Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing I'm actually most worried/frustrated about with the vaccine requirement is the situation in which (1) DCPS does not enforce the requirement (despite saying that vaccines are required and the requirement being on the books) and (2) a bunch of small charter schools, fearing the consequences of being out of compliance, do.

I don't have time to dig back into the history of how this requirement came to pass (probably thanks to those COVID crank parents and the council?), but someone in DC health or DC government needs to issue an emergency order suspending the requirement ASAP.

WHY? Please expound on why this vaccine shouldn't be required, like others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing I'm actually most worried/frustrated about with the vaccine requirement is the situation in which (1) DCPS does not enforce the requirement (despite saying that vaccines are required and the requirement being on the books) and (2) a bunch of small charter schools, fearing the consequences of being out of compliance, do.

I don't have time to dig back into the history of how this requirement came to pass (probably thanks to those COVID crank parents and the council?), but someone in DC health or DC government needs to issue an emergency order suspending the requirement ASAP.

WHY? Please expound on why this vaccine shouldn't be required, like others.

DP. Because it doesn't prevent transmission. So it has no impact on others.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing I'm actually most worried/frustrated about with the vaccine requirement is the situation in which (1) DCPS does not enforce the requirement (despite saying that vaccines are required and the requirement being on the books) and (2) a bunch of small charter schools, fearing the consequences of being out of compliance, do.

I don't have time to dig back into the history of how this requirement came to pass (probably thanks to those COVID crank parents and the council?), but someone in DC health or DC government needs to issue an emergency order suspending the requirement ASAP.

WHY? Please expound on why this vaccine shouldn't be required, like others.

Anonymous wrote:The thing I'm actually most worried/frustrated about with the vaccine requirement is the situation in which (1) DCPS does not enforce the requirement (despite saying that vaccines are required and the requirement being on the books) and (2) a bunch of small charter schools, fearing the consequences of being out of compliance, do.

I don't have time to dig back into the history of how this requirement came to pass (probably thanks to those COVID crank parents and the council?), but someone in DC health or DC government needs to issue an emergency order suspending the requirement ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point could there be a legal argument made that adding restrictions to unvaccinated versus vaccinated kids is discrimination? At this point I feel we are really moving towards civil liberty issues.

That’s not how discrimination works.

Discrimination isn't illegal. Discrimination based on protected class is. When I charge a delivery fee for pizza and don't charge people who pick up their own pizza that same fee it is discrimination. And it is legal.

Uh...but if your rule has a disparate impact by race...what then? If the algorithm for IRS audits catches Black people more than white people (just due to filing characteristics correlated with income), is that discriminatory?

You are confusing discrimination BASED on race of protected class with disparate impact. There's a huge body of law on how one does discrimination testing. Your IRS example is nonsense since there are not more black people than white in the US. There are more black people than white in DCPS. There are going to be more black people than white impacted. That's not the threshold.

I'd also note that the vaccination analysis doesn't start with kids being excluded from school. It starts with the vaccination requirement. Are vaccinations available to all classes equally? The downstream impact of exclusion from school is not what is determinative in this case, it is the vaccination status, and that driven by access to vaccines (free and everywhere). The question is whether the underlying policy is illegally discriminating. No one is saying only black people need to get vaccinated.

Here's a thought exercise: Let's say that black families in DC decided that driving while intoxicated was safer (or as safe) as driving while sober. And because of that the black community decided in large numbers to drive drunk and as a consequence of that cultural reality the number of black drivers arrested for DUI skyrocketed. The policy against DUI is a public policy one designed to make roads (and sidewalks) safer for everyone. By your logic if the black community decided that driving while drunk was fine and as a consequence there was disparate impact, we'd have to change laws and allow drunk driving. What we have in vaccinations is a community that is vaccine hesitant. There are historical reasons for it, but the underlying anti-vaccine rhetoric is crap. No different than MAGA world white trash anti-vaxxers.

Ok so the words I should have used were "the algorithm DISPROPORTIONATELY catches Black people".

Anyway, re: your DUI example: https://newsone.com/4183104/data-suggests-police-prey-on-drivers-in-black-dc-neighborhoods-to-the-tune-of-467-million/

There are suggestions that speed cameras in DC are discriminatory.

I’m not sure what point you guys are arguing about. In the disparate impact analysis the defendant has to show that the policy in question is legitimate. Speed cameras are likely legitimate. Vaccination mandates - where vaccines barely impact transmission or infection, and almost all kids have natural immunity anyway - is a truly harder case to prove. By no means would I ever say its a slam dunk, but it’s a case that would be brought for any other policy that kicks 40% of black kids out of school.

Anonymous wrote:The thing I'm actually most worried/frustrated about with the vaccine requirement is the situation in which (1) DCPS does not enforce the requirement (despite saying that vaccines are required and the requirement being on the books) and (2) a bunch of small charter schools, fearing the consequences of being out of compliance, do.

I don't have time to dig back into the history of how this requirement came to pass (probably thanks to those COVID crank parents and the council?), but someone in DC health or DC government needs to issue an emergency order suspending the requirement ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:The thing I'm actually most worried/frustrated about with the vaccine requirement is the situation in which (1) DCPS does not enforce the requirement (despite saying that vaccines are required and the requirement being on the books) and (2) a bunch of small charter schools, fearing the consequences of being out of compliance, do.

I don't have time to dig back into the history of how this requirement came to pass (probably thanks to those COVID crank parents and the council?), but someone in DC health or DC government needs to issue an emergency order suspending the requirement ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point could there be a legal argument made that adding restrictions to unvaccinated versus vaccinated kids is discrimination? At this point I feel we are really moving towards civil liberty issues.

That’s not how discrimination works.

Discrimination isn't illegal. Discrimination based on protected class is. When I charge a delivery fee for pizza and don't charge people who pick up their own pizza that same fee it is discrimination. And it is legal.

Uh...but if your rule has a disparate impact by race...what then? If the algorithm for IRS audits catches Black people more than white people (just due to filing characteristics correlated with income), is that discriminatory?

You are confusing discrimination BASED on race of protected class with disparate impact. There's a huge body of law on how one does discrimination testing. Your IRS example is nonsense since there are not more black people than white in the US. There are more black people than white in DCPS. There are going to be more black people than white impacted. That's not the threshold.

I'd also note that the vaccination analysis doesn't start with kids being excluded from school. It starts with the vaccination requirement. Are vaccinations available to all classes equally? The downstream impact of exclusion from school is not what is determinative in this case, it is the vaccination status, and that driven by access to vaccines (free and everywhere). The question is whether the underlying policy is illegally discriminating. No one is saying only black people need to get vaccinated.

Here's a thought exercise: Let's say that black families in DC decided that driving while intoxicated was safer (or as safe) as driving while sober. And because of that the black community decided in large numbers to drive drunk and as a consequence of that cultural reality the number of black drivers arrested for DUI skyrocketed. The policy against DUI is a public policy one designed to make roads (and sidewalks) safer for everyone. By your logic if the black community decided that driving while drunk was fine and as a consequence there was disparate impact, we'd have to change laws and allow drunk driving. What we have in vaccinations is a community that is vaccine hesitant. There are historical reasons for it, but the underlying anti-vaccine rhetoric is crap. No different than MAGA world white trash anti-vaxxers.

Ok so the words I should have used were "the algorithm DISPROPORTIONATELY catches Black people".

Anyway, re: your DUI example: https://newsone.com/4183104/data-suggests-police-prey-on-drivers-in-black-dc-neighborhoods-to-the-tune-of-467-million/

There are suggestions that speed cameras in DC are discriminatory.

I’m not sure what point you guys are arguing about. In the disparate impact analysis the defendant has to show that the policy in question is legitimate. Speed cameras are likely legitimate. Vaccination mandates - where vaccines barely impact transmission or infection, and almost all kids have natural immunity anyway - is a truly harder case to prove. By no means would I ever say its a slam dunk, but it’s a case that would be brought for any other policy that kicks 40% of black kids out of school.

I see what you did there.

Anonymous wrote:There has always been a vaccine requirement for DCPS, there have always been lots of Black students with no proof of required vaccinations, DCPS has never barred these students from school.

This will not change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point could there be a legal argument made that adding restrictions to unvaccinated versus vaccinated kids is discrimination? At this point I feel we are really moving towards civil liberty issues.

That’s not how discrimination works.

Discrimination isn't illegal. Discrimination based on protected class is. When I charge a delivery fee for pizza and don't charge people who pick up their own pizza that same fee it is discrimination. And it is legal.

Uh...but if your rule has a disparate impact by race...what then? If the algorithm for IRS audits catches Black people more than white people (just due to filing characteristics correlated with income), is that discriminatory?

You are confusing discrimination BASED on race of protected class with disparate impact. There's a huge body of law on how one does discrimination testing. Your IRS example is nonsense since there are not more black people than white in the US. There are more black people than white in DCPS. There are going to be more black people than white impacted. That's not the threshold.

I'd also note that the vaccination analysis doesn't start with kids being excluded from school. It starts with the vaccination requirement. Are vaccinations available to all classes equally? The downstream impact of exclusion from school is not what is determinative in this case, it is the vaccination status, and that driven by access to vaccines (free and everywhere). The question is whether the underlying policy is illegally discriminating. No one is saying only black people need to get vaccinated.

Here's a thought exercise: Let's say that black families in DC decided that driving while intoxicated was safer (or as safe) as driving while sober. And because of that the black community decided in large numbers to drive drunk and as a consequence of that cultural reality the number of black drivers arrested for DUI skyrocketed. The policy against DUI is a public policy one designed to make roads (and sidewalks) safer for everyone. By your logic if the black community decided that driving while drunk was fine and as a consequence there was disparate impact, we'd have to change laws and allow drunk driving. What we have in vaccinations is a community that is vaccine hesitant. There are historical reasons for it, but the underlying anti-vaccine rhetoric is crap. No different than MAGA world white trash anti-vaxxers.

Ok so the words I should have used were "the algorithm DISPROPORTIONATELY catches Black people".

Anyway, re: your DUI example: https://newsone.com/4183104/data-suggests-police-prey-on-drivers-in-black-dc-neighborhoods-to-the-tune-of-467-million/

There are suggestions that speed cameras in DC are discriminatory.

I’m not sure what point you guys are arguing about. In the disparate impact analysis the defendant has to show that the policy in question is legitimate. Speed cameras are likely legitimate. Vaccination mandates - where vaccines barely impact transmission or infection, and almost all kids have natural immunity anyway - is a truly harder case to prove. By no means would I ever say its a slam dunk, but it’s a case that would be brought for any other policy that kicks 40% of black kids out of school.

I see what you did there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point could there be a legal argument made that adding restrictions to unvaccinated versus vaccinated kids is discrimination? At this point I feel we are really moving towards civil liberty issues.

That’s not how discrimination works.

Discrimination isn't illegal. Discrimination based on protected class is. When I charge a delivery fee for pizza and don't charge people who pick up their own pizza that same fee it is discrimination. And it is legal.

Uh...but if your rule has a disparate impact by race...what then? If the algorithm for IRS audits catches Black people more than white people (just due to filing characteristics correlated with income), is that discriminatory?

You are confusing discrimination BASED on race of protected class with disparate impact. There's a huge body of law on how one does discrimination testing. Your IRS example is nonsense since there are not more black people than white in the US. There are more black people than white in DCPS. There are going to be more black people than white impacted. That's not the threshold.

I'd also note that the vaccination analysis doesn't start with kids being excluded from school. It starts with the vaccination requirement. Are vaccinations available to all classes equally? The downstream impact of exclusion from school is not what is determinative in this case, it is the vaccination status, and that driven by access to vaccines (free and everywhere). The question is whether the underlying policy is illegally discriminating. No one is saying only black people need to get vaccinated.

Here's a thought exercise: Let's say that black families in DC decided that driving while intoxicated was safer (or as safe) as driving while sober. And because of that the black community decided in large numbers to drive drunk and as a consequence of that cultural reality the number of black drivers arrested for DUI skyrocketed. The policy against DUI is a public policy one designed to make roads (and sidewalks) safer for everyone. By your logic if the black community decided that driving while drunk was fine and as a consequence there was disparate impact, we'd have to change laws and allow drunk driving. What we have in vaccinations is a community that is vaccine hesitant. There are historical reasons for it, but the underlying anti-vaccine rhetoric is crap. No different than MAGA world white trash anti-vaxxers.

Ok so the words I should have used were "the algorithm DISPROPORTIONATELY catches Black people".

Anyway, re: your DUI example: https://newsone.com/4183104/data-suggests-police-prey-on-drivers-in-black-dc-neighborhoods-to-the-tune-of-467-million/

There are suggestions that speed cameras in DC are discriminatory.

I’m not sure what point you guys are arguing about. In the disparate impact analysis the defendant has to show that the policy in question is legitimate. Speed cameras are likely legitimate. Vaccination mandates - where vaccines barely impact transmission or infection, and almost all kids have natural immunity anyway - is a truly harder case to prove. By no means would I ever say its a slam dunk, but it’s a case that would be brought for any other policy that kicks 40% of black kids out of school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point could there be a legal argument made that adding restrictions to unvaccinated versus vaccinated kids is discrimination? At this point I feel we are really moving towards civil liberty issues.

That’s not how discrimination works.

Discrimination isn't illegal. Discrimination based on protected class is. When I charge a delivery fee for pizza and don't charge people who pick up their own pizza that same fee it is discrimination. And it is legal.

Uh...but if your rule has a disparate impact by race...what then? If the algorithm for IRS audits catches Black people more than white people (just due to filing characteristics correlated with income), is that discriminatory?

You are confusing discrimination BASED on race of protected class with disparate impact. There's a huge body of law on how one does discrimination testing. Your IRS example is nonsense since there are not more black people than white in the US. There are more black people than white in DCPS. There are going to be more black people than white impacted. That's not the threshold.

I'd also note that the vaccination analysis doesn't start with kids being excluded from school. It starts with the vaccination requirement. Are vaccinations available to all classes equally? The downstream impact of exclusion from school is not what is determinative in this case, it is the vaccination status, and that driven by access to vaccines (free and everywhere). The question is whether the underlying policy is illegally discriminating. No one is saying only black people need to get vaccinated.

Here's a thought exercise: Let's say that black families in DC decided that driving while intoxicated was safer (or as safe) as driving while sober. And because of that the black community decided in large numbers to drive drunk and as a consequence of that cultural reality the number of black drivers arrested for DUI skyrocketed. The policy against DUI is a public policy one designed to make roads (and sidewalks) safer for everyone. By your logic if the black community decided that driving while drunk was fine and as a consequence there was disparate impact, we'd have to change laws and allow drunk driving. What we have in vaccinations is a community that is vaccine hesitant. There are historical reasons for it, but the underlying anti-vaccine rhetoric is crap. No different than MAGA world white trash anti-vaxxers.

Ok so the words I should have used were "the algorithm DISPROPORTIONATELY catches Black people".

Anyway, re: your DUI example: https://newsone.com/4183104/data-suggests-police-prey-on-drivers-in-black-dc-neighborhoods-to-the-tune-of-467-million/

There are suggestions that speed cameras in DC are discriminatory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point could there be a legal argument made that adding restrictions to unvaccinated versus vaccinated kids is discrimination? At this point I feel we are really moving towards civil liberty issues.

That’s not how discrimination works.

Discrimination isn't illegal. Discrimination based on protected class is. When I charge a delivery fee for pizza and don't charge people who pick up their own pizza that same fee it is discrimination. And it is legal.

Uh...but if your rule has a disparate impact by race...what then? If the algorithm for IRS audits catches Black people more than white people (just due to filing characteristics correlated with income), is that discriminatory?

You are confusing discrimination BASED on race of protected class with disparate impact. There's a huge body of law on how one does discrimination testing. Your IRS example is nonsense since there are not more black people than white in the US. There are more black people than white in DCPS. There are going to be more black people than white impacted. That's not the threshold.

I'd also note that the vaccination analysis doesn't start with kids being excluded from school. It starts with the vaccination requirement. Are vaccinations available to all classes equally? The downstream impact of exclusion from school is not what is determinative in this case, it is the vaccination status, and that driven by access to vaccines (free and everywhere). The question is whether the underlying policy is illegally discriminating. No one is saying only black people need to get vaccinated.

Here's a thought exercise: Let's say that black families in DC decided that driving while intoxicated was safer (or as safe) as driving while sober. And because of that the black community decided in large numbers to drive drunk and as a consequence of that cultural reality the number of black drivers arrested for DUI skyrocketed. The policy against DUI is a public policy one designed to make roads (and sidewalks) safer for everyone. By your logic if the black community decided that driving while drunk was fine and as a consequence there was disparate impact, we'd have to change laws and allow drunk driving. What we have in vaccinations is a community that is vaccine hesitant. There are historical reasons for it, but the underlying anti-vaccine rhetoric is crap. No different than MAGA world white trash anti-vaxxers.

Ok so the words I should have used were "the algorithm DISPROPORTIONATELY catches Black people".

Anyway, re: your DUI example: https://newsone.com/4183104/data-suggests-police-prey-on-drivers-in-black-dc-neighborhoods-to-the-tune-of-467-million/

There are suggestions that speed cameras in DC are discriminatory.