Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

So you've been more fortunate than most for a longer time. Can you understand why the complaining isn't getting sympathy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

A) You don't pay my salary, which is fee-funded.
B) Your payment of any fed's salary is miniscule, at best.
C) you're paying for work. If the work is getting done, the "where" is not your business. And for many feds, and all feds at my former agency, getting the work done at home worked perfectly.

None of that is fraud. You're just a bitter old hag.

I mean, I'm not the one who's bitter here. I have a fantastic close-in SFH and a 10 minute commute to my federal workplace. The nature of our work means we've been in-person all along.

It's the HR, IT and credentialing people at my agency who are bitter, because they've all been called back and will need to produce work now in a way that conforms with their PD. Their 90 minute drive and childcare stress isn't my concern.

Sure you are bitter. You're pissed someone had a better gig than you. I know I had a better gig than you. I was an attorney, making decent money, and working solely at home. I had not parking, dry cleaning, childcare, etc. issues. My bar dues were paid for. I had ISP reimbursement. And received numerous performance awards b/c I was working and working well. (And FTR, I'm in a fantastic SFH home in an amazing neighborhood that isn't Arlington, but also not an Exburb. My home is worth a million bucks and we paid about $300K for it 25 years ago and it is paid off. So, don't worry about my living arrangement, we're fine).

Trump wanted me to come back 5 days (in addition to other things that I didn't like, like the blatant illegal actions being taken) and I qualified for early retirement. So I took it. The only loss is my agency and the people who relied on me to do my work. But, as you say, that's not my concern. I'm coming out of this just fine. But you're still a bitter, nosy hag.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Not all of us commuted to the office 5 days a week pre covid. Majority of federal government employees were on a hybrid schedule.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

Every defense contractor requires badging in and out. Nothing was cushy and nothing is new or harder for you. Timecards are as old as time. Get over your stupid self.

This! My work checked all of those boxes pre, during and post Covid. And speaking of cushy, a friend who works for the FDA and is worried about losing her job/bemoaning RTO in March told me last night at our kids' basketball practice (that I practically killed myself to get home in time to get to) that today is her Friday since she "works" remote tomorrow.

This doesn’t even make sense?! What does her “Friday” even mean. Why are you upset she has managed to find a job that allows her work/life balance.

Because as a taxpayer, I (NP) shouldn’t pay for her individual luxury of “balance.” I and apparently millions of others would prefer to pay her a part-time salary and no federal benefits — because she is in fact working part time.

Whether she wants to be all-in and miss games or lean out and watch basketball doesn’t matter to me. Her fraudulence is the problem.

A) You don't pay my salary, which is fee-funded.
B) Your payment of any fed's salary is miniscule, at best.
C) you're paying for work. If the work is getting done, the "where" is not your business. And for many feds, and all feds at my former agency, getting the work done at home worked perfectly.

None of that is fraud. You're just a bitter old hag.

I mean, I'm not the one who's bitter here. I have a fantastic close-in SFH and a 10 minute commute to my federal workplace. The nature of our work means we've been in-person all along.

It's the HR, IT and credentialing people at my agency who are bitter, because they've all been called back and will need to produce work now in a way that conforms with their PD. Their 90 minute drive and childcare stress isn't my concern.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Others are managing RTO without a village just like any other parents who work in person and don’t have a village. Having kids always has been a sacrifice for most people. You just had a reprieve for a few years.

A lot of child care centers decreased their hours and enrollment during the pandemic for safety reasons and haven’t been able to staff up to increase back to pre pandemic enrollment.

Parenthood has always been difficult, but I’ll put money on this delightful remark having come from someone ignorant to the fact that there is a dwindling supply of child care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

🙋‍♀️

Pre-Covid I worked in person 40 hours a week (basically without access to the outside world) and was never able to telework and my husband was also in person 40 hours a week unable to telework. Our commutes were 30 minutes to an hour depending on traffic. In 2019, we had one child in daycare and another child in Kindergarten with before and after care. If our kids were sick or the school called us to pick them up early, one of us had to use leave to take care of the child. On days that school was out and we did not have the day off, either one of us took the day off or we used the aftercare program (it was open on teacher work days and some holidays, it still is, by the way). Our kindergartener had soccer once a week after school and both kids had swimming once a week after school, and they were busy with friends and parties and activities on the weekend. No complaints!

During Covid, we both teleworked for about a month after Covid hit, then DH was back to work full time in person in May while I was able to find a position that allowed me to telework up until the following spring when our older child when back to school in person. Younger child was in preschool starting July 2020 and I managed the older child's virtual school while also working my demanding job from home. That was tough. Like much tougher than life pre-Covid. As soon as school started the following spring, both kids were in aftercare at school. We only dropped it last year because DH found a work from home job and they're old enough to not bother him when they get home.

So yeah, that's my story. People dealt with it before Covid, during Covid and now, after Covid. You can surely deal with it yourself.

But really, PP, aside from all that, it's truly idiotic that you don't understand that a LOT of people have jobs aren't flexible and don't allow telework. Step outside of your little bubble sometime and look around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

So we should all give up are low mortgage rates and buy homes closer in (since there is an abundance of homes on the market and it the COL in DC is so reasonable). Plus uproot our kids from their schools, activities and friends. What a short sighted comment

You made a decision that fit your situation at that time. But it wasn't smart to not plan for a change in situation. The situation has changed so yes you have to pivot. A low mortgage rate on a house located inconveniently isn't a positive thing.

Ohh geese guess I should have used my
Magic 8 ball ten years ago to know this was coming…silly me to think it was smart to have a family and buy a home!

Literally this is real life! You dont need to know what the change may be but you need to anticipate that family and work obligations shift with time. Assuming what you had at time of home purchase was a life long guarantee is very short sighted. Adults understand contingency plans. It's not fun or pleasant but it is real life. If you chose to have kids you should have expected that to alter your commuting or working abilities in some ways.

Your earlier assertion was that individuals should be able to pivot on a whim, as if selling and buying a new home or relocating children is a trivial matter. You also seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any complaints about returning to the office (RTO) b/c every adult must have their entire life meticulously planned out, accounting for every possible contingency. That reality ain’t possible.

DP. We still have elementary school aged kids and made sure to keep before and after care for our kids all through COVID and beyond because we realized this RTO would potentially be a possibility. I’m sorry if you didn’t plan better. It’s not an expense that we wanted but are thankful to still have it, tens of thousands of dollars later. We bought our home knowing we each could commute to office five days a week. We have colleagues that get up at 4 am to make the in person office commute work. There’s going to be no sympathy with this administration if you’re looking for more flexibility. They want you to quit. Either embrace the change and costs or give in to their demands and quit. There’s really no middle ground.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you worked at a company that outright banned telework and required you be on site 42.5 hours per week, monitored by badging out with time cards that are a felony to misrepresent on, I don’t want to hear how you managed pre covid. Jesus christ, people. Your quite cushy lives in 2019 are not comparable in this situation. Not at all.

🙋‍♀️

Pre-Covid I worked in person 40 hours a week (basically without access to the outside world) and was never able to telework and my husband was also in person 40 hours a week unable to telework. Our commutes were 30 minutes to an hour depending on traffic. In 2019, we had one child in daycare and another child in Kindergarten with before and after care. If our kids were sick or the school called us to pick them up early, one of us had to use leave to take care of the child. On days that school was out and we did not have the day off, either one of us took the day off or we used the aftercare program (it was open on teacher work days and some holidays, it still is, by the way). Our kindergartener had soccer once a week after school and both kids had swimming once a week after school, and they were busy with friends and parties and activities on the weekend. No complaints!

During Covid, we both teleworked for about a month after Covid hit, then DH was back to work full time in person in May while I was able to find a position that allowed me to telework up until the following spring when our older child when back to school in person. Younger child was in preschool starting July 2020 and I managed the older child's virtual school while also working my demanding job from home. That was tough. Like much tougher than life pre-Covid. As soon as school started the following spring, both kids were in aftercare at school. We only dropped it last year because DH found a work from home job and they're old enough to not bother him when they get home.

So yeah, that's my story. People dealt with it before Covid, during Covid and now, after Covid. You can surely deal with it yourself.

But really, PP, aside from all that, it's truly idiotic that you don't understand that a LOT of people have jobs aren't flexible and don't allow telework. Step outside of your little bubble sometime and look around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I rode an hour long plus vanpool when I first started in the gov't. There was no telework. You had to figure it out.

Now I see people hopping off the computer and going to school pickup and then resuming work with their young kids in the house and thinking there is nothing wrong with it.

There is nothing wrong with it. Kids are allowed to be present in the home while teleworking. My kid being at home doesn't mean I'm not working.

"While the presence of dependents in the household should not be an absolute bar to teleworking, employees should not be engaging in dependent care activities when performing official duties. While an occasional, brief interruption may occur when a dependent is present in the home, teleworkers must be careful to keep interruptions to a minimum to avoid disruptions in work accomplishment."

https://www.opm.gov/telework/tmo-and-coordinators/dependent-care/

And parents of young kids know better than anybody that this arrangement does no favors for your productivity, your coworkers or your employer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

+1
I agree with you. WFH was never going to be forever. Wasn't it only supposed to be until the lockdowns ended? It was a real nice ride while it lasted and never going to last forever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a mom who managed this problem pre covid. It's not that I want more women to be miserable. I agree that flexibility is priceless for working families and I also agree that RTO will have the largest negative impact on women and that is sad.

But I am also annoyed at how clueless and entitled some of these posts are! This is a common problem that until very recently we all dealt with. It's not a unique attack on you. You can figure it out.

I also agree with the poster who said people used to prioritize commute when buying a home. I recall making a test drive to pick my kids up and drive by our potential new home to see what that would be like before putting in an offer. We didnt put offers in to houses that had more difficult commutes. Even if we loved the space the daily reality of needing to pick up kids and get to from the office was most important.

Sorry it's changing abruptly but not sorry you can't understand that this is life.

Posts like this are so dense. Even pre-Covid and WFH, there was an increasing problem of relatively affordable homes that enabled commutes. And there was also a problem with available daycares...I had friends 13 years ago putting themselves on daycare lists the day the line turned pink and still struggling to get slots. As population was increasing and more women were working, it was getting increasingly impossible to manage.

Covid brought its own challenges, but it did provide a relief valve for this trend. So, no, young parents today are not facing the same challenges that parents like you and me did 10-12 years ago. There are fewer options now...and even fewer since COVID changed the labor market for childcare providers as well.

Also, WFH is better for the environment.