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Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Here's the thing. I probably come across as passionate. But what I really feel strongly is that people who sense that someone else has something and then throw a tantrum shouldn't get things changed in their favor. I mean someone is going to benefit. I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be my kids, but someone else throwing a tantrum to get it changed so that their kid has the benefit and making up stuff about how "all the rest of swimming does it this way" when they don't, and saying horrible things about kids who legitimately win and set records shouldn't win by getting it changed so their kid is the one who happens to be advantaged. Like I don't really care what the date is, except I don't want it to be whatever benefits horrible people like OP.

And then the fact that most of the people who are whining seem to be kids who swim club and rec, which is seen as cheating in pretty much every other sport, is so ironic.

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

I didn’t say it would fix anything, I was responding to an incorrect post that stated using 6/1 was the only way someone would swim in the same age group the whole season. 6/1 and 8/1 are equally arbitrary. I find the passion people have for the 6/1 deadline to be a little over the top though given that it is just as arbitrary as 8/1. My club swimmer, a May birthday kid, could not care less about the cutoff. It’s summer swim, she’s a top swimmer regardless. She cares more that she has a good club short course season birthday.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

But isn't that just as arbitrary? What does it fix over picking 6/1?

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Anonymous wrote:would it make people feel better if instead of the category being named 11-12, it was, say, "age 11 or 12 as of June 1 of this year" or even "born between June 1, 2010 and May 31, 2012"?

It would make people feel better if summer swim worked like year round swim.

[The vast majority of people doing summer swim don't do year round swim. [/b]Kids who do already have huge advantages. Why would we change a system that works to accommodate them?

Frankly, I think it would be great if summer swim worked like many other sports. If you do club you can't do rec. You have to choose.

We just had all stars. Almost everyone at all stars is a club swimmer. So you have club swimmers above the age bracket dominating club swimmers who are within the age bracket.

Except they are not above the age bracket. Unless you don’t understand his rules work. Like someone much earlier said, hockey has a similar rule. The age cutoff is January but the spring tournament season goes though March. No one complains there that 11 year olds play in a 10u tournament even. And that’s a 3 month gap.

Because most people know how rules work. Just because NVSL and MCSl and every other summer swim league calls their level 9-10, the rules clearly specify that includes kids with birthdays until early June. If you can’t read the rules and understand how they work, no one can help you.

Except that’s now how swimming works in the entirety of the swim community and across the country.

Only in year round swim. Because it is year round it makes sense that is how age rules work.

Across the country pretty much all major summer swim leagues have a similar rule as NVSL and MCSL.

I know you NVSL people think you're the center of the universe, but no, the rest of the country does not run exactly like NVSL.

This is correct. There is a summer swim team league where I live and it’s super casual - no one is seeded, no need to sign up ahead of time for events or be told what to swim - your kid can swim every single event back to back if they wanted. There is one timer per lane and parents or siblings volunteer on the spot, no signups or deposits. My kids are club swimmers and they love to go back and help out by timing, announcing, and corralling the little kids. All the kids on the honor system to enter the right event. Lifeguards race the kids in a pool noodle race at the end of the meet. It ends with pizza and ice cream. There’s never any drama, just smiles.

No one said all summer swim runs exactly the same way. They said that most summer swim don't have kids age up on their birthday. Are you saying that your pool runs like USA swimming in that particular way?

No, I’m saying what the PP before me said - not every summer league runs like nvsl. Ours is age on the day of the meet, but that wasn’t the point of my statement. I believe NVSL changed their age up date fairly recently, so obviously there is a lot of variation, even within a single organization over a period of years. Who knows, nvsl might change their mind in the next couple of years and switch tue date to may 31 or June 15 and throw everyone into a tizzy.

They won’t. NVSL requires 2/3 of team reps to approve a change like that. They experimented briefly with the aging up on the day of the meets (contrary to pretty much every major summer swim league - curious if you could say which one you are since I’ve looked but haven’t found any major ones that age up mid season ) but switched back about 10 years ago.

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Anonymous wrote:would it make people feel better if instead of the category being named 11-12, it was, say, "age 11 or 12 as of June 1 of this year" or even "born between June 1, 2010 and May 31, 2012"?

It would make people feel better if summer swim worked like year round swim.

[The vast majority of people doing summer swim don't do year round swim. [/b]Kids who do already have huge advantages. Why would we change a system that works to accommodate them?

Frankly, I think it would be great if summer swim worked like many other sports. If you do club you can't do rec. You have to choose.

We just had all stars. Almost everyone at all stars is a club swimmer. So you have club swimmers above the age bracket dominating club swimmers who are within the age bracket.

Except they are not above the age bracket. Unless you don’t understand his rules work. Like someone much earlier said, hockey has a similar rule. The age cutoff is January but the spring tournament season goes though March. No one complains there that 11 year olds play in a 10u tournament even. And that’s a 3 month gap.

Because most people know how rules work. Just because NVSL and MCSl and every other summer swim league calls their level 9-10, the rules clearly specify that includes kids with birthdays until early June. If you can’t read the rules and understand how they work, no one can help you.

Except that’s now how swimming works in the entirety of the swim community and across the country.

Only in year round swim. Because it is year round it makes sense that is how age rules work.

Across the country pretty much all major summer swim leagues have a similar rule as NVSL and MCSL.

I know you NVSL people think you're the center of the universe, but no, the rest of the country does not run exactly like NVSL.

This is correct. There is a summer swim team league where I live and it’s super casual - no one is seeded, no need to sign up ahead of time for events or be told what to swim - your kid can swim every single event back to back if they wanted. There is one timer per lane and parents or siblings volunteer on the spot, no signups or deposits. My kids are club swimmers and they love to go back and help out by timing, announcing, and corralling the little kids. All the kids on the honor system to enter the right event. Lifeguards race the kids in a pool noodle race at the end of the meet. It ends with pizza and ice cream. There’s never any drama, just smiles.

No one said all summer swim runs exactly the same way. They said that most summer swim don't have kids age up on their birthday. Are you saying that your pool runs like USA swimming in that particular way?

No, I’m saying what the PP before me said - not every summer league runs like nvsl. Ours is age on the day of the meet, but that wasn’t the point of my statement. I believe NVSL changed their age up date fairly recently, so obviously there is a lot of variation, even within a single organization over a period of years. Who knows, nvsl might change their mind in the next couple of years and switch tue date to may 31 or June 15 and throw everyone into a tizzy.

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Someone is always at a disadvantage. Just move on. They aren’t going to change it again. They tried it for a short time and it nobody liked it. You need to get over it.

Calm down summer birthday kid parent. I literally gave a straightforward response to the PP because it wasn’t accurate. I did not advocate for changing the cutoff, or insert my personal opinion. Perhaps you are the one that needs to consider getting over it since even factual posts bother you.

DP, my kid is a fall birthday and is always swimming against older kids. I have no issue with it. Nor does she. Helps her race and get better. She has also learned not to worry about the little things: So she races kids older than her - no big deal. Once she turns 15, she will always be racing against older kids for several years. Not all of us advocating for keeping the current system have kids who are beneficiaries.

I guess really winter birthday who ages up around Thanksgiving (lest someone say I have an August kid).

Are you really trying to say your November birthday kid has a disadvantage in summer swim? I can’t with you people. The kids who are truly disadvantaged by the cutoff are April/May birthdays. That’s it. Not being the oldest doesn’t mean your child is disadvantaged. That’s like trying to say a kid with a May birthday is disadvantaged in a sport that goes by birth year. Just because your kid is competing against some kids a bit older than them does not make it a disadvantage. The majority of kids are still younger than yours.

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Someone is always at a disadvantage. Just move on. They aren’t going to change it again. They tried it for a short time and it nobody liked it. You need to get over it.

Calm down summer birthday kid parent. I literally gave a straightforward response to the PP because it wasn’t accurate. I did not advocate for changing the cutoff, or insert my personal opinion. Perhaps you are the one that needs to consider getting over it since even factual posts bother you.

DP, my kid is a fall birthday and is always swimming against older kids. I have no issue with it. Nor does she. Helps her race and get better. She has also learned not to worry about the little things: So she races kids older than her - no big deal. Once she turns 15, she will always be racing against older kids for several years. Not all of us advocating for keeping the current system have kids who are beneficiaries.

I guess really winter birthday who ages up around Thanksgiving (lest someone say I have an August kid).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Someone is always at a disadvantage. Just move on. They aren’t going to change it again. They tried it for a short time and it nobody liked it. You need to get over it.

Calm down summer birthday kid parent. I literally gave a straightforward response to the PP because it wasn’t accurate. I did not advocate for changing the cutoff, or insert my personal opinion. Perhaps you are the one that needs to consider getting over it since even factual posts bother you.

DP, my kid is a fall birthday and is always swimming against older kids. I have no issue with it. Nor does she. Helps her race and get better. She has also learned not to worry about the little things: So she races kids older than her - no big deal. Once she turns 15, she will always be racing against older kids for several years. Not all of us advocating for keeping the current system have kids who are beneficiaries.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why it matters, the kids have times that are reasonably comparable, right? So does it matter if one is first or third or whatever in the summer swim meet?

No, it does not. Unless you are obsessive and the idea of your kid coming in 2nd to a kid who is 20 months older is going to melt your brain. OP is one such person.

I don’t understand why it matters, the kids have times that are reasonably comparable, right? So does it matter if one is first or third or whatever in the summer swim meet?

Anonymous wrote:Take some responsibility, OP. You should have timed the birth of your kids better for summer swim.

In Prince William County, Camille Spink has the league record for girls 11-12 50 back and 11-12 50 free. She must have stopped doing summer swim or she would have even more records since she currently has the 4th fastest 50m free time in the country. Her birthday is in September.

Our team record for 11-12 50 free is several years old. She went on to compete in college and made the NCAA championship meet. I don't know when her birthday is, but even if it's June 2 she earned the record due to swimming ability.

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Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Someone is always at a disadvantage. Just move on. They aren’t going to change it again. They tried it for a short time and it nobody liked it. You need to get over it.

Calm down summer birthday kid parent. I literally gave a straightforward response to the PP because it wasn’t accurate. I did not advocate for changing the cutoff, or insert my personal opinion. Perhaps you are the one that needs to consider getting over it since even factual posts bother you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Someone is always at a disadvantage. Just move on. They aren’t going to change it again. They tried it for a short time and it nobody liked it. You need to get over it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.