Anonymous wrote:I’m against ALL MLMs. They prey on naive women, and I hate literally everything about them!

I think MLMs are rife in Christianity because of a preponderance of SAHMs and homeschool moms in Christian churches (mostly by choice, before someone gets on a church-is-misogynist tangent. My friends and I are all women with at least one degree who gladly & willingly chose staying home over working. The ones who didn’t like it went back to work.) Plus churchgoers have a vast community to target that non-churchgoers often lack. Same with why they are huge with Mormons.

Which is the main reason why I hate MLMs, because they prey on moms who may feel guilty that they aren’t contributing financially to their families. Evil.

Anonymous wrote:At first there was a full force rejection of Brandon and an alignment with Jen after the “bombshell.” But it appears all but Sidney have reconciled with their dad now. His motorcycle club also kept him close throughout.

It takes a lot of skill to build a church from the ground up in a new city to several hundred members at its height. Brandon was at the head of that project so I don’t think it’s honest to say he has no skills. There is both leadership(perhaps flawed) and organizational aptitude Brandon has shown over and over. He got the legacy collective up and running. Sure we strongly suspect inappropriate use of funds at his discretion but it was built on his watch.
Whoever hired him to sell the Texas ranches chose well if you want a guy who tries real hard to look Texan and has a natural ability to win people over to a vision. He is manly and at ease with himself, it’s a nice combo for selling luxury ranches.

I’m not pro or con Brandon or Jen but I will honor they are builders. They’ve created a whole lot of something out of nothing over the years. I grieve at how broken and lost they’ve become but I still hold out hope they will have an encounter with the living God that rights their many wrongs. Their story is still being written.

Except as many exANC’ers have testified here, they actually did very little of the work. It was other people who did most of it. Brandon did some. Jen did very little. 4-5 other families organized & ran that church and when they and the other 3/4 left, it crumbled to the pitiful little mess it is today.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the cash crunch would have happened even without the divorce.

They Hatmakers aren’t on TV anymore and she’s not doing tours and her only book coming out is a cook book, it appears.

How much money could the book club and the podcast be bringing in?

Ads for a podcast with her size audience are bringing in BANK as are her social media collaborations. Not arguing about the possibility of difficult financial times… just weighing in as I work in social media and an account/following of her size is no joke when it comes to $$$

Can you throw some numbers out? She has ~550K Instagram followers.

Anonymous wrote:I think the cash crunch would have happened even without the divorce.

They Hatmakers aren’t on TV anymore and she’s not doing tours and her only book coming out is a cook book, it appears.

How much money could the book club and the podcast be bringing in?

Ads for a podcast with her size audience are bringing in BANK as are her social media collaborations. Not arguing about the possibility of difficult financial times… just weighing in as I work in social media and an account/following of her size is no joke when it comes to $$$

I’m against ALL MLMs. They prey on naive women, and I hate literally everything about them!

You have a point, MLM’s are rife in evangelical circles. It is couched as a way for women to bring in extra income to help their families. I’ve known a couple who attained those coveted highest level diamond/presidential statuses. I personally have deep distrust of anyone obsessively involved in a MLM because their motives get muddle with the desire to climb those awards mountains. The two I know are remarkable women who champion others well. They love what they do and the women they lead love them. Not sure it’s the best way to get products due to the extra expense tacked on to pay the pyramid but if people like the products, and the sellers and they don’t care about the extra cost it’s none of my business.
I guess Jen is MLM marketer of sorts but the product is her, and she’s her own up line.
Btw I almost always wind up briefly trying the products of these MLM “friends” at least once because I’m a sucker for stay at home mom saleswomen. It’s like my way to support mamas hustling a buck, knowing full well I could find similar products elsewhere for less.

I heard Jen speak at a local church out here in SoCal about 10 years ago, and it was a great teaching weekend. She referenced rabbinical teaching styles and it was incredibly interesting. She also talked about the author Lois Tverberg and her books about Rabbi Jesus- I read those and they had a profound impact on my understanding of Jesus and on my faith itself. So I am grateful for her introducing me to that teaching. But, wow, how she has actually fallen away since. Like a lot of you, I pray for her and we know her journey isn't over yet. But I am scared she is leading so many astray.

Has anyone seen the boys, besides Ben, with Tyler yet? I don't think they are totally on board with mom's new bf. But on Glennon's podcast Tyler boasted about reaching out to all of Jen's kids to do something for her Mother's Day or somesuch.

big time against MLMs. they are toxic, predatory schemes that take advantage of people looking for the promise of quick money while undermining true friendships and connections between women

100%.

My ex SIL attends a church in Phoenix that appears to commingle the church and the MLMs. Jesus would be overturning tables in that place, for sure. So many of the gals in leadership roles are the big upstream bosses- it's sick.

There is an irony in a woman creating a me course on how to deconstruct then reconstruct one’s faith when she has devolved into a shilling machine completely disconnected from any genuine accountability.

Jen's publicist, Heather Adams, is a hyper hustler so I am sure she's behind the frantic course -replicating machine. I tried to follow her on IG but she was so exhausting.

Anonymous wrote:I think the cash crunch would have happened even without the divorce.

They Hatmakers aren’t on TV anymore and she’s not doing tours and her only book coming out is a cook book, it appears.

How much money could the book club and the podcast be bringing in?

Possibly (probably). But I’ve personally know 2 people go thru addiction issues (with alcohol and gambling respectively) and it financially devastated both of them (one single, one with a family). Addiction seems to be a pretty financially ruinous issue, as does, quite frankly, divorce. I bet s$&t gor financially real, real fast because of the divorce and whatever B did that led to the divorce…

big time against MLMs. they are toxic, predatory schemes that take advantage of people looking for the promise of quick money while undermining true friendships and connections between women.

we've all had those moments where someone you sort of know from church or the neighborhood or from your childhood suddenly reaches out to you but not because really want to know how you're doing but instead because they want you to join their network for shampoos and conditioners or vitamin supplements.

Anonymous wrote:There is an irony in a woman creating a me course on how to deconstruct then reconstruct one’s faith when she has devolved into a shilling machine completely disconnected from any genuine accountability.

Fair, but that doesn’t elevate Brandon’s behavior or actions. The comparisons are problematic and misogynistic. Additionally, MLMs—oils, Nuskin, LuLa Roe….the whole bit…those are thriving in evangelical communities. I think they’re all predatory and unethical, but this forum is the 1st time I’m seeing a pushback via a Christian/evangelical lens. Are you against all MLMs, or just when Jen promotes them? I’m genuinely curious.

I’m also an upper middle class white woman who was perfectly content and comfy inside the walls of the evangelical church. The system worked for me and my friends (because it was built by people like us for people like us.)

But I also can recognize the severe cracks within the church and that saying the church was great leaves out a lot of people for whom the church wasn’t great. And the system was built by a really narrow view. Much like I’m an American who america has been great for, doesn’t preclude me from seeing how flawed america is for a lot of people.

Where Jen missteps is not acknowledging her status whilst she rails against the church and the system. Has she ever said “the only reason I have a platform is because the system promoted me?” I don’t think I’ve heard her say it.

She has no platform without the church the way it was designed.

I can see the deconstruction take but she has a huge blind spot that would actually legitimize her take if she was honest about it.

Even the gay affirming stance isn’t that wild. But her inability to acknowledge she had a very compelling reason to change her stance was bad. Instead of “hey this hit close to home so we had to rethink it,” she went all in on the “we’ve done all the research blah blah blah.”

All of these blind spots make her less believable and authentic. Be honest about your journey instead of these bold and long winded pronouncements.

Everything is just all in all the time.

I think the cash crunch would have happened even without the divorce.

They Hatmakers aren’t on TV anymore and she’s not doing tours and her only book coming out is a cook book, it appears.

How much money could the book club and the podcast be bringing in?