Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:56
Subject: I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If the GOP had its way, yes you would need a real id, since that is the standard now.
Fortunately, since states still have the right to outline the type of ID, this is not the case - nor will it be.
Unless, of course, the Dems federalize elections and insist Real ID is the only acceptable form of ID.
So, just need to point out at this point.... The GOP has its way in states run by the GOP. Not one of the states requires Real ID.
So, your comment is not only false, it is dumb.
They restricted many other forms of ID which were previously acceptable, even including student ID issued by a state university. Why? Can you show me evidence of universities fraudulently handing out ID like candy to anyone who wants it? Can you show me evidence of large scale voter fraud involving student ID? What's the rationale for restricting them?
Without a legitimately justifiable rationale, the law changes being made in GOP states are at the very least dumb, and at worst, specifically intended to disenfranchise.
Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:28
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:These examples of having trouble getting an ID are not compelling.
Yes, you have to have proper documentation and yes it can be a pain in the butt to get it straight. But when something is important enough to you, you will get it done.
I had a similar issue as one of the examples. My maiden name was swapped for my middle name on my drivers license. But my original name was on my passport. I could not pass the requirements to get an ID at my new place of work. No other place in the 20 years I’d been married cared. Not for global entry, not for previous employment that did background checks, nothing. But now I was not going to be issued this work ID, thus would not remain employed, if I could not get it fixed.
It took effort. But it was important enough to get it all straightened out.
Paperwork is a b$&ch but it’s also pretty fundamental to having a society that functions optimally.
Sorry, but +1
-2
Regardless of whether it's Real ID or not there is still a ton of bureaucracy involved.
The extreme bureaucracy and dysfunction of DMVs makes it highly likely that people will end up losing out on voting, for example even the time it takes to get an appointment with the DMV.
And still none of the pro-ID proponents have made any sort of compelling case whatsoever for why this is actually such a necessity. The number of proven cases of in-person voter fraud are extremely low, nowhere near enough to even influence election outcomes. And some of the laws are completely inconsistent. If a gun carry permit is allowed then why not a student ID? What gives a gun owner more right to easily vote than a college student?
Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:12
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
These people that don’t have proper IDs are pretty privileged to have gotten through so much of their life here without worrying about what might happen to them without proper documentation.
So many that immigrate here and become US citizens understand the importance of documents.
Saying voting is a right is nice but what comes with rights is responsibility. Being a U.S. citizen comes with some responsibility. Making sure you are able to exercise your right to vote by keeping track of what documents you need to ensure that right is part of being a citizen.
It would be more beneficial to have more organizations that can work with people that need help with getting their documents in order so they can exercise their right to vote. Go out into the community and get these folks on board and help them get their IDs.
Like that saying about teaching them how to fish. If junior sees that grandpa can get it done, then it will not feel like as big of an obstacle for junior. Baby steps that ensures every citizen knows what to do and can get the help to do it.
So many that immigrate here and become US citizens understand the importance of documents.
Saying voting is a right is nice but what comes with rights is responsibility. Being a U.S. citizen comes with some responsibility. Making sure you are able to exercise your right to vote by keeping track of what documents you need to ensure that right is part of being a citizen.
It would be more beneficial to have more organizations that can work with people that need help with getting their documents in order so they can exercise their right to vote. Go out into the community and get these folks on board and help them get their IDs.
Like that saying about teaching them how to fish. If junior sees that grandpa can get it done, then it will not feel like as big of an obstacle for junior. Baby steps that ensures every citizen knows what to do and can get the help to do it.
Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:10
Subject: I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:If the GOP had its way, yes you would need a real id, since that is the standard now.
Fortunately, since states still have the right to outline the type of ID, this is not the case - nor will it be.
Unless, of course, the Dems federalize elections and insist Real ID is the only acceptable form of ID.
So, just need to point out at this point.... The GOP has its way in states run by the GOP. Not one of the states requires Real ID.
So, your comment is not only false, it is dumb.
Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:09
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.
"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.
The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047
Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?
I find that the people who say it’s not that hard to get an ID have lead a pretty easy life in that they’ve had steady, good paying jobs, access to transportation, probably haven’t had to move much, have enough money to pay for duplicate documents, access to a easy access to a computer to locate documents, and has bills, leases, property, etc. in their own name.
I took a break from my career to stay home with my kids. While I was a SAHM I had to renew my license and the Real ID law had gone into effect. I’m a lawyer and pulling all the required documents was no joke. I was lucky—I had a passport because we are affluent enough to be able to take a vacation outside of the US and I also needed it for work. If I didn’t have the passport I would have needed more documents. I was also lucky that we own a home and both of our names are on the tax bill. Having that document made things easier. Fortunately when we bought our house we shared the responsibility of calling and establishing various utility accounts so some of the utilities were in my name. That helped too. Oh, yes, I had a 401k and investment accounts in my own name so that helped. You may say it’s no big deal getting an ID but actually it is not easy and many states require an ID that actually requires you to produce a monumental amount of documents,the vast majority of which are easier to obtain the more affluence you have.
Voting is a Constitutional right. Entering a restaurant or going to a concert isn’t.
Why do people need to make this so difficult? 1) Birth certificate or passport, 2) social security card or W2 and 3) two current bills or driver's license or mortgage/rent statement. You can order a birth certificate online if you don't have yours (it's not expensive or difficult), everyone should have #2 and #3. Why are people so flustered by this?
Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:05
Subject: I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
If the GOP had its way, yes you would need a real id, since that is the standard now.
Anonymous
01/14/2022 07:03
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.
"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.
The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047
Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?
So you think that a man who was once third in line to the Presidency, just like Nancy Pelosi and Paul Ryan should be denied his right to vote because he's too old to have a driver's license as well as administrative BS. OK.
Truly the greatest country in the world. /s
He should have to follow the rules like anyone else. Are you suggesting the elites get special privileges over ordinary people?
Anonymous
01/14/2022 06:22
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.
"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.
The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047
Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?
I find that the people who say it’s not that hard to get an ID have lead a pretty easy life in that they’ve had steady, good paying jobs, access to transportation, probably haven’t had to move much, have enough money to pay for duplicate documents, access to a easy access to a computer to locate documents, and has bills, leases, property, etc. in their own name.
I took a break from my career to stay home with my kids. While I was a SAHM I had to renew my license and the Real ID law had gone into effect. I’m a lawyer and pulling all the required documents was no joke. I was lucky—I had a passport because we are affluent enough to be able to take a vacation outside of the US and I also needed it for work. If I didn’t have the passport I would have needed more documents. I was also lucky that we own a home and both of our names are on the tax bill. Having that document made things easier. Fortunately when we bought our house we shared the responsibility of calling and establishing various utility accounts so some of the utilities were in my name. That helped too. Oh, yes, I had a 401k and investment accounts in my own name so that helped. You may say it’s no big deal getting an ID but actually it is not easy and many states require an ID that actually requires you to produce a monumental amount of documents,the vast majority of which are easier to obtain the more affluence you have.
Voting is a Constitutional right. Entering a restaurant or going to a concert isn’t.
So sad you had to work to get your Real ID.
But, you do realize that nobody needs a Real ID to vote, right? The hoops you jumped through were a result of you wanting to get a Real ID.
Most states that require photo ID give it away for free and the documentation needed is nothing like getting a Real ID.
Anonymous
01/14/2022 03:13
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.
"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.
The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047
Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?
I find that the people who say it’s not that hard to get an ID have lead a pretty easy life in that they’ve had steady, good paying jobs, access to transportation, probably haven’t had to move much, have enough money to pay for duplicate documents, access to a easy access to a computer to locate documents, and has bills, leases, property, etc. in their own name.
I took a break from my career to stay home with my kids. While I was a SAHM I had to renew my license and the Real ID law had gone into effect. I’m a lawyer and pulling all the required documents was no joke. I was lucky—I had a passport because we are affluent enough to be able to take a vacation outside of the US and I also needed it for work. If I didn’t have the passport I would have needed more documents. I was also lucky that we own a home and both of our names are on the tax bill. Having that document made things easier. Fortunately when we bought our house we shared the responsibility of calling and establishing various utility accounts so some of the utilities were in my name. That helped too. Oh, yes, I had a 401k and investment accounts in my own name so that helped. You may say it’s no big deal getting an ID but actually it is not easy and many states require an ID that actually requires you to produce a monumental amount of documents,the vast majority of which are easier to obtain the more affluence you have.
Voting is a Constitutional right. Entering a restaurant or going to a concert isn’t.
Anonymous
01/14/2022 00:01
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:These examples of having trouble getting an ID are not compelling.
Yes, you have to have proper documentation and yes it can be a pain in the butt to get it straight. But when something is important enough to you, you will get it done.
I had a similar issue as one of the examples. My maiden name was swapped for my middle name on my drivers license. But my original name was on my passport. I could not pass the requirements to get an ID at my new place of work. No other place in the 20 years I’d been married cared. Not for global entry, not for previous employment that did background checks, nothing. But now I was not going to be issued this work ID, thus would not remain employed, if I could not get it fixed.
It took effort. But it was important enough to get it all straightened out.
Paperwork is a b$&ch but it’s also pretty fundamental to having a society that functions optimally.
Voting is a right. It isn’t supposed to be a bureaucratic maze. Have you ever known any poor people? They aren’t as likely to live at the same address for 30 years. They move around, their situations and relationships change. It’s common for some people to have IDs that they have expired, have old addresses, different names, old photos, etc. that won’t be accepted. They may live with family, friends, other people and don’t have leases or bills in their names. They don’t update everything every time something changes. These are real people who have rights and have plenty at stake in every election. It affects blacks disproportionately because local government officials are more likely to target them and reject their imperfect documents over minor technicalities but let white grandmas with similar documents vote.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 23:35
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
The Republicans pushing the requirement are convinced that it suppressed black votes. That’s the purpose of the push. There is no other motive.
+1
I see. So in 2022 - with all of the outreach - blacks can not vote. No other group. Is that what your argument is?
You are dense.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 23:18
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.
"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.
The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047
Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?
So you think that a man who was once third in line to the Presidency, just like Nancy Pelosi and Paul Ryan should be denied his right to vote because he's too old to have a driver's license as well as administrative BS. OK.
Truly the greatest country in the world. /s
Anonymous
01/13/2022 23:03
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just give me a reasonable example of someone who can’t get an ID
“Just how tough are new voter identification requirements in Texas? Apparently tough enough that former U.S. House speaker Jim Wright reportedly was denied a voter ID card on Saturday.
"Nobody was ugly to us, but they insisted that they wouldn't give me an ID," Wright, a Democrat who resigned from Congress in 1989, told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram in a story about his experience at a Texas Department of Public Safety office.
The 90-year-old told the newspaper he realized last week that he didn't have a valid ID to vote in Tuesday's elections. He said he was refused a voter ID card because his driver's license expired in 2010 and his faculty identification from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, where he teaches, doesn't meet requirements under the state law enacted in 2011.”
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3422047
Maybe don’t wait until day of as your only option?
Anonymous
01/13/2022 23:01
Subject: Re:I'm a rationale conservative - can you convince me voting rights legislation is needed?
Anonymous wrote:These examples of having trouble getting an ID are not compelling.
Yes, you have to have proper documentation and yes it can be a pain in the butt to get it straight. But when something is important enough to you, you will get it done.
I had a similar issue as one of the examples. My maiden name was swapped for my middle name on my drivers license. But my original name was on my passport. I could not pass the requirements to get an ID at my new place of work. No other place in the 20 years I’d been married cared. Not for global entry, not for previous employment that did background checks, nothing. But now I was not going to be issued this work ID, thus would not remain employed, if I could not get it fixed.
It took effort. But it was important enough to get it all straightened out.
Paperwork is a b$&ch but it’s also pretty fundamental to having a society that functions optimally.
Sorry, but +1
Anonymous