Anonymous
09/19/2021 22:12
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Aren’t there pretty obvious physical signs of heat death? Not to be graphic…
Only if the body is found very soon. The bodies were presumably outdoors from Sunday until Wednesday in hot dry weather.
I thought the bodies were found TUESDAY morning?
They were discovered Tuesday but not collected from the area until Wednesday. Officers stayed overnight to guard the bodies.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 22:01
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:I don't think the pot laced with fentanyl is the same pot that these upper class people would buy. Fancier people don't buy pot from strange street people.
Bingo. It’s legal. You can get it good stiff from a dispensary. That cannabis is regulated amd there is not fentanyl.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 21:59
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
I don't think the pot laced with fentanyl is the same pot that these upper class people would buy. Fancier people don't buy pot from strange street people.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 21:57
Subject: What happened to this California family?
“From everyone we talk to they were extremely happy,” Briese said. “They were able to work from home and enjoy nature, and in the short time they were here they made a lot of friends.”
This doesn’t sound like isolation! However, it doesn’t mean they were happy just because people think they were. Again, common courtesy makes us project what is expected.
This doesn’t sound like isolation! However, it doesn’t mean they were happy just because people think they were. Again, common courtesy makes us project what is expected.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 21:51
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For those saying drugs, how on earth do you think these drugs would end up in the baby and dog?
Does anyone know if either the mom or dad tried tried calling or texting for help on their cell phones before they died? Even if there’s no signal, I’d imagine their phones would have a Call History showing what calls or texts they tried to make before they died.
If they were in a healthy frame of mind when they first got into distress, I would hope they at least attempted to call for help. And I certainly hope they didn’t leave their cell phones in the hot car or at home. Of going on a long hot hike with a baby, they should have both taken their cell in case of emergency.
Sigh... read please.
Nobody ever said the baby & dog took drugs, they said that the parents could've died first and the baby and dog died of exposure, as they were left all alone.
It would make sense for the dog to stay with the bodies, as there have been countless reports of owners killed or died and the dog stays right by the body to protect it.
The dog could've been protecting the bodies of Jon and the baby... it's not outlandish.
It’s not outlandish for the dog to stay with the bodies….up until the point the dog would die from exposure. That’s not how dogs operate. The dog would fight to live.
Dog may of been too overheated/dehydrated to move at that point and just died.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 21:39
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Aren’t there pretty obvious physical signs of heat death? Not to be graphic…
Only if the body is found very soon. The bodies were presumably outdoors from Sunday until Wednesday in hot dry weather.
I thought the bodies were found TUESDAY morning?
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:58
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:For those saying drugs, how on earth do you think these drugs would end up in the baby and dog?
Does anyone know if either the mom or dad tried tried calling or texting for help on their cell phones before they died? Even if there’s no signal, I’d imagine their phones would have a Call History showing what calls or texts they tried to make before they died.
If they were in a healthy frame of mind when they first got into distress, I would hope they at least attempted to call for help. And I certainly hope they didn’t leave their cell phones in the hot car or at home. Of going on a long hot hike with a baby, they should have both taken their cell in case of emergency.
Sigh... read please.
Nobody ever said the baby & dog took drugs, they said that the parents could've died first and the baby and dog died of exposure, as they were left all alone.
It would make sense for the dog to stay with the bodies, as there have been countless reports of owners killed or died and the dog stays right by the body to protect it.
The dog could've been protecting the bodies of Jon and the baby... it's not outlandish.
It’s not outlandish for the dog to stay with the bodies….up until the point the dog would die from exposure. That’s not how dogs operate. The dog would fight to live.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:56
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:The post-mortem diagnosis of heat-related deaths presents certain difficulties.
Firstly, pre-terminal or terminal body temperatures are often not available. Additionally, naked-eye and microscopic findings are non-specific or inconclusive and depend on the duration of survival after exposure.
The diagnosis of hyperthermia is based on scene investigation, the circumstances of death, and the reasonable exclusion of other causes of death.
A heat-related cause of death may be assumed if the investigations provide compelling evidence of continuous exposure to a hot environment, and fail to identify an independent cause of death (Nixdorf-Miller et al 2006, and Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
The non-specific post-mortem findings in cases of fatal heatstroke include: pulmonary and cerebral oedema, necrosis of the liver, neuronal degeneration of the brain, rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of muscle), tubular casts in the kidneys and signs of disseminated intravascular coagulation e.g. fibrin thrombi in small blood vessels (Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
The post-mortem biochemistry findings are related to dehydration, electrolyte disturbance and skeletal muscle damage. They include increased serum creatinine, mild-to-moderate elevation of urea, and myoglobinuria, however, the diagnosis of heat-related fatalities cannot be based on post-mortem biochemical analyses alone (Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
Read more: http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/pathophysiology-of-heat-related-illness-and-death/
According to the last paragraph there would likely be one sign in one of them, I think.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:53
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Or they passed out and then they died.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:52
Subject: What happened to this California family?
My theory. They took drugs for the hike. When they realized the baby was dead from the heat they sat down and smoked some pot. Unfortunately it was laced with fentanyl. The dog was already dying from the heat. Both the parents were poisoned by what they smoked. They died.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:50
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:For those saying drugs, how on earth do you think these drugs would end up in the baby and dog?
Does anyone know if either the mom or dad tried tried calling or texting for help on their cell phones before they died? Even if there’s no signal, I’d imagine their phones would have a Call History showing what calls or texts they tried to make before they died.
If they were in a healthy frame of mind when they first got into distress, I would hope they at least attempted to call for help. And I certainly hope they didn’t leave their cell phones in the hot car or at home. Of going on a long hot hike with a baby, they should have both taken their cell in case of emergency.
Sigh... read please.
Nobody ever said the baby & dog took drugs, they said that the parents could've died first and the baby and dog died of exposure, as they were left all alone.
It would make sense for the dog to stay with the bodies, as there have been countless reports of owners killed or died and the dog stays right by the body to protect it.
The dog could've been protecting the bodies of Jon and the baby... it's not outlandish.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:29
Subject: What happened to this California family?
The post-mortem diagnosis of heat-related deaths presents certain difficulties.
Firstly, pre-terminal or terminal body temperatures are often not available. Additionally, naked-eye and microscopic findings are non-specific or inconclusive and depend on the duration of survival after exposure.
The diagnosis of hyperthermia is based on scene investigation, the circumstances of death, and the reasonable exclusion of other causes of death.
A heat-related cause of death may be assumed if the investigations provide compelling evidence of continuous exposure to a hot environment, and fail to identify an independent cause of death (Nixdorf-Miller et al 2006, and Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
The non-specific post-mortem findings in cases of fatal heatstroke include: pulmonary and cerebral oedema, necrosis of the liver, neuronal degeneration of the brain, rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of muscle), tubular casts in the kidneys and signs of disseminated intravascular coagulation e.g. fibrin thrombi in small blood vessels (Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
The post-mortem biochemistry findings are related to dehydration, electrolyte disturbance and skeletal muscle damage. They include increased serum creatinine, mild-to-moderate elevation of urea, and myoglobinuria, however, the diagnosis of heat-related fatalities cannot be based on post-mortem biochemical analyses alone (Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
Read more: http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/pathophysiology-of-heat-related-illness-and-death/
Firstly, pre-terminal or terminal body temperatures are often not available. Additionally, naked-eye and microscopic findings are non-specific or inconclusive and depend on the duration of survival after exposure.
The diagnosis of hyperthermia is based on scene investigation, the circumstances of death, and the reasonable exclusion of other causes of death.
A heat-related cause of death may be assumed if the investigations provide compelling evidence of continuous exposure to a hot environment, and fail to identify an independent cause of death (Nixdorf-Miller et al 2006, and Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
The non-specific post-mortem findings in cases of fatal heatstroke include: pulmonary and cerebral oedema, necrosis of the liver, neuronal degeneration of the brain, rhabdomyolysis (breakdown of muscle), tubular casts in the kidneys and signs of disseminated intravascular coagulation e.g. fibrin thrombi in small blood vessels (Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
The post-mortem biochemistry findings are related to dehydration, electrolyte disturbance and skeletal muscle damage. They include increased serum creatinine, mild-to-moderate elevation of urea, and myoglobinuria, however, the diagnosis of heat-related fatalities cannot be based on post-mortem biochemical analyses alone (Palmiere and Mangin 2013).
Read more: http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/pathophysiology-of-heat-related-illness-and-death/
Anonymous
09/19/2021 20:08
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Boy I hope this was anything but FA or MS.
I’ve bounced from forum to forum to chat groups. Almost unanimously people expect this was a premeditated MS.
Only a heavily censored forum thinks heat stroke, but they are not allowed to discuss other possibilities.
I really can’t make up my mind.
I’ve bounced from forum to forum to chat groups. Almost unanimously people expect this was a premeditated MS.
Only a heavily censored forum thinks heat stroke, but they are not allowed to discuss other possibilities.
I really can’t make up my mind.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 19:42
Subject: Re:What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mariposa has a population of less than 2,000 and they were not even that close to the town.
I think he actually liked it there, he had been buying property there long before Ellen.
But for covid, not sure their lifestyle would have changed so suddenly and radically.
I wonder if he had kids from his prior marriage that he wanted to be closer to?
30 is young for a mom in SF, I doubt many of their burner friends were having families yet.
She looked really different in the 1 year photos.
Many who are drawn to study counseling are trying to figure out their family of origin or own deep seated mental health problems.
In more populated areas, moms with potential PPD would be encouraged to connect and socialize with other moms of babies, the median age in Mariposa is in their 50s and it was a 20 mile drive. The whole set up sounds really difficult. Maybe the idea of another winter there seemed like too much, so isolated. And if Jon was very doting with the baby, she may have felt jealous or left out. I have seen that happen.
Not many places for "date nights" or to dj. I assume they would avoid SF b/c baby and covid. I imagine his apartment there was rented out.
I still think it could have been accidental, but risk taking/dopamine chasing played a role and the extreme heat had to be a factor, even if it was one of several.
That's nonsense. All of your post is pure speculation but that part is nonsense.
Are you a parent? Or are you one of the true crime types who has descended on this parenting board?
Social support is very important for new moms, esp new moms who are struggling. Your ignorance is troubling.
https://www.postpartumdepression.com/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201301/new-moms-need-social-support
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4720860/
https://www.medibank.com.au/livebetter/families/new-parents/the-hidden-benefits-of-mothers-groups/
Being very socially isolated is not healthy. In fact, isolating is a common sign of depression. https://publichealth.tulane.edu/blog/effects-of-social-isolation-on-mental-health/
I think she wants to argue. If she finds the discussion upsetting, idk why she reads.
Thank you for informative links.
As far as isolation there really was no way for a pregnant woman to avoid it in the midst of a global pandemic. That had to be difficult, probably months passed with no socialization other than online. Any outings probably consisted of seeing her doctor and doula.
NP but I think the poster above was just saying it’s “nonsense” that in more populated areas you can automatically expect moms w PPD to be directed to support groups or mom groups. Like it’s a given that anyone w potential PPD would find the support they need if they live in a city vs in a rural area. The reality is people suffer w PPD no matter where they live although it does make finding support easier if you live in a place w a wider network of people/resources.
Anonymous
09/19/2021 19:30
Subject: What happened to this California family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Aren’t there pretty obvious physical signs of heat death? Not to be graphic…
Only if the body is found very soon. The bodies were presumably outdoors from Sunday until Wednesday in hot dry weather.
I’ve read that it would be very unlikely for seasoned pathologists to NOT find signs in one of 3. Some things don’t need test results to be diagnosed. Experts know but until they have test results, they won’t make an official announcement.
Kind of like going to the dentist with an abscess. He knows by looking but still performs an X-ray.