Anonymous wrote:I’m Team OP in terms of this being a ridiculous set-up. But I don’t understand the issue about him taking the job. Sounds like he does nothing right now. If he is busy at work, at least he won’t be sleeping in, playing on his phone, making a mess. And if it goes well, maybe he will get a good pay raise and you can either outsource more or have more resources if you end up deciding that you and the kids are better off without him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.

Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.

So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.

He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.

Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.

It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.

But what if he didn't improve? What if he never made money? Would it be worth it then? Seems like a big gamble, especially if retirement security is on the line.

Yeah, that was a gamble. My retirement wasn't on the line though, we were financially okay in that department, along with paying for college, etc. After devoting a lot of time reading studies on the division of housework in modern American families, I decided that it was likely to improve and focused on that. It's hard to visualize the counterfactual, how I would have felt if we were still dealing with this. But I tend to be data driven and the numbers for married people are generally better than unmarried.

If my husband never made money at all, I wouldn't have married him. Financial security is a huge factor to me. He was always a good earner, just an even better spender until he made so much it'd be difficult to spend it.

So you married an immature man who treated you badly, but that's ok because money?

He treated me poorly in a way that the majority of men treat their wives poorly. In most American households, women do the majority of housework. So, uh, yeah, like most women in hetero couplings, who stay married, I tolerated this suboptimal yet common condition until it subsided. My decision to do so was less about money and more about wanting to be married to a man.

Okay no. It may be true that in most couples women do the majority of housework, but for a lot of them it's *on purpose*, agreed to, and peaceful.. It's a smaller proportion of couples who have that dynamic because the man is immature, lazy, disorganized, disrespectful, uncaring, etc. Stop acting like those marriages are the same, they aren't.

It's sad that you felt you needed a man that badly. I'm sad for the younger version of yourself.

You think that women just *want* to do more work? Like they walk in and say "no, Chad, don't do the dishes! I want to!" It is peaceful because women know the deal- that men are not likely to pull their weight in that regard, and they are tired of beating a dead horse. It's always disrespectful, uncaring, etc.

Thank you for your sympathy.

If they are SAHM or work part time, yes I would think that is definitely and explicitly the deal. The question is not "In how many households does the woman do more". It's "In how many households does the woman do much more despite working full time and going to therapy and constantly exhorting her DH to do the things he explicitly agree to do?". And that's a far smaller proportion.

On the contrary, when women outearn their husband, they do even more housework than in couples where the woman earns less. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/05/02/housework-divide-working-parents/

Are these women just like, obsessed with working? Is that it? Has nothing to do with the fact that men are cultured to regard it as women's responsibility?

I don't know, probably some of them are unahppy and others of them have their reasons, but I do know it's abnormal for a.man to behave like OP's husband, being lazy and yelling and doing hardly anything in the face of therapy and repeated requests.

I suspect that OP is more persistent about this issue than most women, as I also was before I made peace with it. Can we at least agree that it is not normal to write love letters thanking your spouse for cooking dinner? That's an unusual level of engagement on this topic. And, like most men are cultured not to do housework, women are cultured to do it. So this is probably not an issue that is brought to the surface in the way it is in OP's (and was in mine at first). So he sounds like a prick but maybe a lot of marriages would look like this if women weren't all out there cheerfully and consensually doing more than they should have to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He came home to tell you about something he was excited about and felt flattered by. You called him lazy and talked about his flaws. I am having trouble understanding how you expected him to react. I know he isn't helping at home, but he's your husband and you should try to muster a little bit of support for him.

Men get better as they get older. They contribute more and make more responsible decisions. Wait him out.

Just how much lack of consideration, fairness, and basic adult functioning should a woman accept in the name of "support"? If she acted happy about it, that would be deceitful. She isn't, and he deserves to hear the truth even if it causes him a man-baby tantrum.

You can't maintain a relationship if you withhold all support until all problems are solved.

Also let's be real here. This is about cleaning. People don't divorce over cleaning. They do divorce over falling out of love and that is the path they are on if OP and her husband can't have a conversation about work opportunities without her calling him lazy, etc.

As far as the temporary position, this is really common at government agencies and often doesn't come with increased compensation. And it can be very career limiting if you don't do them or apply when approached about them.

Lots and lots and lots of men don't pull their weight at home. Despite all the insistence on this board that everyone has a 50/50 split, there's been a lot of ink spilled on how men do much less housework. And yeah, that impacts marriages, with couples like OPs generally having less sex than couples with a fairer distribution of work. So I'm not saying it's not a problem, but I am saying it's a common dynamic and one that tends to change over time, with men assuming more and more work as they get older. So this is something that she can literally wait out.

Please stop posting this “wait it out” nonsense. It’s really not helpful. You neglect to account for the cost today that will leave OP resentful by the time he magically figures out how to do more of the housework when he’s in his fifties.

Anonymous wrote:He came home to tell you about something he was excited about and felt flattered by. You called him lazy and talked about his flaws. I am having trouble understanding how you expected him to react. I know he isn't helping at home, but he's your husband and you should try to muster a little bit of support for him.

Men get better as they get older. They contribute more and make more responsible decisions. Wait him out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

He was asked to interview for a position in his company that, according to him, is a 6 month trial with no pay raise, but it puts him in front of people like the CEO, and gives him management experience. It is VERY demanding, will have zero flexibility on scheduling, and will require travel. In his words, it could either make or break his career - if he does well, it could lead to a permanent position with a very significant pay raise, or if he does poorly, he will basically be stuck in his current role permanently.

I was blunt and told him that his time management sucks, he is lazy

There is a very obvious contradiction here. He would not even be considered for such a position if his time management sucks and he is lazy.

This just sounds like the standard DW whine that DH is not doing everything she wants exactly as she wants it done and (stamps foot) this means he is a good-for-nothing man-baby. Whatever. Go ahead and blow up your family because there are some dirty dishes on the counter.

Oh stop. We literally have zero toilet paper and have had to shower after pooping and I am using my kids’ toothpaste because H didn’t follow through on restocking when he volunteered for the task. Most days he either sleeps in until 10am, or locks himself in the bedroom in the evening to nap until 9pm. This is WAY beyond a few dishes left on the counter.

Why can’t someone run out and get these things? Also, toilet paper and paper towels can delivered once a month by subscription on Amazon. I’m sure other things can be delivered that way too. For your own sanity you should look into that rather than relying on your DH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

He was asked to interview for a position in his company that, according to him, is a 6 month trial with no pay raise, but it puts him in front of people like the CEO, and gives him management experience. It is VERY demanding, will have zero flexibility on scheduling, and will require travel. In his words, it could either make or break his career - if he does well, it could lead to a permanent position with a very significant pay raise, or if he does poorly, he will basically be stuck in his current role permanently.

I was blunt and told him that his time management sucks, he is lazy

There is a very obvious contradiction here. He would not even be considered for such a position if his time management sucks and he is lazy.

This just sounds like the standard DW whine that DH is not doing everything she wants exactly as she wants it done and (stamps foot) this means he is a good-for-nothing man-baby. Whatever. Go ahead and blow up your family because there are some dirty dishes on the counter.

Oh stop. We literally have zero toilet paper and have had to shower after pooping and I am using my kids’ toothpaste because H didn’t follow through on restocking when he volunteered for the task. Most days he either sleeps in until 10am, or locks himself in the bedroom in the evening to nap until 9pm. This is WAY beyond a few dishes left on the counter.

But you know he does nothing. Why did you not have TP delivered? Why do you keep wasting precious time and energy on charts and cards that cannot fix his fundamental selfish laziness? He understands that it is not fair, he is not willing to change.

Anonymous wrote:OP is a nag and needs to be more domestic

Anonymous wrote:The details of my answer depend on if OP works or not. Op, do you work full time in a paid job?

More immediate answers: DH is a jerk with anger issues, the job sounds BS, and I would not stay in a marriage where the dynamic is as described (even ignoring who is at fault, it’s just a toxic result that’s not going to change).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

He was asked to interview for a position in his company that, according to him, is a 6 month trial with no pay raise, but it puts him in front of people like the CEO, and gives him management experience. It is VERY demanding, will have zero flexibility on scheduling, and will require travel. In his words, it could either make or break his career - if he does well, it could lead to a permanent position with a very significant pay raise, or if he does poorly, he will basically be stuck in his current role permanently.

I was blunt and told him that his time management sucks, he is lazy

There is a very obvious contradiction here. He would not even be considered for such a position if his time management sucks and he is lazy.

This just sounds like the standard DW whine that DH is not doing everything she wants exactly as she wants it done and (stamps foot) this means he is a good-for-nothing man-baby. Whatever. Go ahead and blow up your family because there are some dirty dishes on the counter.

Anonymous wrote:Once again: most men should not have children.

I'm sorry, OP. He is going to take that job. You know that. He's obviously very selfish, and it wouldn't surprise me if he gets the big promotion he ends up having an affair because it's all about him, and his wants/needs.

Let him do that, then divorce his a$$ and get $$$ alimony and child support. Yes you will have to contend with being the primary caregiver but you are already doing that. At least you don't have to deal with him. GL

Anonymous wrote:OP is a nag and needs to be more domestic

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

He was asked to interview for a position in his company that, according to him, is a 6 month trial with no pay raise, but it puts him in front of people like the CEO, and gives him management experience. It is VERY demanding, will have zero flexibility on scheduling, and will require travel. In his words, it could either make or break his career - if he does well, it could lead to a permanent position with a very significant pay raise, or if he does poorly, he will basically be stuck in his current role permanently.

I was blunt and told him that his time management sucks, he is lazy

There is a very obvious contradiction here. He would not even be considered for such a position if his time management sucks and he is lazy.

This just sounds like the standard DW whine that DH is not doing everything she wants exactly as she wants it done and (stamps foot) this means he is a good-for-nothing man-baby. Whatever. Go ahead and blow up your family because there are some dirty dishes on the counter.

Oh stop. We literally have zero toilet paper and have had to shower after pooping and I am using my kids’ toothpaste because H didn’t follow through on restocking when he volunteered for the task. Most days he either sleeps in until 10am, or locks himself in the bedroom in the evening to nap until 9pm. This is WAY beyond a few dishes left on the counter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe Op is this clueless and considers herself an adult

I kind of agree.

Why would you just live without toothpaste and toilet paper? How do you not know the basics of your household finances?

OP and her husband both sound like children.

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe Op is this clueless and considers herself an adult

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get rid of the dog. You don’t have the time or the money to take care of it.
Use the doggie daycare money to hire household help. Go to the grocery store and get some toilet paper and toothpaste.
Get rid of the Fair Play cards and stop trying to fix your marriage with internet pop psychology.
Accept that this is the husband you have and the marriage you have. Your marriage is never going to be the way you pictured it, and you can’t force it.
Apologize to your husband for calling him lazy and tell him that you believe in him and will support him with this job interview.

No to the last one for sure

Just ignore him. That’s what he wants anyhow.

Plan your exit.