Good ol Jeffrey:

The neocon track record is one of unmitigated disaster, yet Biden has staffed his team with neocons. As a result, Biden is steering Ukraine, the U.S. and the European Union towards yet another geopolitical debacle. If Europe has any insight, it will separate itself from these U.S. foreign policy debacles.
..

The main message of the neocons is that the U.S. must predominate in military power in every region of the world and must confront rising regional powers that could someday challenge U.S. global or regional dominance, most important Russia and China. For this purpose, U.S. military force should be pre-positioned in hundreds of military bases around the world and the U.S. should be prepared to lead wars of choice as necessary. The United Nations is to be used by the U.S. only when useful for U.S. purposes.

..
he most likely outcome of the current fighting is that Russia will conquer a large swath of Ukraine, perhaps leaving Ukraine landlocked or nearly so. Frustration will rise in Europe and the U.S. with the military losses and the stagflationary consequences of war and sanctions.

The knock-on effects could be devastating, if a right-wing demagogue in the U.S. rises to power (or in the case of Trump, returns to power) promising to restore America’s faded military glory through dangerous escalation.

Instead of risking this disaster, the real solution is to end the neocon fantasies of the past 30 years and for Ukraine and Russia to return to the negotiating table, with NATO committing to end its commitment to the eastward enlargement to Ukraine and Georgia in return for a viable peace that respects and protects Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.


https://consortiumnews.com/2022/07/01/ukraine-is-the-latest-neocon-disaster/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I saw several reports showing Ukraine had done some major strikes on the base that Russia was trying to set up on Snake Island, along with hitting support boats adjacent to the island.


Ok I believe you
Maybe it was a good deal for them to withdraw while also getting some leeway with transit to their enclave

Maybe they should never have invaded and they would still have all the leeway they wanted to their enclave (and not just "some").

This is moral judgment, and I am just trying to analyze what’s going on. I agree it was a bad idea to invade though

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


I saw several reports showing Ukraine had done some major strikes on the base that Russia was trying to set up on Snake Island, along with hitting support boats adjacent to the island.


Ok I believe you
Maybe it was a good deal for them to withdraw while also getting some leeway with transit to their enclave

Maybe they should never have invaded and they would still have all the leeway they wanted to their enclave (and not just "some").

Another sensible post.

Anonymous wrote:


I saw several reports showing Ukraine had done some major strikes on the base that Russia was trying to set up on Snake Island, along with hitting support boats adjacent to the island.


Ok I believe you
Maybe it was a good deal for them to withdraw while also getting some leeway with transit to their enclave

Maybe they should never have invaded and they would still have all the leeway they wanted to their enclave (and not just "some").

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Ukraine kept bombing the piss out of them.

On Snake island? I don’t have any info to prove or disprove it, I have never read anything about military action there after the famous Russian ship meme.
I also checked some Russian non-state sources (I can read Russian) and it seems like snake island withdrawal was in exchange for the EU and Lithuania softening their stance on Kaliningrad transit.

I saw several reports showing Ukraine had done some major strikes on the base that Russia was trying to set up on Snake Island, along with hitting support boats adjacent to the island.

Ok I believe you
Maybe it was a good deal for them to withdraw while also getting some leeway with transit to their enclave

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Ukraine kept bombing the piss out of them.

On Snake island? I don’t have any info to prove or disprove it, I have never read anything about military action there after the famous Russian ship meme.
I also checked some Russian non-state sources (I can read Russian) and it seems like snake island withdrawal was in exchange for the EU and Lithuania softening their stance on Kaliningrad transit.

PP, you have added a lot of sense here. Are you sure you’re in the right place?

This thread is surprisingly sensible compared to the previous ones

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Ukraine kept bombing the piss out of them.

On Snake island? I don’t have any info to prove or disprove it, I have never read anything about military action there after the famous Russian ship meme.
I also checked some Russian non-state sources (I can read Russian) and it seems like snake island withdrawal was in exchange for the EU and Lithuania softening their stance on Kaliningrad transit.

I saw several reports showing Ukraine had done some major strikes on the base that Russia was trying to set up on Snake Island, along with hitting support boats adjacent to the island.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Ukraine kept bombing the piss out of them.

On Snake island? I don’t have any info to prove or disprove it, I have never read anything about military action there after the famous Russian ship meme.
I also checked some Russian non-state sources (I can read Russian) and it seems like snake island withdrawal was in exchange for the EU and Lithuania softening their stance on Kaliningrad transit.

PP, you have added a lot of sense here. Are you sure you’re in the right place?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Ukraine kept bombing the piss out of them.

On Snake island? I don’t have any info to prove or disprove it, I have never read anything about military action there after the famous Russian ship meme.
I also checked some Russian non-state sources (I can read Russian) and it seems like snake island withdrawal was in exchange for the EU and Lithuania softening their stance on Kaliningrad transit.

Anonymous wrote:Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Ukraine kept bombing the piss out of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No matter how you slice it Russia will have severely restricted access to cutting edge technology; heck, to any modern tech. China won’t help much for a host of reasons.
This alone is a great danger to economy.
I don’t know how the war will pan out but i am sad for this great country’s future! I can’t hate Russia because there’s too much good in it - not its leadership alas - but it’s all in jeopardy now.

Show evidence that China won’t help.

That's not what they do.

And 35 years ago the Chinese didn’t make any world-class consumer goods. Now they make many of them. Don’t count on the Chinese behaving to the US’s benefit.

The only benefit they care about is their own. They won’t help unless there is a very compelling reason and very low risk of secondary sanctions

Don’t be surprised if thinking of their own benefit puts them at odds with the US. And don’t forget they are very capable.

It may, or it may not. They are still too intertwined with the US to openly defy it. They will say all the right words to show how independent they are but then their actions will speak differently.
Anyway, not saying China can’t do anything, rather that it won’t - not for the sake of Russia that’s for sure.

Anonymous wrote:
News today. Russia is leaving Snake Island. Ukraine defeated their missile defenses. That puts Odessa into a safe zone and insures grain transport. It also is means less threat to Romania, a NATO country.

So what. Its a staging area with no city

Russia is making it out to be a goodwill gesture (leaving the island) so that the grain ships can leave Ukraine as agreed internationally

Article on Snake Island:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-steps-up-attacks-ukraine-after-landmark-nato-summit-2022-06-30/

News today. Russia is leaving Snake Island. Ukraine defeated their missile defenses. That puts Odessa into a safe zone and insures grain transport. It also is means less threat to Romania, a NATO country.