Op here. This kid ended up getting in off multiple T10 waitlists this year.

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Anonymous wrote:My kid! Waitlisted at UVA and NEU. 3.98/4.5, 1560. 9 APs/2 DE. CS major. He did NOT take AP lang/lit. I'm sure that was the killer. Really hoping that 760V and A's in honors would have helped. Oh well. Kid is happy
Direct admit to UMD with Honors placement and merit.

You mentioned nothing about ECs, job, leadership, etc. maybe that was the problem.

UMD with merit.

What problem?

UMD CS with merit AND Honors. No problem at all!

One of the very top CS programs in the country. I realize now they are from Virginia and had their hearts set on Virginia for sentimental reasons. But what a consolation prize.

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Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That implies they deserve the spot more than the kid who got in. But universities aren't using just those numbers as criteria.

A kid who showed themselves to be an interesting, curious, creative, passionate thinker could be screwed because the university admitted a robotic, soulless striver with higher test scores and GPA than them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid! Waitlisted at UVA and NEU. 3.98/4.5, 1560. 9 APs/2 DE. CS major. He did NOT take AP lang/lit. I'm sure that was the killer. Really hoping that 760V and A's in honors would have helped. Oh well. Kid is happy
Direct admit to UMD with Honors placement and merit.

You mentioned nothing about ECs, job, leadership, etc. maybe that was the problem.

UMD with merit.

What problem?

UMD CS with merit AND Honors. No problem at all!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid! Waitlisted at UVA and NEU. 3.98/4.5, 1560. 9 APs/2 DE. CS major. He did NOT take AP lang/lit. I'm sure that was the killer. Really hoping that 760V and A's in honors would have helped. Oh well. Kid is happy
Direct admit to UMD with Honors placement and merit.

You mentioned nothing about ECs, job, leadership, etc. maybe that was the problem.

UMD with merit.

What problem?

Anonymous wrote:No. My kid had a top GPA and scores, but was lacking in ECs, and he went to GWU for International Affairs. I do not consider that a fail. He's happy there. Some top students from MCPS are going to UMD, and saving a mint of money. Not a fail either.

You're right. Going to two excellent universities is certainly not a fail. I would be elated if my child could get in them (and afford GWU).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

The thing is, those stats - particularly high test scores, valedictorian, class pres, and varsity captain - are run of the mill, especially at Ivy League and other reach schools. Their acceptance rates these days are less than 10%. They could fill multiple first year classes with students with those credentials - and those first year classes would be so, so boring. Much more interesting are those students with "demonstrably lower stats" (test scores?) who scored well enough to be somewhat competitive, have recommendations that emphasize their drive and passion, and have unusual life experiences or activities/expertise.

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I really think if schools went back to having class rank, college decisions would make a lot more sense to parents.

Not really. You’re not competing against kids from your school but from schools across the country. Being ranked in the top 10 at your school guarantees nothing. Harvard rejects countless valedictorians.

Moreover, the rank will be determined purely by gpa but admissions is determined by much more. If a lower ranked kid at your school got into a better college, then that kid had something else (ECs, essay, whatever) but that higher-ranked kids parents will still be big mad about it.

Incorrect, you are always competing first with other applicants from your school.

Incorrect, you are competing with the entire country, especially to the most selective colleges.

DP

Yes you are competing with the entire world. But the first filter is you are going to be compared with your own HS peers. If you do not make this cut, everything is mute.

Nah. A school that has tens of thousands of applications is simply not going to make separate piles of applications by high school and make its first cut decision by comparing the applicants within each pile.

DP. This tells us you know absolutely nothing about the application review process. This is exactly how it's done. The first cut are applications from one school, judged against one another.

You know nothing. That’s not how it’s done at all.

Of course it is. Our school's guidance dept. had a "College 101" presentation for parents and rising seniors last year, and the first thing they said was, "Look around this room. Your biggest competition are your own classmates." This is what regional AOs sort through first - judging one school at a time. Then, once those kids are selected, they judge them against other schools, and so on.
DP

Let’s be clear holistic does not mean we are searching for the shining soul who speaks beyond their scores. Holistic means we don’t have you to tell you what data points are in and against your favor. It’s complex as the models will differ by zip code, school, demographics of the students. This is why you can no longer predict that if a wealthy white or Asian person moves to a low performing school district then they will do better in admissions than if they had stayed in their high performing school.

As to what is driving the models , its institutional viability and success.

1. Rankings matter to schools and if the rankings give points for low income, 1 st gen, URM , or people with purple hair then you better believe these systems will find proxy measures to jump over a more qualified candidate to get one who meets that need.

2. Student success, graduation rate, and overall cost of the student. Let’s say that in the past five years a high percentage of students from your high school washed out of engineering and ended up in a business major. Your kid coming along might be an amazing engineer but he isn’t getting into that school for an engineering major. The AO doesn’t know this but the enrollment management system does.

3. State incentives. Different states have different incentives. Social mobility, rural, Hispanic serving designation etc. These can have a substantial impact on who is getting admitted.

4. Yield. Again pattern matching against previous admits with similar characteristics.

5. Money. How you are going to pay makes a difference but you can’t predict how that plays out in or against your favor based on your zip code, major, past students, types of ECs etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I really think if schools went back to having class rank, college decisions would make a lot more sense to parents.

Not really. You’re not competing against kids from your school but from schools across the country. Being ranked in the top 10 at your school guarantees nothing. Harvard rejects countless valedictorians.

Moreover, the rank will be determined purely by gpa but admissions is determined by much more. If a lower ranked kid at your school got into a better college, then that kid had something else (ECs, essay, whatever) but that higher-ranked kids parents will still be big mad about it.

Incorrect, you are always competing first with other applicants from your school.

Incorrect, you are competing with the entire country, especially to the most selective colleges.

DP

Yes you are competing with the entire world. But the first filter is you are going to be compared with your own HS peers. If you do not make this cut, everything is mute.

Nah. A school that has tens of thousands of applications is simply not going to make separate piles of applications by high school and make its first cut decision by comparing the applicants within each pile.

YOu are right they aren't. But what they are going to do is do a first read by a regional AO who will read all of the Apps in their region. And they will first compare you against the others in your school and then compare you against others in your region. I'm not sure why you are pushing back against this. It makes complete sense and is well documented across forums.

What you are not hearing is that this is the way it was done when we went to college. This is not what is happening now. There are many more factors that go into whether your kid gets in, many of them you have no control over.