Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is video of Tyre Nichols skateboarding, as released by his family: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_hZGVI2U-4

None of the traffic cameras showed him swerving or driving aggressively. He was coming back home to his mom's house after taking pictures of the sunset. He liked Starbucks.

Two cops held his arms back while their colleagues were punching him in the face, yelling "show me your hands! show me your hands!" and "stop resisting!" ... captured for the audio, but only before someone noticed the overhead camera.

I don't want this to get lost. He was some 80 yards from his mother's house, crying out for her. There is no evidence for any reason to pull him over.

This latter assertion is a red herring. The standard for a lawful police stop is mere “reasonable suspicion,” a preposterously low bar that permits even pretextual stops in many instances. Further, fleeing and eluding the police is itself a “high and aggravated misdemeanor” in Georgia.

Whatever the merits of the charges in this case, the authorities do nothing but weaken their position by grabbing at straws for something else like this to add.

You disagree with the chief of police for this city, then? That's an authority whose assessment you do not accept?

Memphis police chief says officers had 'no proof' to pull Tyre Nichols over
https://www.businessinsider.com/tyre-nichols-traiffic-stop-no-proof-memphis-police-chief-says-2023-1

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I have to say it’s good that it’s a bunch of black officers who tuned this guy up. It’s also pretty clear that for all this guy’s supposed calmness, he took off and ran. He ran. If he just shuts up and stays on the ground, and takes a few kicks, he’s showing up at a cop protest sometime this year. But now he’s not.

Have you ever been beaten down by an armed goon squad?! No? Then who are you to judge?

What happened is horrific, but most of us don't engage in conduct that prompts an arrest.

Oh, you can stop using that anymore. Cell phones and body cams have been bringing those excuses into bright light.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/758913.page
List of things you can’t do while black

"Most" includes all people, regardless of race.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

Okay, so even with the relatively widespread number of bodycams that don't work / are not turned on / tape gets damaged, you believe we are so very lucky that all these extreme violence events (even if rare, we are talking about all of them) are getting caught on external cameras.

Let's be clear that when new officers arrived on the scene, one or two of them flashed lights up at the pole cam, and the behavior of their fellow officers changed. And recall that there is, on tape, cop voices reviewing what they are going to say about what this young man said and did (which he didn't say or do).

I'd like to make sure we are all on the same page about what the initial police report claimed happened:



https://twitter.com/MEM_PoliceDept/status/1612057507937095680

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is video of Tyre Nichols skateboarding, as released by his family: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_hZGVI2U-4

None of the traffic cameras showed him swerving or driving aggressively. He was coming back home to his mom's house after taking pictures of the sunset. He liked Starbucks.

Two cops held his arms back while their colleagues were punching him in the face, yelling "show me your hands! show me your hands!" and "stop resisting!" ... captured for the audio, but only before someone noticed the overhead camera.

I don't want this to get lost. He was some 80 yards from his mother's house, crying out for her. There is no evidence for any reason to pull him over.

This latter assertion is a red herring. The standard for a lawful police stop is mere “reasonable suspicion,” a preposterously low bar that permits even pretextual stops in many instances. Further, fleeing and eluding the police is itself a “high and aggravated misdemeanor” in Georgia.

Whatever the merits of the charges in this case, the authorities do nothing but weaken their position by grabbing at straws for something else like this to add.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

Despite what you believe, these kinds of incidents happen rarely in today's word, thankfully. This is because police DO police themselves. They get rid of officers who demonstrate excessive force BEFORE they can cause harm or death to others. And, when they do, they are generally captured on video because more and more police depts. use body cams and because of video cameras everywhere today. When someone dies at the hands of police, it is always in the news. And, it is not always the fault of the police officer.

You try to find a story of someone who died at the hand of police in the last 5-10 years that was NOT captured on video. It is a rare occurrence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how when the cops are black, decisive action is taken immediately. Let’s remember this when a white cop kills someone and the “investigation” drags on for months.

Interesting how you haven't realized that this is actually evidence that change is happening - that is proof that things get better and that people can make change happen.

I'll believe change is happening the first time a white cop is investigated and charged within a month of the incident.

Stop making this about a race issue of the cops. If this was done by white cops and there was as much evidence, the results would be the same.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

PP here. This was the context of my question, about which I am truly hoping to be shown wrong:

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

My concern is that our licensed law enforcement is incapable of self-policing when things are really bad. It seems a reasonable question to ask how we are supposed to know how often this happens, if it only comes up on video?

Since there are other PPs here, can you please weigh in on the other professions' self-regulation you are bring up. Doctors, for example, have licenses that are tracked from state to state with double-checks to ensure you can't just move to practice in a new area. If you try to get licensed in a new state, everything, even just patient complaints that were deemed without merit, follows you.

Are you all in support of a law enforcement licensure that is tracked across your entire career, which is used to evaluate fitness for duty of all LEOs before being hired somewhere new?

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

Right, that guy did not end up needing medical intervention. He was medically cleared and put in detention.

I am talking about true violence -- beatdowns, the stuff that goes well beyond the pale. Not a guy that ends up being cleared by doctors as perfectly stable to be left alone in a cell.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

IU am not the pp, but will provide at least one incident that doesn't appear to be on video....

https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article270987052.html

I know there are more, but I am not going to search for them. I would also point out that many, if not most, encounters with police today are captured on camera - either because of body cams or because of cameras everywhere on the streets. Just do a search for "police fired for excessive force" and you will see that it happens.....and video isn't always available.

I will also point out that any occupation has bad apples - health care, teaching, lawyers, etc. You just hear about the police officers more because of viral videos.

^^Because it's either that, or all brutal bad apples are stupid enough to drag their beatdowns in front of cameras, or there is a pattern of coverups when it gets really really bad and there isn't a video (even though that is a rare encounter when taken in context of the total encounters)?

One of those has to be true.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

No, I won't. You don't hear about the LE officers that are fired due to excessive force - precisely because there is no video of it. There is nothing to go viral, so you don't hear about it. You don't hear about the police officers who are reprimanded or punished because of some infraction - because there is not video of it.
Videos of LE breaking the law go viral. And, they get the public all up in arms about policing and send the public the message that all police are bad. When police officers are fired or reprimanded or punished because of misconduct, but there is no video of it - you won't hear about it. But, it happens. I know. I come from a family who has a LE background.

So you are telling me there are cases of truly excessive force -- leading to death of the individual -- and there is absolutely nothing about those cases online, not even a single news blotter note?

That is what you are saying? People are dying at the hands of police and it never gets mentioned anywhere?

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

No, I won't. You don't hear about the LE officers that are fired due to excessive force - precisely because there is no video of it. There is nothing to go viral, so you don't hear about it. You don't hear about the police officers who are reprimanded or punished because of some infraction - because there is not video of it.
Videos of LE breaking the law go viral. And, they get the public all up in arms about policing and send the public the message that all police are bad. When police officers are fired or reprimanded or punished because of misconduct, but there is no video of it - you won't hear about it. But, it happens. I know. I come from a family who has a LE background.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

I'm talking about beatdowns like this. Extreme violence, not questionably maybe a little too much stuff.

Do you really think incidents like this, Rodney King, George Floyd. etc., ONLY happen to occur when there is video of it? Shouldn't there be at least a couple such hyperviolent episode that was solely addressed because of colleague report and no video evidence?

Or is there an account of this? I am assuming that if a police officer was found to have killed an innocent person in a violent way, there would be at least one newspaper article in the local paper about it. What am I missing here? (I really, honestly hope you are going to post links to a couple of stories online, because I would actually like to be wrong about this.)

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Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?

Different poster, but it's not "only" working when it comes to light. Most complaints against cops are filed by other cops. You just don't hear about it because it's handled by the department as would any other employment related complaint. Police get fired for misconduct and you never hear about it.

Video, on the other hand, makes cheap easy news for our media. Don't take it as representing the entire universe of police conduct or misconduct. Because it's not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s on Vimeo. The cops came in hot. Not sure if he didn’t pull over immediately but they were clearly angry and dragged him from the car. He was calm and trying to talk to them. He got scared and ran. They got angry that they had to chase him. Looks like one cop maybe got sprayed in his eye.

They find him and kick him in the head multiple times. They hold him while others near him.

How can anyone feel safe around police no matter your color or their color? These men beat him to death.

I’m so heartbroken for his family. I can’t imagine dying like that. Feeling so helpless and terrified.

So sickening.

Being enraged to riot is understandable but it’s not the cops who will suffer.

I know the job messes with your head.

I wish we weren’t such a violent country/culture.

What a $hitty world we’ve created for our children.

There's something really wrong with many, many, many men. They have these fragile little egos and when something doesn't go their way, they react to an insane level. Is it right to run from a cop? No, but it should never be a death sentence or result in straight up violence.

I generally advocate for doing what cops say and dealing with any wring doing in court. But after watching the video, how hot they came in, dragging him from the car, screaming and oepoer spraying him while he tried to de-escalate...at a certain point, if I think my life is in danger, I'm going to try to get away. I can't really blame him for that. Maybe they killed him because he ran, but Tyre ran because he thought they were going to kill him. And they did.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great strategy! Fight the police because they will kill you if you don't. ha

I mean he could have laid there and let them suffocate him against the ground or beat him to death on the spot. I’d at least give myself the chance to live by running. He’s seen all the same videos and court cases of these scenarios to know, he’s likely going to die. I mean hell at this point being in your home and eating ice cream or sleeping can get you killed by cops with zero liability from the cops. Reckless driving/DUI does not justify beating a person to death, but I guess if you are black that’s the reason it is. He pulled over and stopped for Christ sake.

+1. Tyre Nichols did not die because he failed to follow directions. He died because these pigs wanted to kill him. That’s it.

Cops murder people all the time who comply with their directions.

You think this never happens? A cop in Florida shot a Black behavioral therapist who was complying when the autistic boy who was supposed to comply wasn’t. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna745716

Nobody said that. It rarely happens. Do you realize that you aren't privy to what over a million police officers do on a daily basis? You only know what pops up on your phone, and that's a big difference.

DP. You think the fact that not every cop brutalizes people excuses the ones who do? WTF is wrong with you?

DP. Nowhere in the PP’s post did they say that the officers should be excused for their behavior. Nothing is wrong with that PP. They simply posted that incidents are actually rare, despite what social media shows. Statistics prove this. Over 99% of police interactions (per FBI statistics) involve no use of force. That doesn’t mean there aren’t horrific uses of force, but it does demonstrate that this is rare. Of the uses of force that do occur, most are deemed justified. (Keep in mind that merely putting on handcuffs can be a use of force.)

I’m sure the PP would appreciate if you don’t jump to conclusions.

I would suggest you go back and reread the exchange, because pp absolutely was trying to deflect from the brutality of Nichols’ murder by citing to the fact that not all cops do this.

Are you suggesting that all cops do this? Really?
The PP said nothing wrong.

One bad apple spoils the bunch, and there is a lot more than one bad apple in the police forces in the United States.

This is a stupid view. There are bad apples in every single profession. Should we just get rid of everything?

DP

Agree - we should not throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. We need to invest much more in police training … they have a difficult and risky but important job.

Do you know what happens if you as a cop intervene and stop your fellow officers once they start abusing a person? The officer just put a target on his back. He’s now an officer who can’t be trusted. At any time he can be hung out to dry, left on an island when he’s supposed to have backup.

When you’re an officer, you’re a member of the gang. What happens when a gang member turns on his gang? Exactly.

And if cops cannot police themselves, then they have to be policed by third parties. (So to speak.)

Take away qualified immunity. Not turning on body cam means you lose your job and pension. If we don't have enough candidates with this kind of oversight, then shift tasks (spend funding on medical/social work crisis response teams and not military weapons for the police department; separate traffic enforcement from regular police force, etc). Offer different incentives.

I don't care how many nie guys you know as cops. This isn't working. American police cannot be trusted to police themselves. Other developed countries don't have this problem. Whatever they are doing needs to be started here, because we are failing. We are killing our own citizens.

That's really not true. The police chief immediately fired all five of these guys and the state brought charges against them. The system is working as it should.

Other developed countries don't have this problem because they have a much higher police-to-citizen ratio and they don't have the most heavily armed civilian population in the world.

Take away cops (which is de facto happening now as police forces shrink) and you replace it with vigilante justice. Because America's underlying violence problem isn't just police. It's all of us.

This!

Taking away qualified immunity is not something that will help. At all.
Qualified immunity does NOT protect LE when they break the law.... like they did here.

These 5 officers not only brought shame to themselves - they have also put another black eye on LE everywhere.

The actions these officers took are not representative of 95%+ of officers we have. LE have thousands of encounters with the public every day that end as routine encounters.
Please don't allow yourself to believe that this horrific incident is representative of most LE.

Why is it that the systems you praise only "works" if there is some kind of video of it? Are all cops stupid enough to only commit acts like this in the vicinity of a pole camera that captures it on video? That would be pretty dumb. They certainly aren't turning in each other when there isn't video, though.

Maybe it's the cameras that work, not the self-policing.

Why is it that you won't acknowledge the thousands of police encounters that end routinely? Why can you not admit that the majority of the thousands of police officers that protect the public every day would never resort to this?

Oh, I'll absolutely acknowledge that, all of it. And I still hold that what we have set up as a system is not good enough, because it is not working, and it's ONLY when there is video that this is coming to light, because it's the cameras that work -- not the self-policing.

Will you join me and acknowledge that?