So hundreds of migrants are going to walk the length of Mexico so they can take low-paying jobs that no American wants? Not seeing a problem here. In fact, I think you'd *want* that kind of person coming here.

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Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the issue of morality or whatever you believe is right for the country. How exactly is this going to work? Door by door to round up 20 million people? Busses? Trains? Who is going to guard the deportees? Are we going to drop them off in Mexico?Fly them home? Where will the money come from? What if two illegal aliens have an American born child? What will happen to the kid?

I'm genuinely asking.

You start by not letting people in.

To answer your other question, having an American child is not a barrier to deportation. Thousands of immigrants with American children are getting deported every year. The anchor baby thing is a bunch of nonsense. Babies don’t anchor.

You didn't answer the question. Does the baby get deported too? The American citizen child?

Like everything else, it’s up to the parents. Take the child with them or leave with guardians here. Baby can stay, parents can’t. It happens every day.

It also causes an enormous amount of trauma to a child. And even if your are okay with that, writ large it becomes a problem for society. Have you seen the stats on where kids from foster care end up? Often not as productive members of society.

Child can go with the parents.

not if they're US citizens

Why not? Thirty thousand US born children are deported with their undocumented parents every year, give or take.

Sure they can go. But you can’t force them to. They are Us citizens. How many are left behind?

Quite a few are left behind. More than the number being deported. Is it a sad situation? Sure. But not every sad situation is for the government to resolve. The parents are fully aware of this dilemma before procreating and they do it anyway. Whose problem is it? Theirs.

Except if a child is left behind, it is by a definition a problem the government has to solve. Why do you think DCFS exists? Or are you letting a 4 year old wander around with not adult responsible for them? Because, spoiler alert, that ends really badly for everyone.

Spoiler alert: the parents are letting their 4 year old wander around with no responsible adult caring for them.

How is pp causing that situation?

Again— even if the parents are 100% to blame, they’ve been deported. They are gone. And, you still have a 4 year old wandering around with no responsible adult. Do what do you do about it? Not whose fault is it. Blaming others is easy. How do you solve it.

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Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the issue of morality or whatever you believe is right for the country. How exactly is this going to work? Door by door to round up 20 million people? Busses? Trains? Who is going to guard the deportees? Are we going to drop them off in Mexico?Fly them home? Where will the money come from? What if two illegal aliens have an American born child? What will happen to the kid?

I'm genuinely asking.

You start by not letting people in.

To answer your other question, having an American child is not a barrier to deportation. Thousands of immigrants with American children are getting deported every year. The anchor baby thing is a bunch of nonsense. Babies don’t anchor.

You didn't answer the question. Does the baby get deported too? The American citizen child?

Like everything else, it’s up to the parents. Take the child with them or leave with guardians here. Baby can stay, parents can’t. It happens every day.

It also causes an enormous amount of trauma to a child. And even if your are okay with that, writ large it becomes a problem for society. Have you seen the stats on where kids from foster care end up? Often not as productive members of society.

Child can go with the parents.

not if they're US citizens

Why not? Thirty thousand US born children are deported with their undocumented parents every year, give or take.

Sure they can go. But you can’t force them to. They are Us citizens. How many are left behind?

Parents who abandon their children to the care of the the US taxpayer are the ones making that decision. Nobody forced parents to enter the US illegally and no one is going to force them to leave their kids behind. That’s their decision.

You can foster as many as you’d like though. Or don’t you care about children once they are born?

You don’t know me or what I do for the most vulnerable children in society everyday as my job. (A lot, BTW). And because IT’S COMPLICATED, yes, it’s the parents decision. But, innocent kids pay the price. And their parents are gone, so you can’t punish them. And if you don’t care about the kids, care about what happens to our society when the huge influx of kids that our foster care system is in no way equipped to deal with grow up.

Even the best intentioned actions can have negative downstream consequences. And yes, it was the parents decision. But we all suffer if we get a generation of traumatized kids who grow up and aren’t able to be productive members of society. And kids in foster care? Just terrible outcomes, incarceration rates, no education. Is that a better outcome than letting parents who aren’t criminals and rapists stay and raise their kids ina stable household?

You are so glib, but these are actually very complex issues. And yes, incentivizing people to have anchor babies and stay is bad. The question is, is having tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of more traumatized kids go through foster care better or worse? I don’t know the answer to this. And you should either until you consider the real world downstream consequences.

The illegal immigrants who are abandoning their children in the US are causing this problem. They made choices they are forcing their innocent children to live with. Quit blaming the American taxpayer for this problem. We don’t create it- we have to live with it and pay for it, though. That’s why it needs to stop. I am amazed how illegal immigrants break the law, the government is complicit, and the American taxpayer is blamed. It’s not our fault. Blame the people causing this massive problem.

Okay. Let’s say I 100% blame the parents. Entirely their fault. I absolutely agree with you.

Identifying the problem is easy. Now that the blame game is done—- WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

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Anonymous wrote:There’s no reasoning with MAGA on this topic. No amount of linked articles, fact-checking, or earnest pleas help. They are not interested in the details of mass deportation and what it would look like in practice. The topic of illegal immigration sets them off at a deep and primal level and they can’t and don’t want to think straight on the matter. If mass deportation ever happens, they will derive pleasure from the images they see in the news.

says the poster who wants to kill unborn babies as she’s judged them to be unproductive and violent before they are even born.

Exactly.

I take it you didn't live in a city engulfed in shootings,death and crack in the 1980s (not DC in my case) and it shows. Just wait about 20 years in Texas and see what happens there. It's not going to be pretty.

It’s a paradise now? How are you defending illegal immigration but sentencing unborn babies to death?

Exactly nobody is defending illegal immigration on here. The debate is what to do about it. Some people want posse comitstus suspended and shock troops grabbing everyone with an accent. Some people find that problematic.

And yes, as a woman I feel pretty strongly that I should not be forced to carry a rape baby to term. I can decide myself what is best for my family, and take it up with my God if I believe in one. Although at 7 or 8 weeks. It’s not a baby. And I’m gravely that when I started to hemorrhage from a ruptured ectopic pregnancy, I was provided the medical care that saved my life and allowed me to parent the two kids I have.

Plus, abortion is a different thread. I think there is one that’s about 400 pages long. Go debate there and stop off tracking here.

“Exactly nobody is defending illegal immigration on here. The debate is what to do about it. Some people want posse comitstus suspended and shock troops grabbing everyone with an accent. Some people find that problematic.“

Citation?

Reading this thread. Deploying the military on US soil for mass deportation requires the suspension of posse comitatus. You don’t under stand that or why it’s a problem, do you?

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not realistic because the country people are getting deported to has to agree to take them back.

Plenty of countries like Cambodia, China, Cuba, Eritrea, Hong Kong, India, Iran, Iraq, Laos, Pakistan and Russia and Venezuela won’t take back deported citizens and/or frequently pause accepting their deported citizens. There are over 100,000 people the US is waiting to deport but their countries won’t take them.

We have bases and territories and islands all over the world - Guantanamo Bay, Guam, the Marshall Islands, the Aleutian Islands. It would be pretty simple to house illegal migrants and rejected asylum seekers there until their home countries take them back. Australia does something similar on the island of Nauru. It's a very effective deterrent to illegal migrants with no hope of being granted asylum.

And then we have to pay for that. For millions of people?

The PP you're responding to apparently hasn't read up on the Australian asylum detention center on Nauru. It only housed several hundred (not the millions MAGA is talking about) and all sorts of bad things happened like suicides, mental breakdown, sexual abuse of women and young girls, etc. I heard a podcast about the conditions there years ago and was horrified. It also costs the Australian government hundreds of millions of dollars to run and keep open. It's also noteworthy that the Australian government had to pass legislation to prevent journalists and whistle blowers from reporting on the conditions at the detention center. The Nuaru detention center is not something Americans should emulate. Not as long as we are still a democracy.

There are many articles about the terrible conditions on Nauru. Just try googling "Nauru Regional Processing Centre" and you will find a lot of damning information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Centre

Almost 90% of children brought from Nauru suffered physical health problems
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/22/almost-90-of-children-brought-from-nauru-suffered-physical-health-problem-study#:~:text=The%20deleterious%20impact%20of%20conditions,was%20in%20“crisis”%20and%20amongst

Nauru offshore processing to cost Australian taxpayers $485m despite only 22 asylum seekers remaining
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/23/nauru-offshore-detention-immigration-processing-to-cost-australia-485m-22-asylum-seekers

Do you think the current 200 ICE/CBP detention sites are any different?

Why do parents put their children in such facilities? That’s the better life they want for their children? How?

The kids get fed and maybe some education are in much less danger of being killed. ICE is bad. Parents risk it because their current situation is worse.

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Anonymous wrote:Putting aside the issue of morality or whatever you believe is right for the country. How exactly is this going to work? Door by door to round up 20 million people? Busses? Trains? Who is going to guard the deportees? Are we going to drop them off in Mexico?Fly them home? Where will the money come from? What if two illegal aliens have an American born child? What will happen to the kid?

I'm genuinely asking.

You start by not letting people in.

To answer your other question, having an American child is not a barrier to deportation. Thousands of immigrants with American children are getting deported every year. The anchor baby thing is a bunch of nonsense. Babies don’t anchor.

You didn't answer the question. Does the baby get deported too? The American citizen child?

Like everything else, it’s up to the parents. Take the child with them or leave with guardians here. Baby can stay, parents can’t. It happens every day.

It also causes an enormous amount of trauma to a child. And even if your are okay with that, writ large it becomes a problem for society. Have you seen the stats on where kids from foster care end up? Often not as productive members of society.

Child can go with the parents.

not if they're US citizens

Why not? Thirty thousand US born children are deported with their undocumented parents every year, give or take.

Sure they can go. But you can’t force them to. They are Us citizens. How many are left behind?

Parents who abandon their children to the care of the the US taxpayer are the ones making that decision. Nobody forced parents to enter the US illegally and no one is going to force them to leave their kids behind. That’s their decision.

You can foster as many as you’d like though. Or don’t you care about children once they are born?

You don’t know me or what I do for the most vulnerable children in society everyday as my job. (A lot, BTW). And because IT’S COMPLICATED, yes, it’s the parents decision. But, innocent kids pay the price. And their parents are gone, so you can’t punish them. And if you don’t care about the kids, care about what happens to our society when the huge influx of kids that our foster care system is in no way equipped to deal with grow up.

Even the best intentioned actions can have negative downstream consequences. And yes, it was the parents decision. But we all suffer if we get a generation of traumatized kids who grow up and aren’t able to be productive members of society. And kids in foster care? Just terrible outcomes, incarceration rates, no education. Is that a better outcome than letting parents who aren’t criminals and rapists stay and raise their kids ina stable household?

You are so glib, but these are actually very complex issues. And yes, incentivizing people to have anchor babies and stay is bad. The question is, is having tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of more traumatized kids go through foster care better or worse? I don’t know the answer to this. And you should either until you consider the real world downstream consequences.

The illegal immigrants who are abandoning their children in the US are causing this problem. They made choices they are forcing their innocent children to live with. Quit blaming the American taxpayer for this problem. We don’t create it- we have to live with it and pay for it, though. That’s why it needs to stop. I am amazed how illegal immigrants break the law, the government is complicit, and the American taxpayer is blamed. It’s not our fault. Blame the people causing this massive problem.

I’m not blaming the American taxpayer. Yes, it’s the fault of someone who now may or may not be alive in Honduras. But, once you deport them, you can’t hold them responsible any more. What— you going to Honduras to collect child support from someone making $3 a day?

But reality is, these are US citizens and you can’t deport them. We do have a problem. And it needs a solution. I’m open to ideas. Legally, constitutional ones and not the “just deport them too,” which is illegal and unconstitutional. No one ever solved a problem by pointing fingers. Now that we have placed the blame on the parents, against whom we lost any hope of recourse when we deported them, what’s your solution? Not whose fault is it. That’s easy. It’s the parents fault. You refuse to answer the hard part— now what? How do we solve it? And you refuse to answer because all the so,unions suck. And no one likes to champion a bad solution. But if you have a good, legal, constitutional solution, I’d be interested to hear it. But “so blame the parents” is not a solution.

Hundreds of migrants leave southern Mexico on foot in a new caravan headed for the US border

CIUDAD HIDALGO, México (AP) — Hundreds of migrants from around a dozen countries left from Mexico’s southern border on foot Sunday, as they attempt to make it to the U.S. border.

Some of the members of the group said they hoped to make it to the U.S. border before elections are held in November, because they fear that if Donald Trump wins, he will follow through on a promise to close the border to asylum-seekers.

“We are running the risk that permits (to cross the border) might be blocked,” said Miguel Salazar, a migrant from El Salvador. He feared that a new Trump administration might stop granting appointments to migrants through CBP One, an app used by asylum-seekers to enter the U.S. legally — by getting appointments at U.S. border posts, where they make their cases to officials.

The app only works once migrants reach Mexico City, or states in northern Mexico.


https://apnews.com/article/mexico-migrants-us-border-ff6ec67feee12c38e3bcdc1cd34af90f



https://www.cbp.gov/about/mobile-apps-directory/cbpone


What is the CBP One™ mobile application?
On October 28, 2020, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) launched the FREE CBP One™ mobile application on the Apple App and Google Play stores.

CBP One™ is a mobile application that serves as a single portal to a variety of CBP services. Through a series of guided questions, the app directs each type of user to the appropriate services based on their needs.

As part of CBP’s comprehensive effort to improve the security of our nation’s borders while enhancing legitimate travel and trade, CBP One™ provides increased accessibility and transparency to some of CBP’s most utilized services.

So illegal immigrants fleeing starvation can download an app on their iphone and apply
for asylum.

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No they don’t.
My DH used to joke about it taking an act of Congress to take his citizenship away. We don’t think that’s such a far stretch anymore.
Now he’s made sure all of our passports are in order and we have copies of his paperwork, including his DD-214, in more than one location. He’s been told by past coworkers that assumed he sought their approval that he’s “one of the good ones”. Maybe they will shield him if things get out of hand.
Hopefully we never have to deal with some vigilante going off doing the lord’s work and taking matters into their own hands.

You should be afraid of armed vigilantes with torches and pitch forks who take it upon themselves to capture "illegals." Mobs aren't smart enough to discern whether you belong here. Look at the Sikhs who got murdered after 9-11. Even Hispanic people got accused of being "Arabs." Look at Trump's praise of the Charlottesville mob. He will encourage this.

+1 this is what I fear: vigilantes going around rounding up "them illegals".

I am Asian American; DH is a white European immigrant. I told DH that if we went to war with China, I could easily see the MAGA mob trying to round up all the "chin*s", including me because I look like one even though I'm not Chinese.

Those mobs wouldn't stop to ask for papers or where you're really from. They just attack. Look at how many Asian Americans were beat up during covid because people thought those Asian Americans brought covid in, and that included patients yelling at Asian American doctors who were trying to help them.

This type of hysteria is what Trump is good at stoking. It's frightening.

Yup. My kids are Korean. I've always been worried about a war with North Korea, because I most certainly do not trust my neighbors to know the difference between North Korea and South Korea.
People are stupid, and if the government tries any form of mass deportation, it will make life extraordinarily difficult for people of color, regardless of their actual legal status. Which of course is a feature, not a bug for the MAGAs

During World War II, the United States forcibly relocated and incarcerated about 120,000 people of Japanese descent in ten concentration camps operated by the War Relocation Authority (WRA), mostly in the western interior of the country. Approximately two-thirds of the detainees were United States citizens. These actions were initiated by Executive Order 9066, issued by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, following Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, Guam, the Philippines, and Wake Island in December 1941.

FDR was a democrat.

And today, it's the MAGA Trump camp that would want to do this. TODAY, Dems aren't the ones wanting to round people up. They aren't the ones stoking fears in white America about the replacement theory, or how MX is sending over rapists and murderers.

You are lying.

Why were Japanese Americans interned during World War II? After Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, the U.S. War Department suspected that Japanese Americans might act as espionage agents for Japan, despite a lack of evidence.

Republicans don’t think illegal immigrants are spying on America.

President Roosevelt, as commander-in-chief, issued Executive Order 9066 that resulted in the internment of Japanese Americans. The order authorized the Secretary of War and military commanders to evacuate all persons deemed a threat from the West Coast to internment camps, that the government called "relocation centers," further inland.

FDR put American citizens in concentration camps.

Republicans don’t have any plan or intent to deport American citizens. Deporting people who are illegally in the US is not equivalent to putting American citizens in concentration camps, like democrats did.

Yes, FDR did that, mostly at the behest of white farmers who were jealous of the success that Japanese American farmers were having.

Let's recap:

MAGA want to execute a mass deportation.
How will that be achieved?
They will do a massive sweep, and when they ask "show me your papers" many Americans won't have papers on them, so they will be tossed in with illegal immigrants.
There is historical precedent of mass deportation, under Eisenhower (R).

https://www.history.com/news/operation-wetback-eisenhower-1954-deportation

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Anonymous wrote:It’s not realistic because the country people are getting deported to has to agree to take them back.

Plenty of countries like Cambodia, China, Cuba, Eritrea, Hong Kong, India, Iran, Iraq, Laos, Pakistan and Russia and Venezuela won’t take back deported citizens and/or frequently pause accepting their deported citizens. There are over 100,000 people the US is waiting to deport but their countries won’t take them.

We have bases and territories and islands all over the world - Guantanamo Bay, Guam, the Marshall Islands, the Aleutian Islands. It would be pretty simple to house illegal migrants and rejected asylum seekers there until their home countries take them back. Australia does something similar on the island of Nauru. It's a very effective deterrent to illegal migrants with no hope of being granted asylum.

And then we have to pay for that. For millions of people?

The PP you're responding to apparently hasn't read up on the Australian asylum detention center on Nauru. It only housed several hundred (not the millions MAGA is talking about) and all sorts of bad things happened like suicides, mental breakdown, sexual abuse of women and young girls, etc. I heard a podcast about the conditions there years ago and was horrified. It also costs the Australian government hundreds of millions of dollars to run and keep open. It's also noteworthy that the Australian government had to pass legislation to prevent journalists and whistle blowers from reporting on the conditions at the detention center. The Nuaru detention center is not something Americans should emulate. Not as long as we are still a democracy.

There are many articles about the terrible conditions on Nauru. Just try googling "Nauru Regional Processing Centre" and you will find a lot of damning information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Centre

Almost 90% of children brought from Nauru suffered physical health problems
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/22/almost-90-of-children-brought-from-nauru-suffered-physical-health-problem-study#:~:text=The%20deleterious%20impact%20of%20conditions,was%20in%20“crisis”%20and%20amongst

Nauru offshore processing to cost Australian taxpayers $485m despite only 22 asylum seekers remaining
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/23/nauru-offshore-detention-immigration-processing-to-cost-australia-485m-22-asylum-seekers

Do you think the current 200 ICE/CBP detention sites are any different?

Why do parents put their children in such facilities? That’s the better life they want for their children? How?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not realistic because the country people are getting deported to has to agree to take them back.

Plenty of countries like Cambodia, China, Cuba, Eritrea, Hong Kong, India, Iran, Iraq, Laos, Pakistan and Russia and Venezuela won’t take back deported citizens and/or frequently pause accepting their deported citizens. There are over 100,000 people the US is waiting to deport but their countries won’t take them.

We have bases and territories and islands all over the world - Guantanamo Bay, Guam, the Marshall Islands, the Aleutian Islands. It would be pretty simple to house illegal migrants and rejected asylum seekers there until their home countries take them back. Australia does something similar on the island of Nauru. It's a very effective deterrent to illegal migrants with no hope of being granted asylum.

And then we have to pay for that. For millions of people?

The PP you're responding to apparently hasn't read up on the Australian asylum detention center on Nauru. It only housed several hundred (not the millions MAGA is talking about) and all sorts of bad things happened like suicides, mental breakdown, sexual abuse of women and young girls, etc. I heard a podcast about the conditions there years ago and was horrified. It also costs the Australian government hundreds of millions of dollars to run and keep open. It's also noteworthy that the Australian government had to pass legislation to prevent journalists and whistle blowers from reporting on the conditions at the detention center. The Nuaru detention center is not something Americans should emulate. Not as long as we are still a democracy.

There are many articles about the terrible conditions on Nauru. Just try googling "Nauru Regional Processing Centre" and you will find a lot of damning information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauru_Regional_Processing_Centre

Almost 90% of children brought from Nauru suffered physical health problems
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/22/almost-90-of-children-brought-from-nauru-suffered-physical-health-problem-study#:~:text=The%20deleterious%20impact%20of%20conditions,was%20in%20“crisis”%20and%20amongst

Nauru offshore processing to cost Australian taxpayers $485m despite only 22 asylum seekers remaining
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/23/nauru-offshore-detention-immigration-processing-to-cost-australia-485m-22-asylum-seekers

Anonymous wrote:I mean say what you want about Russian birth tourism, but at least these ladies reliably leave after having their baby in Miami or wherever it is that they usually go.

Let’s stop that too. Immediately. At least two companies cater to wealthy russian and chinese families who want their children to be born in the US and qualify for citizenship. What is the upside for the American taxpayer and American citizen in these situations? Why is it in our best interests to allow this to continue to happen?