The whole neighborhood got old all of a sudden - Lord and Taylor and Mazza were in steep decline for a decade before Covid hit. It's still in a good location and could be appealing again in 5-10 years.

I'm convinced that retail/restaurant neighborhoods are inherently cyclical and whatever is hip and happening today will be Georgetown or White Flint Mall tomorrow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why so much big box outlet stuff? Its so cheesy and unappealing.

It might be unappealing to you, but these are often destination trips that bring people in — and then many of those people also shop, eat, and spend money at the smaller shops and restaurants. Originally, Friendship Heights was an upscale shopping destination, with the first Saks and the first Lord and Taylor in the area, plus Woodies. Restaurants and smaller shops grew to support the destination shoppers. Then the Mazza Gallery — with Neiman Marcus, restaurants, William’s-Sonoma, and movie theaters expanded the audiences for the neighborhood as a destination. Places like Borders, Linens N Things, and the strip of stores where the GAP is appealed to different types of shoppers, so: Mom could go to Saks, Sis could go to the Limited, Dad could shop at Brooks Brothers, and Chip could go to Borders and the music store, and refresh himself at McDonalds.

The growth of Tyson made doing all of this easier on the Virginia side. White Flint and Montgomery Mall developed as destinations on the Maryland side. The “Rodeo Drive” strip of shops was a horrible fit for the neighborhood— despite the demographics. As leases ended, shops fled to Bethesda (the Pottery Barn/ William’s Sonoma group) and City Center (The upscale transplants.) There really was enough to interest shoppers until internet shopping grew popular and successful department stores got trashed by buyers who saddled them with debt, and, eventually, like dominos, things tumbled.

It’s a lovely, convenient neighborhood that needs to find it’s footing as something other than a shopping destination.

Suggestions for what this could be if not shopping destination? Agree it can’t compete with nearby Bethesda row. But the infrastructure is there to support large scale retail / transit hub, hard to imagine it as a cozy neighborhood vibe with small local stores alone a Main Street. Wisconsin will stay a major transit thoroughfare that makes it hard to support pedestrian traffic. The roads and large scale (ugly) retail buildings aren’t going away any time soon.

I disagree with the last bit. I was fine as a pedestrian— when there was somewhere to go. Losing Borders, CVS, and Giant has meant going outside of the neighborhood for basics, which means that instead of meandering from one store to another in Friendship Heights, I just pick up everything in other neighborhoods, with fewer spontaneous stops at local stores.

I think the Trader Joe’s that’s planned will make a big difference. I’m not sure what a good destination would be — since a library or movie theater seems unlikely. I think it could be a shopping destination again, but it would take a lot of work to get a mix of stores that could be both destinations and useful for the neighborhood. A farmer’s market with a food truck or two would be nice — and something that could be expanded if there’s interest.

Library won't happen, since the Tenley-Friendship library is just up the street. I wish they'd put a new movie theater in, but not sure that makes sense for any commercial developments in 2024. A few good bars and restaurants would probably do well; beyond that, the best thing they could do would be to set rents that are affordable for stores besides national chains. Agree that Trader Joe's will be a big draw, and with parking and traffic as bad as it is in the area, plenty of people who live nearby will probably walk there.

Friendship Heights Village includes a large cohort of highly educated, financially stable people, many with time on their hands. My guess is that they’re not actively using the Tenleytown library much since, unless things have changed, MD residents can’t fully access all of the amenities— such as reserving study or meeting spaces.

I think cultural activities that pull people in would be welcomed and utilized. Again, I think communication is a problem. There is a group that has arranged for things like occasional “street” activities, and once even had a bookshop pop up. I know about some of them because they’ve put up a few low (ground level) signs — on the DC side. I’m not clear that such signs would register with anyone other than a very alert meandering pedestrian—who happened to be in the right place at the right time. So new activities get underutilized and under appreciated if most people don’t know that they’re out there.

There used to be a privately run website that highlighted activities in the upper North West / MD neighborhoods that was a wonderful resource. I think a generally known source of information about what’s already in the neighborhood would be a great next step — to alert people to what’s available throughout the neighborhood. One could go to Whole Foods dozens of times — and never realize that The Heights food hall had opened, let alone get some sense of what the might offer just steps away. Someone who used to shop at Giant, and was turned off by Amazon Fresh, might have no idea that new restaurants and other businesses— including what looks like an arts and crafts studio for children — are even there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why so much big box outlet stuff? Its so cheesy and unappealing.

It might be unappealing to you, but these are often destination trips that bring people in — and then many of those people also shop, eat, and spend money at the smaller shops and restaurants. Originally, Friendship Heights was an upscale shopping destination, with the first Saks and the first Lord and Taylor in the area, plus Woodies. Restaurants and smaller shops grew to support the destination shoppers. Then the Mazza Gallery — with Neiman Marcus, restaurants, William’s-Sonoma, and movie theaters expanded the audiences for the neighborhood as a destination. Places like Borders, Linens N Things, and the strip of stores where the GAP is appealed to different types of shoppers, so: Mom could go to Saks, Sis could go to the Limited, Dad could shop at Brooks Brothers, and Chip could go to Borders and the music store, and refresh himself at McDonalds.

The growth of Tyson made doing all of this easier on the Virginia side. White Flint and Montgomery Mall developed as destinations on the Maryland side. The “Rodeo Drive” strip of shops was a horrible fit for the neighborhood— despite the demographics. As leases ended, shops fled to Bethesda (the Pottery Barn/ William’s Sonoma group) and City Center (The upscale transplants.) There really was enough to interest shoppers until internet shopping grew popular and successful department stores got trashed by buyers who saddled them with debt, and, eventually, like dominos, things tumbled.

It’s a lovely, convenient neighborhood that needs to find it’s footing as something other than a shopping destination.

Suggestions for what this could be if not shopping destination? Agree it can’t compete with nearby Bethesda row. But the infrastructure is there to support large scale retail / transit hub, hard to imagine it as a cozy neighborhood vibe with small local stores alone a Main Street. Wisconsin will stay a major transit thoroughfare that makes it hard to support pedestrian traffic. The roads and large scale (ugly) retail buildings aren’t going away any time soon.

I disagree with the last bit. I was fine as a pedestrian— when there was somewhere to go. Losing Borders, CVS, and Giant has meant going outside of the neighborhood for basics, which means that instead of meandering from one store to another in Friendship Heights, I just pick up everything in other neighborhoods, with fewer spontaneous stops at local stores.

I think the Trader Joe’s that’s planned will make a big difference. I’m not sure what a good destination would be — since a library or movie theater seems unlikely. I think it could be a shopping destination again, but it would take a lot of work to get a mix of stores that could be both destinations and useful for the neighborhood. A farmer’s market with a food truck or two would be nice — and something that could be expanded if there’s interest.

Library won't happen, since the Tenley-Friendship library is just up the street. I wish they'd put a new movie theater in, but not sure that makes sense for any commercial developments in 2024. A few good bars and restaurants would probably do well; beyond that, the best thing they could do would be to set rents that are affordable for stores besides national chains. Agree that Trader Joe's will be a big draw, and with parking and traffic as bad as it is in the area, plenty of people who live nearby will probably walk there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why so much big box outlet stuff? Its so cheesy and unappealing.

It might be unappealing to you, but these are often destination trips that bring people in — and then many of those people also shop, eat, and spend money at the smaller shops and restaurants. Originally, Friendship Heights was an upscale shopping destination, with the first Saks and the first Lord and Taylor in the area, plus Woodies. Restaurants and smaller shops grew to support the destination shoppers. Then the Mazza Gallery — with Neiman Marcus, restaurants, William’s-Sonoma, and movie theaters expanded the audiences for the neighborhood as a destination. Places like Borders, Linens N Things, and the strip of stores where the GAP is appealed to different types of shoppers, so: Mom could go to Saks, Sis could go to the Limited, Dad could shop at Brooks Brothers, and Chip could go to Borders and the music store, and refresh himself at McDonalds.

The growth of Tyson made doing all of this easier on the Virginia side. White Flint and Montgomery Mall developed as destinations on the Maryland side. The “Rodeo Drive” strip of shops was a horrible fit for the neighborhood— despite the demographics. As leases ended, shops fled to Bethesda (the Pottery Barn/ William’s Sonoma group) and City Center (The upscale transplants.) There really was enough to interest shoppers until internet shopping grew popular and successful department stores got trashed by buyers who saddled them with debt, and, eventually, like dominos, things tumbled.

It’s a lovely, convenient neighborhood that needs to find it’s footing as something other than a shopping destination.

Suggestions for what this could be if not shopping destination? Agree it can’t compete with nearby Bethesda row. But the infrastructure is there to support large scale retail / transit hub, hard to imagine it as a cozy neighborhood vibe with small local stores alone a Main Street. Wisconsin will stay a major transit thoroughfare that makes it hard to support pedestrian traffic. The roads and large scale (ugly) retail buildings aren’t going away any time soon.

I disagree with the last bit. I was fine as a pedestrian— when there was somewhere to go. Losing Borders, CVS, and Giant has meant going outside of the neighborhood for basics, which means that instead of meandering from one store to another in Friendship Heights, I just pick up everything in other neighborhoods, with fewer spontaneous stops at local stores.

I think the Trader Joe’s that’s planned will make a big difference. I’m not sure what a good destination would be — since a library or movie theater seems unlikely. I think it could be a shopping destination again, but it would take a lot of work to get a mix of stores that could be both destinations and useful for the neighborhood. A farmer’s market with a food truck or two would be nice — and something that could be expanded if there’s interest.

Used to live there. The huge selling point was being able to walk around without the probability of getting robbed by half a dozen teenagers. Unfortunately there weren’t many places to walk to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you wanted good beer in DC way back when, you went to the Brickskeller right at Embassy & DuPont. 500 some beers on a menu. First DC brew place I remember was Cap City Brewing Co down by MCI or whatever they call it now. Across the river, VA had Bardo in Arlington & Union Street in Alexandria. Friendship really was not a destination for drinking. They had Houlihan's which I think is now a Whole Food there on Willard under the Woodies/Hecth parking lot. Then Tilas opened. Then Clydes. Aside from that, there was Chadwick's and the Pleasant Pheasant. But nobody really young hung out there. You had to head up Wisconsin Ave to Tenley for that and even further to Cleveland Park.

Taking me back. Houlihan’s. & Brickskeller was THE place for any beer beyond Budweiser/Coors etc….

Oh yeah, Brickskellars with the amazing beer menu.... but they never had your first 6 choices or so. I remember giving the waitress about 4 backup choices every time.

This is true. I miss that dive with live music and sticky floors in Glover Park. The pool hall in Tenleytown. This city has so FEW places that are actually entertaining. Just overrated restaurant after overrated restaurant, nothing else to do.

Anonymous wrote:It needs more dense tall urban vibrant mixed-use that is welcoming to all!

lol, oh boy…you know that when they break out the V-word it’s about to get crazy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you wanted good beer in DC way back when, you went to the Brickskeller right at Embassy & DuPont. 500 some beers on a menu. First DC brew place I remember was Cap City Brewing Co down by MCI or whatever they call it now. Across the river, VA had Bardo in Arlington & Union Street in Alexandria. Friendship really was not a destination for drinking. They had Houlihan's which I think is now a Whole Food there on Willard under the Woodies/Hecth parking lot. Then Tilas opened. Then Clydes. Aside from that, there was Chadwick's and the Pleasant Pheasant. But nobody really young hung out there. You had to head up Wisconsin Ave to Tenley for that and even further to Cleveland Park.

Taking me back. Houlihan’s. & Brickskeller was THE place for any beer beyond Budweiser/Coors etc….

Oh yeah, Brickskellars with the amazing beer menu.... but they never had your first 6 choices or so. I remember giving the waitress about 4 backup choices every time.

It needs more dense tall urban vibrant mixed-use that is welcoming to all!

Anonymous wrote:My theory is when bookstores close, neighborhoods die. Borders was the first nail in the coffin.

Bethesda was dumb to lose B&N. I no longer go there.

Yep. There’s only so much time one can spend at Anthropologie. Yawn.

We also lost the voltaggio restaurant and the cigar bar..they really need to build back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:why so much big box outlet stuff? Its so cheesy and unappealing.

It might be unappealing to you, but these are often destination trips that bring people in — and then many of those people also shop, eat, and spend money at the smaller shops and restaurants. Originally, Friendship Heights was an upscale shopping destination, with the first Saks and the first Lord and Taylor in the area, plus Woodies. Restaurants and smaller shops grew to support the destination shoppers. Then the Mazza Gallery — with Neiman Marcus, restaurants, William’s-Sonoma, and movie theaters expanded the audiences for the neighborhood as a destination. Places like Borders, Linens N Things, and the strip of stores where the GAP is appealed to different types of shoppers, so: Mom could go to Saks, Sis could go to the Limited, Dad could shop at Brooks Brothers, and Chip could go to Borders and the music store, and refresh himself at McDonalds.

The growth of Tyson made doing all of this easier on the Virginia side. White Flint and Montgomery Mall developed as destinations on the Maryland side. The “Rodeo Drive” strip of shops was a horrible fit for the neighborhood— despite the demographics. As leases ended, shops fled to Bethesda (the Pottery Barn/ William’s Sonoma group) and City Center (The upscale transplants.) There really was enough to interest shoppers until internet shopping grew popular and successful department stores got trashed by buyers who saddled them with debt, and, eventually, like dominos, things tumbled.

It’s a lovely, convenient neighborhood that needs to find it’s footing as something other than a shopping destination.

Suggestions for what this could be if not shopping destination? Agree it can’t compete with nearby Bethesda row. But the infrastructure is there to support large scale retail / transit hub, hard to imagine it as a cozy neighborhood vibe with small local stores alone a Main Street. Wisconsin will stay a major transit thoroughfare that makes it hard to support pedestrian traffic. The roads and large scale (ugly) retail buildings aren’t going away any time soon.

I remember that area throughout the time the PP describes. The movie theater was great, there were hair salons, that great Spanish restaurant for a while.... The galleria with Zara, Starbucks, world market, j crew. It was a fun eating shopping destination. The only thing they could add on is a little more "strolling vibe". More outdoor seating, planters, benches and fountains and pop up stuff like music. A books store would be great..I hope Rodman's stays - I've never gone in, but my family shops there and it's an institution. They need to bring back more interesting stuff than big box. I didn't mind the barneys. Jimmy Choo was out of my reach, but was fun to look at sale stuff a Barneys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all aren't getting it. The property owners have for the most part, emptied their properties for massive redevelopment.

-Mazza Gallery is already underway.
-The Maggiano's building is next.
-Lord and Taylor and the WMAT bus garage are about two years away
-The building at 44th and Jennifer may even be in play as well

Add to it, the former Channel 5 building, the corner of Harrison and Wisc (the old bank) and even possibly the Rodman's site are all being discussed.

So yes, it is bleak now, but it is partially be design so the whole area can be remade in short order.

Rodman’s is the only decent place around there. If that goes, forget it. The developers will select the dullest stores and restaurants.

Don’t need another plastic whole foods. We have 30 or more of those. Boring.

Don’t need Pottery Barn. I don’t need that many sofas.

There’s many things to criticize about Whole Foods but “plastic” is not one of them. Try harder, Martha.

Anonymous wrote:You all aren't getting it. The property owners have for the most part, emptied their properties for massive redevelopment.

-Mazza Gallery is already underway.
-The Maggiano's building is next.
-Lord and Taylor and the WMAT bus garage are about two years away
-The building at 44th and Jennifer may even be in play as well

Add to it, the former Channel 5 building, the corner of Harrison and Wisc (the old bank) and even possibly the Rodman's site are all being discussed.

So yes, it is bleak now, but it is partially be design so the whole area can be remade in short order.

Rodman’s is the only decent place around there. If that goes, forget it. The developers will select the dullest stores and restaurants.

Don’t need another plastic whole foods. We have 30 or more of those. Boring.

Don’t need Pottery Barn. I don’t need that many sofas.

Anonymous wrote:It was dying before Covid. Expensive stores, no parking.

+1

It’s boring. Annoying that you can’t park for free. I can park free at Mont Mall or Annapolis Mall.

I prefer local taquerias over gigantic chains with mediocre food.

It’s also full of traffic. That and the lack of parking make it uninviting.