? Surely 4+ years is enou to learn at least that?

I didn't know about the rest of Asia but calculus level math is frequently taken in 11th grade in Korea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignore the trolls lying about "many other countries" they know nothing about. They are same ones who think their $300-$1M annual HHI is "middle class"

Most of the world is done with geometry and single variable algebra before high school. Just Asia is like 60% of the world.

Then why do asian universities start with calculus, instead of assuming students learned it in high school? Surely 4+ years is enou to learn at least that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignore the trolls lying about "many other countries" they know nothing about. They are same ones who think their $300-$1M annual HHI is "middle class"

Most of the world is done with geometry and single variable algebra before high school. Just Asia is like 60% of the world.

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to offer a different perspective with some anectodal data from the Midwest. Our HS school district is hardly the most competitive in the area, but ~50 seniors out of a class of ~750 took MV Calculus/Linear Algebra this past year after having taken Calculus AB or BC junior year. Approx. 4 seniors had already taken MVC/LA and either didn't take math this year or took higher math through college programs.

At the middle school level, 25 7th graders out of ~150 took Algebra 1 this year and two 7th graders took Geometry.

The vast majority of the kids on these tracks enjoy math and would be bored in lower level classes. Also, these kids run the gamut: some are passionate about math and seek out outside enrichment opportunities; others are high-level athletes and have other interests and are just really good at math.

It's curious that so many people on this thread are arguing about what is accelerated vs. normal when the real issue is that the arms race in math is unavoidable, especially with so many bright international students vying for a spot at US universities. The parents who are arguing that acceleration is a "race to nowhere" are rightly afraid that their children will struggle to keep up with the top of the class. But clearly, there are many American kids who can handle and even relish the opportunity to learn higher math alongside their peers in high school and middle school. America needs to keep offering these opportunities in order to keep up our global competitiveness. If kids can handle it (I'm all for testing in), let them accelerate.

90% of students who take MV in high school will not actually need MV in their career. What is the fuss about?

90% of students who take trigonometry in high school will not actually need trigonometry in their career. What is the fuss about?

90% of students who take Algebra 2 in high school will not actually need trigonometry in their career. What is the fuss about?

Algebra 2 topics: polynomial arithmetic, complex numbers, rational and radical expressions, quadratic, and logarithmic functions.

I tell my kid this all the time. I needed the math to get into college, I needed the math to get into grad school, I needed the math on my transcripts to be eligible for my job/ career path, but in my job I rarely use any HS level math...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to offer a different perspective with some anectodal data from the Midwest. Our HS school district is hardly the most competitive in the area, but ~50 seniors out of a class of ~750 took MV Calculus/Linear Algebra this past year after having taken Calculus AB or BC junior year. Approx. 4 seniors had already taken MVC/LA and either didn't take math this year or took higher math through college programs.

At the middle school level, 25 7th graders out of ~150 took Algebra 1 this year and two 7th graders took Geometry.

The vast majority of the kids on these tracks enjoy math and would be bored in lower level classes. Also, these kids run the gamut: some are passionate about math and seek out outside enrichment opportunities; others are high-level athletes and have other interests and are just really good at math.

It's curious that so many people on this thread are arguing about what is accelerated vs. normal when the real issue is that the arms race in math is unavoidable, especially with so many bright international students vying for a spot at US universities. The parents who are arguing that acceleration is a "race to nowhere" are rightly afraid that their children will struggle to keep up with the top of the class. But clearly, there are many American kids who can handle and even relish the opportunity to learn higher math alongside their peers in high school and middle school. America needs to keep offering these opportunities in order to keep up our global competitiveness. If kids can handle it (I'm all for testing in), let them accelerate.

90% of students who take MV in high school will not actually need MV in their career. What is the fuss about?

90% of students who take trigonometry in high school will not actually need trigonometry in their career. What is the fuss about?

90% of students who take Algebra 2 in high school will not actually need trigonometry in their career. What is the fuss about?

Algebra 2 topics: polynomial arithmetic, complex numbers, rational and radical expressions, quadratic, and logarithmic functions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to offer a different perspective with some anectodal data from the Midwest. Our HS school district is hardly the most competitive in the area, but ~50 seniors out of a class of ~750 took MV Calculus/Linear Algebra this past year after having taken Calculus AB or BC junior year. Approx. 4 seniors had already taken MVC/LA and either didn't take math this year or took higher math through college programs.

At the middle school level, 25 7th graders out of ~150 took Algebra 1 this year and two 7th graders took Geometry.

The vast majority of the kids on these tracks enjoy math and would be bored in lower level classes. Also, these kids run the gamut: some are passionate about math and seek out outside enrichment opportunities; others are high-level athletes and have other interests and are just really good at math.

It's curious that so many people on this thread are arguing about what is accelerated vs. normal when the real issue is that the arms race in math is unavoidable, especially with so many bright international students vying for a spot at US universities. The parents who are arguing that acceleration is a "race to nowhere" are rightly afraid that their children will struggle to keep up with the top of the class. But clearly, there are many American kids who can handle and even relish the opportunity to learn higher math alongside their peers in high school and middle school. America needs to keep offering these opportunities in order to keep up our global competitiveness. If kids can handle it (I'm all for testing in), let them accelerate.

90% of students who take MV in high school will not actually need MV in their career. What is the fuss about?

90% of students who take trigonometry in high school will not actually need trigonometry in their career. What is the fuss about?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to offer a different perspective with some anectodal data from the Midwest. Our HS school district is hardly the most competitive in the area, but ~50 seniors out of a class of ~750 took MV Calculus/Linear Algebra this past year after having taken Calculus AB or BC junior year. Approx. 4 seniors had already taken MVC/LA and either didn't take math this year or took higher math through college programs.

At the middle school level, 25 7th graders out of ~150 took Algebra 1 this year and two 7th graders took Geometry.

The vast majority of the kids on these tracks enjoy math and would be bored in lower level classes. Also, these kids run the gamut: some are passionate about math and seek out outside enrichment opportunities; others are high-level athletes and have other interests and are just really good at math.

It's curious that so many people on this thread are arguing about what is accelerated vs. normal when the real issue is that the arms race in math is unavoidable, especially with so many bright international students vying for a spot at US universities. The parents who are arguing that acceleration is a "race to nowhere" are rightly afraid that their children will struggle to keep up with the top of the class. But clearly, there are many American kids who can handle and even relish the opportunity to learn higher math alongside their peers in high school and middle school. America needs to keep offering these opportunities in order to keep up our global competitiveness. If kids can handle it (I'm all for testing in), let them accelerate.

90% of students who take MV in high school will not actually need MV in their career. What is the fuss about?

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to offer a different perspective with some anectodal data from the Midwest. Our HS school district is hardly the most competitive in the area, but ~50 seniors out of a class of ~750 took MV Calculus/Linear Algebra this past year after having taken Calculus AB or BC junior year. Approx. 4 seniors had already taken MVC/LA and either didn't take math this year or took higher math through college programs.

At the middle school level, 25 7th graders out of ~150 took Algebra 1 this year and two 7th graders took Geometry.

The vast majority of the kids on these tracks enjoy math and would be bored in lower level classes. Also, these kids run the gamut: some are passionate about math and seek out outside enrichment opportunities; others are high-level athletes and have other interests and are just really good at math.

It's curious that so many people on this thread are arguing about what is accelerated vs. normal when the real issue is that the arms race in math is unavoidable, especially with so many bright international students vying for a spot at US universities. The parents who are arguing that acceleration is a "race to nowhere" are rightly afraid that their children will struggle to keep up with the top of the class. But clearly, there are many American kids who can handle and even relish the opportunity to learn higher math alongside their peers in high school and middle school. America needs to keep offering these opportunities in order to keep up our global competitiveness. If kids can handle it (I'm all for testing in), let them accelerate.

Anonymous wrote:I wanted to offer a different perspective with some anectodal data from the Midwest. Our HS school district is hardly the most competitive in the area, but ~50 seniors out of a class of ~750 took MV Calculus/Linear Algebra this past year after having taken Calculus AB or BC junior year. Approx. 4 seniors had already taken MVC/LA and either didn't take math this year or took higher math through college programs.

At the middle school level, 25 7th graders out of ~150 took Algebra 1 this year and two 7th graders took Geometry.

The vast majority of the kids on these tracks enjoy math and would be bored in lower level classes. Also, these kids run the gamut: some are passionate about math and seek out outside enrichment opportunities; others are high-level athletes and have other interests and are just really good at math.

It's curious that so many people on this thread are arguing about what is accelerated vs. normal when the real issue is that the arms race in math is unavoidable, especially with so many bright international students vying for a spot at US universities. The parents who are arguing that acceleration is a "race to nowhere" are rightly afraid that their children will struggle to keep up with the top of the class. But clearly, there are many American kids who can handle and even relish the opportunity to learn higher math alongside their peers in high school and middle school. America needs to keep offering these opportunities in order to keep up our global competitiveness. If kids can handle it (I'm all for testing in), let them accelerate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just ignore the trolls lying about "many other countries" they know nothing about. They are same ones who think their $300-$1M annual HHI is "middle class"

What those people fail to fully grasp, is that many of the countries where the majority of HS are advanced in Math and Science track students starting in ES and they don't educate every student in the country. The scores that we see are the scores of the kids who made it through 2-3 levels of testing that allowed them to attend a college prep HS. We don't see the scores of the kids who are weeded out of those tracks in ES or MS or the kids who never attended school. While the scores in the US represent the scores of all students in the US, regardless of ability and or likelihood of attending college in the future.

Europe does this, there are tests in 5th year, which I think is the equivalent of 4th grade in the US, to determine what school you attend for MS and HS. Kids who don't do well on those tests are sent to schools that lead to votech schools, kids who score high enough on them are sent to schools that are all college prep. Kids at the college prep MS/HS can be moved to the votech schools if their grades drop. The ones who do well enough in their classes will sit their A levels.

I know that South Korea, Japan, and China have kids take tests in ES and MS and HS for promotion and that those tests are stressful.

We are not comparing apples and oranges when we compare the US scores to the rest of the worlds.

irrelevant world detour.

In FCPS, Algebra 1 by 8th grade is considered gen ed, while AAP students enroll in Geometry in 8th, and advanced students complete Algebra 2 by that time.

"All eighth grade students can enroll in Algebra or Algebra Honors. There are no pre-requisites."

But some schools are better at providing these options than others. Let's just be honest here.