Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can any state level policy maker explain why our states aren’t fighting over kids who want to major in computer science and got a 700+ on the math SAT? Aren’t these kids going to be the major innovators of the future? Generate enormous increases in quality of life for Americans and humanity at large? And generate large tax bills too? State policy makers should be bending over backwards to have vibrant and well-funded CS programs and fill them with as many kids as they can who can do the work.

They do. Just that posters here are shooting for the top state schools.

For example, there are tons of schools in CA to learn computer science, but a lot of people are just fixated on berkeley.

Anonymous wrote:Can any state level policy maker explain why our states aren’t fighting over kids who want to major in computer science and got a 700+ on the math SAT? Aren’t these kids going to be the major innovators of the future? Generate enormous increases in quality of life for Americans and humanity at large? And generate large tax bills too? State policy makers should be bending over backwards to have vibrant and well-funded CS programs and fill them with as many kids as they can who can do the work.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

——/

My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I get what everyone is saying but please stop saying a kid with:

4.0, never less than an A in 7 years
9 APs including the most rigorous sci & math
Strong ECs strongly aligning with academic interest
1550 one sitting
Eagle Scout

is a dime a dozen, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids, SO typical.

No. Not true. Not here. Not anywhere.

OP's kid will thrive because that's who he is and we can all look at this theoretically and say, oh whatever college is fine he'll be a success who cares it's such an honor to go to gmu...

It is disappointing and yes, on some level, unfair how this is all going down.

She's allowed to be upset. You are allowed to criticize her. And I am allowed to call you a clown.

No--there are tons of kids with those stats or very close (1550+ and 3.95UW and 10+ APs). Once you hit 1550+ the score does not really matter. There are lots of kids with great stats, due to test prep. And the "one sitting" does not matter as 99% of schools superscore and Do NOT care if it took more than 1 attempt. And that group of kids is applying to 10-15+ top/elite schools. When acceptance rates are less than 15-20%, you should assume your kid will not get in and be excited if you do.

Yes, OP kid will (or should) thrive anywhere because they are smart, driven, high achieving. But the college process has been brutal for several years and gotten worse each year, TO makes it even more challenging. Smart people know this and prepare. That means finding Safeties that you ACTuALLY LIKE and want to attend and showing demonstrated interest. Why apply to schools that you wouldn't actually want to attend?

Yes, be disappointed for a day or so after you get rejected, then move on and focus on what's remaining.

Well, a 1550 is in the top .5%; that coupled with a perfect GPA and strong ECs for their intended major probably puts then in the top 4-5 thousand kids out of a couple of million who took the SAT. You say that the kids with these stats are all shooting for the top 10-15 elite colleges; I agree. The OP is upset that her kid who has the stats to be a reasonable candidate for places like MIT was deferred at Purdue and wasn't admitted directly into the CS program at Colorado. That's absolutely ridiculous for a someone like this.

That .5% = 8,500 students, which is more than the number of students graduating from the top 10 CS programs.

Is that .5% in one sitting or superscore? I think most of the kids you hear about getting these scores are super scores, but I suspect the stat is one sitting.

DP: According to the Common App 2022 report, 76,000+ applicants applied to universities/colleges with an SAT score >1500 (this includes ACT equivalent scores). The .5% is a single sitting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I get what everyone is saying but please stop saying a kid with:

4.0, never less than an A in 7 years
9 APs including the most rigorous sci & math
Strong ECs strongly aligning with academic interest
1550 one sitting
Eagle Scout

is a dime a dozen, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids, SO typical.

No. Not true. Not here. Not anywhere.

OP's kid will thrive because that's who he is and we can all look at this theoretically and say, oh whatever college is fine he'll be a success who cares it's such an honor to go to gmu...

It is disappointing and yes, on some level, unfair how this is all going down.

She's allowed to be upset. You are allowed to criticize her. And I am allowed to call you a clown.

No--there are tons of kids with those stats or very close (1550+ and 3.95UW and 10+ APs). Once you hit 1550+ the score does not really matter. There are lots of kids with great stats, due to test prep. And the "one sitting" does not matter as 99% of schools superscore and Do NOT care if it took more than 1 attempt. And that group of kids is applying to 10-15+ top/elite schools. When acceptance rates are less than 15-20%, you should assume your kid will not get in and be excited if you do.

Yes, OP kid will (or should) thrive anywhere because they are smart, driven, high achieving. But the college process has been brutal for several years and gotten worse each year, TO makes it even more challenging. Smart people know this and prepare. That means finding Safeties that you ACTuALLY LIKE and want to attend and showing demonstrated interest. Why apply to schools that you wouldn't actually want to attend?

Yes, be disappointed for a day or so after you get rejected, then move on and focus on what's remaining.

Well, a 1550 is in the top .5%; that coupled with a perfect GPA and strong ECs for their intended major probably puts then in the top 4-5 thousand kids out of a couple of million who took the SAT. You say that the kids with these stats are all shooting for the top 10-15 elite colleges; I agree. The OP is upset that her kid who has the stats to be a reasonable candidate for places like MIT was deferred at Purdue and wasn't admitted directly into the CS program at Colorado. That's absolutely ridiculous for a someone like this.

That .5% = 8,500 students, which is more than the number of students graduating from the top 10 CS programs.

Is that .5% in one sitting or superscore? I think most of the kids you hear about getting these scores are super scores, but I suspect the stat is one sitting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I get what everyone is saying but please stop saying a kid with:

4.0, never less than an A in 7 years
9 APs including the most rigorous sci & math
Strong ECs strongly aligning with academic interest
1550 one sitting
Eagle Scout

is a dime a dozen, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids, SO typical.

No. Not true. Not here. Not anywhere.

OP's kid will thrive because that's who he is and we can all look at this theoretically and say, oh whatever college is fine he'll be a success who cares it's such an honor to go to gmu...

It is disappointing and yes, on some level, unfair how this is all going down.

She's allowed to be upset. You are allowed to criticize her. And I am allowed to call you a clown.

No--there are tons of kids with those stats or very close (1550+ and 3.95UW and 10+ APs). Once you hit 1550+ the score does not really matter. There are lots of kids with great stats, due to test prep. And the "one sitting" does not matter as 99% of schools superscore and Do NOT care if it took more than 1 attempt. And that group of kids is applying to 10-15+ top/elite schools. When acceptance rates are less than 15-20%, you should assume your kid will not get in and be excited if you do.

Yes, OP kid will (or should) thrive anywhere because they are smart, driven, high achieving. But the college process has been brutal for several years and gotten worse each year, TO makes it even more challenging. Smart people know this and prepare. That means finding Safeties that you ACTuALLY LIKE and want to attend and showing demonstrated interest. Why apply to schools that you wouldn't actually want to attend?

Yes, be disappointed for a day or so after you get rejected, then move on and focus on what's remaining.

Well, a 1550 is in the top .5%; that coupled with a perfect GPA and strong ECs for their intended major probably puts then in the top 4-5 thousand kids out of a couple of million who took the SAT. You say that the kids with these stats are all shooting for the top 10-15 elite colleges; I agree. The OP is upset that her kid who has the stats to be a reasonable candidate for places like MIT was deferred at Purdue and wasn't admitted directly into the CS program at Colorado. That's absolutely ridiculous for a someone like this.

That .5% = 8,500 students, which is more than the number of students graduating from the top 10 CS programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Madison CS is stuffed to the brim and overflowing. Great program but CROWDED. I wouldn't be too upset about this deferral and I wouldn't be too excited about an admission. Apparently you declare a CS major later and there is currently no cap on the program. You can get much better experiences elsewhere where the number of kids is limited. Seems like EVERYONE wants to do CS these days.

And most will be displaced by AI. Be very careful if your kid wants to go into CS. The small availability to program AI will be incredibly competitive...

You are correct if you consider CS to be a technical degree that teaches coding. There will always be a need for people who can develop the newest tech -- whatever it is that follows AI.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not shoot for something like ivy or Stanford or Duke? Your child has the stats to at least play the lottery, and that way you wouldn’t be stuck with a lack of options

Huh???!?!?! They can't get into Purdue, yet you think Ivies, Stanford and duke would be easier to get into?
That's not how this works

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

——/

My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I get what everyone is saying but please stop saying a kid with:

4.0, never less than an A in 7 years
9 APs including the most rigorous sci & math
Strong ECs strongly aligning with academic interest
1550 one sitting
Eagle Scout

is a dime a dozen, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of kids, SO typical.

No. Not true. Not here. Not anywhere.

OP's kid will thrive because that's who he is and we can all look at this theoretically and say, oh whatever college is fine he'll be a success who cares it's such an honor to go to gmu...

It is disappointing and yes, on some level, unfair how this is all going down.

She's allowed to be upset. You are allowed to criticize her. And I am allowed to call you a clown.

No--there are tons of kids with those stats or very close (1550+ and 3.95UW and 10+ APs). Once you hit 1550+ the score does not really matter. There are lots of kids with great stats, due to test prep. And the "one sitting" does not matter as 99% of schools superscore and Do NOT care if it took more than 1 attempt. And that group of kids is applying to 10-15+ top/elite schools. When acceptance rates are less than 15-20%, you should assume your kid will not get in and be excited if you do.

Yes, OP kid will (or should) thrive anywhere because they are smart, driven, high achieving. But the college process has been brutal for several years and gotten worse each year, TO makes it even more challenging. Smart people know this and prepare. That means finding Safeties that you ACTuALLY LIKE and want to attend and showing demonstrated interest. Why apply to schools that you wouldn't actually want to attend?

Yes, be disappointed for a day or so after you get rejected, then move on and focus on what's remaining.

Well, a 1550 is in the top .5%; that coupled with a perfect GPA and strong ECs for their intended major probably puts then in the top 4-5 thousand kids out of a couple of million who took the SAT. You say that the kids with these stats are all shooting for the top 10-15 elite colleges; I agree. The OP is upset that her kid who has the stats to be a reasonable candidate for places like MIT was deferred at Purdue and wasn't admitted directly into the CS program at Colorado. That's absolutely ridiculous for a someone like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

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My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Madison CS is stuffed to the brim and overflowing. Great program but CROWDED. I wouldn't be too upset about this deferral and I wouldn't be too excited about an admission. Apparently you declare a CS major later and there is currently no cap on the program. You can get much better experiences elsewhere where the number of kids is limited. Seems like EVERYONE wants to do CS these days.

And most will be displaced by AI. Be very careful if your kid wants to go into CS. The small availability to program AI will be incredibly competitive...

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

Anonymous wrote:Madison CS is stuffed to the brim and overflowing. Great program but CROWDED. I wouldn't be too upset about this deferral and I wouldn't be too excited about an admission. Apparently you declare a CS major later and there is currently no cap on the program. You can get much better experiences elsewhere where the number of kids is limited. Seems like EVERYONE wants to do CS these days.