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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

DP. They are just reporting what is on X. It shows there is little support for this war in the US. I can not remember a war where there was open hostility to it on the first day. Usually everyone rallies around the flag and the support slowly fades.

This is different because Trump, Republicans and Israel have been attacking anyone who speaks out way before this war started. Rallying to the flags means support Republicans and ICE.

Disagree. They’re trying to spread fear and create confusion.

There already is fear and confusion because no one has articulated why we are in this war, what our objectives are, and when/why/how we can win.

Of course they have. You haven't been listening because you don't like the message.

Degrade their Army and Navy, destroy their missile capabilities, their terrorism organizations and conventional war munitions.

Israel kills their leadership, the IRGC, Qods Force and destabilizes their current government.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Who / what is the organized opposition? What are they doing right now or planning? Can you provide a link that lays gives an analysis of this organized opposition and their plans?

I haven't heard any plans for organized opposition besides Trump telling the Kurds to go and fight.

DP. Below is a link to a short primer on the various opposition groups. Basically, there is no large, organized, or coordinated opposition. Iran is an ethnically diverse country of 92-93 million people (one of the most populous countries on earth). There is no one opposition party or movement. It's not going to be easy for those opposed to the regime to take back their country.

Who are the Iranian opposition and can they take on the regime?
https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/iran-reza-pahlavi-opposition-war-who-are-rtst9tm8b?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqf9EdLIdwqJcBSPpuWHrYSGuLfEqSv7sk5pBWa85Tw3nrIi0sQySywV2XfyWz0%3D&gaa_ts=69a9acd7&gaa_sig=ne0K3VD10245E3ToaaAg75gW37R79KPVNjoD_iZpUUnDldJpjDTEUCF0R3L6ZOZZf-KHZySiHa8iuHpaOHR1mQ%3D%3D

If that's the opposition, I really fear that Iran will turn into a failed stated with civil war. Here is rundown of the opposition in the article:

1 - Reza Pahlavi - Loathed by many. Not gonna happen.

2 - MEK - designated a terrorist group by the US. A cultish organization that joined Saddam against Iranians in the 80s. So that's a no.

3 - Diaspora groups - Useless.

4 - Minorities - this equates to civil war

5 - Protest movements - Not organized or cohesive. The article also mentions one of the protest leaders home being bombed. Looks like someone (most likely Israel) doesn't want any leader emerging from the protest movements.

6 - The Strategic Council of Republicans Inside Iran - Considering this group was just announced on Sunday it sounds like Mossad or the CIA.

Thanks for the synopsis, PP (I'm the pp who posted the link to the article). NONE of the above groups sound promising. Even the may thousands of brave young people who have repeatedly come out to protest can't do it alone--they have been slaughtered in large numbers each time they protest. Government forces would have to get to the point of refusing to fire upon their fellow citizens before mass protests can succeed.

The article points out one key obstacle--the government's internet blackout--which hampers efforts for opposition groups to organize.

"All protest movements rely on disparate groups being able to coordinate with each other. Therefore, they are highly vulnerable to Iran’s increasing use of internet blackouts, including the national blackout under which security forces carried out January’s unprecedented slaughter."

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

DP. They are just reporting what is on X. It shows there is little support for this war in the US. I can not remember a war where there was open hostility to it on the first day. Usually everyone rallies around the flag and the support slowly fades.

This is different because Trump, Republicans and Israel have been attacking anyone who speaks out way before this war started. Rallying to the flags means support Republicans and ICE.

Disagree. They’re trying to spread fear and create confusion.

There already is fear and confusion because no one has articulated why we are in this war, what our objectives are, and when/why/how we can win.

Of course they have. You haven't been listening because you don't like the message.

Degrade their Army and Navy, destroy their missile capabilities, their terrorism organizations and conventional war munitions.

Israel kills their leadership, the IRGC, Qods Force and destabilizes their current government.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

DP. They are just reporting what is on X. It shows there is little support for this war in the US. I can not remember a war where there was open hostility to it on the first day. Usually everyone rallies around the flag and the support slowly fades.

This is different because Trump, Republicans and Israel have been attacking anyone who speaks out way before this war started. Rallying to the flags means support Republicans and ICE.

Disagree. They’re trying to spread fear and create confusion.

There already is fear and confusion because no one has articulated why we are in this war, what our objectives are, and when/why/how we can win.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

DP. They are just reporting what is on X. It shows there is little support for this war in the US. I can not remember a war where there was open hostility to it on the first day. Usually everyone rallies around the flag and the support slowly fades.

This is different because Trump, Republicans and Israel have been attacking anyone who speaks out way before this war started. Rallying to the flags means support Republicans and ICE.

Disagree. They’re trying to spread fear and create confusion.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

DP. They are just reporting what is on X. It shows there is little support for this war in the US. I can not remember a war where there was open hostility to it on the first day. Usually everyone rallies around the flag and the support slowly fades.

This is different because Trump, Republicans and Israel have been attacking anyone who speaks out way before this war started. Rallying to the flags means support Republicans and ICE.

Disagree. They’re trying to spread fear and create confusion.

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+1 Hegseth said the other day that we’ve established air superiority so it’s only a matter of time before Iran begs us to pick the new leader. We had air superiority in Vietnam THE ENTIRE TIME.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Who / what is the organized opposition? What are they doing right now or planning? Can you provide a link that lays gives an analysis of this organized opposition and their plans?

I haven't heard any plans for organized opposition besides Trump telling the Kurds to go and fight.

DP. Below is a link to a short primer on the various opposition groups. Basically, there is no large, organized, or coordinated opposition. Iran is an ethnically diverse country of 92-93 million people (one of the most populous countries on earth). There is no one opposition party or movement. It's not going to be easy for those opposed to the regime to take back their country.

Who are the Iranian opposition and can they take on the regime?
https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/iran-reza-pahlavi-opposition-war-who-are-rtst9tm8b?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqf9EdLIdwqJcBSPpuWHrYSGuLfEqSv7sk5pBWa85Tw3nrIi0sQySywV2XfyWz0%3D&gaa_ts=69a9acd7&gaa_sig=ne0K3VD10245E3ToaaAg75gW37R79KPVNjoD_iZpUUnDldJpjDTEUCF0R3L6ZOZZf-KHZySiHa8iuHpaOHR1mQ%3D%3D

If that's the opposition, I really fear that Iran will turn into a failed stated with civil war. Here is rundown of the opposition in the article:

1 - Reza Pahlavi - Loathed by many. Not gonna happen.

2 - MEK - designated a terrorist group by the US. A cultish organization that joined Saddam against Iranians in the 80s. So that's a no.

3 - Diaspora groups - Useless.

4 - Minorities - this equates to civil war

5 - Protest movements - Not organized or cohesive. The article also mentions one of the protest leaders home being bombed. Looks like someone (most likely Israel) doesn't want any leader emerging from the protest movements.

6 - The Strategic Council of Republicans Inside Iran - Considering this group was just announced on Sunday it sounds like Mossad or the CIA.

Thanks for the synopsis, PP (I'm the pp who posted the link to the article). NONE of the above groups sound promising. Even the may thousands of brave young people who have repeatedly come out to protest can't do it alone--they have been slaughtered in large numbers each time they protest. Government forces would have to get to the point of refusing to fire upon their fellow citizens before mass protests can succeed.

The article points out one key obstacle--the government's internet blackout--which hampers efforts for opposition groups to organize.

"All protest movements rely on disparate groups being able to coordinate with each other. Therefore, they are highly vulnerable to Iran’s increasing use of internet blackouts, including the national blackout under which security forces carried out January’s unprecedented slaughter."

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

DP. They are just reporting what is on X. It shows there is little support for this war in the US. I can not remember a war where there was open hostility to it on the first day. Usually everyone rallies around the flag and the support slowly fades.

This is different because Trump, Republicans and Israel have been attacking anyone who speaks out way before this war started. Rallying to the flags means support Republicans and ICE.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Do you hear yourself? Tunnels? All of the trillions in the best Us bombs and Israel can’t take out tunnels built by Gazans? That says alot. It says they don’t know how to fight.

Keep in mind in Vietnam the Us won every single battle. Every single one. Same in Afghanistan. However,
The regime change did not happen because the people did not want it. The people wanted communism and the people wanted the Taliban. Who are we to impose our ideals and values where they are not needed?

+1 Hegseth said the other day that we’ve established air superiority so it’s only a matter of time before Iran begs us to pick the new leader. We had air superiority in Vietnam THE ENTIRE TIME.

Picking Iran's leader is exactly how we got into this mess to begin with. We overthrew the Iranian government, installed the Shah, which then led to the Iranian Revolution and 47 years of problems. But sure. This time it will be different. Hegseth has it all figured out.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

What do you suppose is the motivation of the posters who are presenting false claims/rumors of successful Iranian attacks? Or the ones denying that Iran struck Saudi Arabia (it was Mossad!)?

There have been dozens of these posts. There’s only one reasonable explanation.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Do you hear yourself? Tunnels? All of the trillions in the best Us bombs and Israel can’t take out tunnels built by Gazans? That says alot. It says they don’t know how to fight.

Keep in mind in Vietnam the Us won every single battle. Every single one. Same in Afghanistan. However,
The regime change did not happen because the people did not want it. The people wanted communism and the people wanted the Taliban. Who are we to impose our ideals and values where they are not needed?

+1 Hegseth said the other day that we’ve established air superiority so it’s only a matter of time before Iran begs us to pick the new leader. We had air superiority in Vietnam THE ENTIRE TIME.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

For once Americans are finally thinking “those six kids could be my kids.” That’s what it means to be part of a united nation.

Our kids can’t be cannon fodder for the sake of the Iranian people. Sorry.

Cannon fodder?

Ridiculous. More died in car accidents and from overdoses yesterday than in this conflict.

Odds of significant numbers of US casualties = 0.

Do you want to call the parents and children of the dead to let them know when they're significant?

I will, if you’ll call the families of the thousands previously killed by Iran and its proxies and explain why you are an apologist for the mullahs.

Oh please. You’re going back 50+ years, you MAGA mouth breather. I’m sure you’re the same person swearing here 1.5 years ago that you were VoTINg fOR TRump BEcaUSe hE wON’t StARt a WaR!

I despise Trump.But I’m not going to allow my loathing of him affect how I view issues.

And no, I’m not going back 50+ years (though one could). Exactly who do you think funded and trained Iraq’s Shia militias and designed and provided IEDs, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of Americans?

Hint: starts with an “I” ends with an “n”.

And why exactly do you think that the Gulf States, Germany, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc., etc. all want this Iranian regime gone?

Hint: it’s not bc they are Trump fans.

As a previous poster said, two things can be true at the same time: Trump’s an idiot and the end of the Iranian regime is good for the region and the world.

You know what would be even better for the world? Getting rid of Trump as US president. Between the chaos of his tariffs, his dismantling of the post-war alliance, his threatening of neighbor countries, his willingness to take bribes from other countries, his shooting of US protestors and foreign boats, is more destabilizing to the world order than the Ayatollah ever was.

PP here. I’m in favor of both. Let’s get rid of Trump and the Iranian regime.

DP. How, exactly, do you propose to get rid or the Iranian regime? That is the burning question right now. Everyone would like to know the answer. Let's hear it--what's the plan?

I misplaced my invite to CentCom, so am afraid I can’t give you a definitive answer.

But if I had to guess, I’d surmise that the calculation goes something like this:

1. Destabilize Iranian military and political leadership, creating as much instability as possible.

2. Empower and arm opposition, hoping that they depose leadership.

3. Destroy Iran’s force projection capability entirely.

Best case: 1&2 work and you get a new regime.

Worst case: regime survives, but is defanged and cowed. Iran’s military capabilities destroyed and created a massive deterrent against future Iranian adventurism in the region.

Actual worst case (in my opinion): failed state or suicidal regime willing to engage in global terrorism to exact revenge.

DP. I think the bolded is both the the worst case scenario and one of the most likely scenarios. It become Libya or Syria. The failed state ends up hosting terrorist groups that present a continued (if different in kind) threat to other countries in the region and lots of Iranians suffer and die in the ensuing violence.

PP.

Agreed. I think this action was a grave mistake, but certainly hope that it succeeds. I can understand those who disagree on the former, but not excuse those who disagree on the latter.

I don't see anyone "hoping" the war is a failure. I see people wanting to end the war before more people die, which isn't the same thing at all.

We see different things. Many, many here are hoping the US fails, either bc they hate Trump or bc they hate Israel (or both).

Nobody is hoping for it, we're just all expecting it. That's what Trump specializes in. Creating messes and throwing people under the bus. That's the inevitable outcome here.

Yep. Seems PP misunderstands people predicting future events and hoping for them. Just because I think I will get fat if I switch to a diet of donuts and soda doesn't mean I hope that will happen.

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Anonymous wrote:You people are absolutely f'ing deranged. I am Iranian. My parents are Iranian. My entire very large extended family is Iranian. Every. Single. One. of the Iranian people I know are absolutely THRILLED with this turn of events. They are literally taking to the streets and celebrating, including here in DC.

I am a lifelong progressive Democrat. Typically, progressives center the narratives of people directly affected and allow them to define their own oppression. But now that they see an opening to criticize Israel (75% of this thread is foaming-at-the mouth, over-the-top, ISIS-level anti-Israel conspiracy propaganda), suddenly what actual Iranians say and feel doesn't matter to them at all. I don't care that Israel was involved here. I simply do not care. If they're the ones that create a catalyst for change in my country that ends up freeing 93 million people from the hellscape they've been living in, great. You people are so BLINDED by your maniacal hatred of Israel and to a lesser extent Trump (who I'm no fan of generally) that you can't perceive the absolute absurd hypocrisy of your position.

It's fine to object to this on the basis that it's not America's affair and they should stay out of it, because tax dollars or whatever BS (so far, only six American service members have (tragically) died, so I really don't think it's concern for our troops). Immoral position to take in the face of this regime, but ok. That's not what most of this thread is doing, though. People are instead moralizing at actual Iranians and pretending to care about the girls school that was bombed (unconfirmed that this was even Israel/the US and not Iran itself) or the future of Iran. Where were you when this regime murder FORTY THOUSAND OF ITS OWN PEOPLE?? When it tortured dissidents in secret prisons, threw acid on women for not covering their hair, literally went into hospitals where protesters were being treated and shot them point blank in the head? You don't give one flying f about Iranian people. Please don't pretend otherwise.

As far as I can tell, so far, all America has done is kill (extremely justifiably) a bunch of monstrous butchers and weakened their grip on power. This may or may not lead to regime change, but I can tell you for damn certain the regime is not going to be able to carry on the same way after this. Absolute WORST case scenario, the regime persists but its nuclear ambitions are done for and it becomes more friendly to US interests.

Two things can be true at once. The Ayatollah was bad (was going to say the world is better off now, but I'm honestly not certain that is true bexause of the way this has been handled) AND this administration is a clown show being led around by the nose by Israel AND international law and human rights are being violated, and for what reason, the administration has not been able to clearly communicate.

Okay so why do my kids need to die for this? We can’t go around doing things so other people can be happy at our expense. We need health care in America. We need to support our next generation. Not get into random wars because some people are happy.

Exactly six American servicemembers have died in this conflict so far. Far less than the number of Americans killed by the Iranian regime and its proxies. Pipe down.

You pipe down. We don't want our kids in this fight.

You people don't get it, do you. The Islamist terrorist rot that this regime spreads will come for you too. Just look at the state of this thread. It's page after page after page of antisemitic, anti-Western propaganda talking points. This regime has murdered Americans on American soil. It has murdered Americans abroad. It will continue to murder Americans and threaten American interests until it is stopped. And if it gets nukes - it cannot be stopped.

So worth it to forgo cancer research for American children for this? Reasonable to take away healthcare subsidies for Americans for this?

If it succeeds? Certainly.

You can’t even get regime change in Gaza . It took 10 years to get regime change in Syria. How are they going to get regime change in Iran? Trump is notoriously impatient. Within a few weeks or less, he’s going to want this wrap this up and move on.

Rather different situation, right?

Iran is a functioning (ish) nation with organized opposition. Leadership can’t just disappear into tunnels (unlike Gaza). If they do, country will cease functioning and opposition will take control.

Who / what is the organized opposition? What are they doing right now or planning? Can you provide a link that lays gives an analysis of this organized opposition and their plans?

I haven't heard any plans for organized opposition besides Trump telling the Kurds to go and fight.

DP. Below is a link to a short primer on the various opposition groups. Basically, there is no large, organized, or coordinated opposition. Iran is an ethnically diverse country of 92-93 million people (one of the most populous countries on earth). There is no one opposition party or movement. It's not going to be easy for those opposed to the regime to take back their country.

Who are the Iranian opposition and can they take on the regime?
https://www.thetimes.com/world/middle-east/article/iran-reza-pahlavi-opposition-war-who-are-rtst9tm8b?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqf9EdLIdwqJcBSPpuWHrYSGuLfEqSv7sk5pBWa85Tw3nrIi0sQySywV2XfyWz0%3D&gaa_ts=69a9acd7&gaa_sig=ne0K3VD10245E3ToaaAg75gW37R79KPVNjoD_iZpUUnDldJpjDTEUCF0R3L6ZOZZf-KHZySiHa8iuHpaOHR1mQ%3D%3D

If that's the opposition, I really fear that Iran will turn into a failed stated with civil war. Here is rundown of the opposition in the article:

1 - Reza Pahlavi - Loathed by many. Not gonna happen.

2 - MEK - designated a terrorist group by the US. A cultish organization that joined Saddam against Iranians in the 80s. So that's a no.

3 - Diaspora groups - Useless.

4 - Minorities - this equates to civil war

5 - Protest movements - Not organized or cohesive. The article also mentions one of the protest leaders home being bombed. Looks like someone (most likely Israel) doesn't want any leader emerging from the protest movements.

6 - The Strategic Council of Republicans Inside Iran - Considering this group was just announced on Sunday it sounds like Mossad or the CIA.