Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:31
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:I am not sure the Ukrainian govnerment is any less corrupt than Russia. What are they fighting for?
Wow. Where do you get your news?
In the past month, Russia has gone from authoritarian to full on totalitarian. They are waging an unprovoked, unjust war to conquer their neighbors. They are engaging in war crimes of attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure, with indiscriminate bombardment, they are using banned thermobarics and cluster bombs against civilian population centers. They are bombarding and attacking civilian evacuation routes. Russia lied to its own people about the reasons for the war. They banned social media and all independent media in Russia and made it illegal to call what's happening a "war" or to speak out against it. They are lying to their soldiers, they are lying to the families of the deceased Russian soldiers. Ukraine on the other hand is doing none of these things. So please don't try and peddle any false equivalence here.
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:22
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Yes of course it was on civilians. Because that is what Russia has done multiple times before - agree to a cease fire and then immediately attack the escaping civilians
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:19
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:I am not sure the Ukrainian govnerment is any less corrupt than Russia. What are they fighting for?
Lol. They're fighting for their freedom, independence, homes, neighbors, lives, way of life and values. Sorry tovarich, y'all done messed up big time.
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:19
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The post title could be flipped to "Russia has no good options in Ukraine". The article gets into it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-good-outcome-putins-unraveling-100129631.html
Russia already effectively lost the war. Ukraine is destroyed and the people are evacuating (so nobody to rule), and resistance/weaponry will keep flooding in to grind down the Russian army. They've destroyed their own economy and place in the world in order to create a wasteland where their soldiers will keep dying.
Exactly. Even if they take Ukraine (and they very well might), then what? Ukraine's wealth is in infrastructure (trashed and flattened) and agriculture (same) as well as its workforce (fleeing or fighting.) A huge amount of people already fled and more will flee. And it's not like Russia has excess population it needs space for so they can be happy about putting that excess population into Ukraine (in fact, Russia itself has arable land that's not used because they don't have enough people to work it.) A significant amount of people who stay are staying to fight them. The war is costing Putin a fortune at the same time he's tanked his economy and a long-term insurgency which will result if he conquers the place will cost more money that he is not swimming in.
He has wrecked his economy and any hope of most of the world willing to trust him in any sense to conquer a bombed out emptying out place the people of which hate him and will never integrate and will keep on trying to kick him out. He has also united the West in a way nobody has been able to do for as long as I can remember. These are not actions of a rational person in any sense.
I found this video helpful in understanding additional factors that may be driving Putin’s seemingly incomprehensible behaviors.
https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:19
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:I am not sure the Ukrainian govnerment is any less corrupt than Russia. What are they fighting for?
Ukraine is a corrupt democracy. Russia is ruled by a dictator.
Which do you pick?
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:16
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The post title could be flipped to "Russia has no good options in Ukraine". The article gets into it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-good-outcome-putins-unraveling-100129631.html
Russia already effectively lost the war. Ukraine is destroyed and the people are evacuating (so nobody to rule), and resistance/weaponry will keep flooding in to grind down the Russian army. They've destroyed their own economy and place in the world in order to create a wasteland where their soldiers will keep dying.
But the problem is the Ukrainians they are killing right now. Thousands now, tens of thousands in a few weeks, PP. The psychological toll will lead to a generation of traumatized Ukrainians, and, more to the point, it may lead quickly to Ukrainian capitulation if the leadership calculates that they need to save what remaining lives they can.
This is why Zelensky is so desperate for a no-fly zone. He knows he can win the war with far fewer casualties if NATO does this. Of course we all understand why NATO doesn't want to provoke Russia into WWIII by direct engagement. NATO is aware there will be a bloodbath on the ground before it's over. It's REALLY HARD to watch, and weapons, ammo and planes can't get to Ukraine quickly enough. Soon, there won't be enough pilots anyway, and key cities are/will be cut off from aid.
And what is Russia going to do with that capitulation? They’ve redefined Pyrrhic Victory. They’ll need a whole new word for what they cost themselves.
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:13
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
I am not sure the Ukrainian govnerment is any less corrupt than Russia. What are they fighting for?
Anonymous
03/05/2022 10:03
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:The post title could be flipped to "Russia has no good options in Ukraine". The article gets into it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-good-outcome-putins-unraveling-100129631.html
Russia already effectively lost the war. Ukraine is destroyed and the people are evacuating (so nobody to rule), and resistance/weaponry will keep flooding in to grind down the Russian army. They've destroyed their own economy and place in the world in order to create a wasteland where their soldiers will keep dying.
But the problem is the Ukrainians they are killing right now. Thousands now, tens of thousands in a few weeks, PP. The psychological toll will lead to a generation of traumatized Ukrainians, and, more to the point, it may lead quickly to Ukrainian capitulation if the leadership calculates that they need to save what remaining lives they can.
This is why Zelensky is so desperate for a no-fly zone. He knows he can win the war with far fewer casualties if NATO does this. Of course we all understand why NATO doesn't want to provoke Russia into WWIII by direct engagement. NATO is aware there will be a bloodbath on the ground before it's over. It's REALLY HARD to watch, and weapons, ammo and planes can't get to Ukraine quickly enough. Soon, there won't be enough pilots anyway, and key cities are/will be cut off from aid.
Anonymous
03/05/2022 09:49
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Russian officials are saying that Ukraine is using civilians as human shields and that's why Russia started firing again. They also still are claiming that they're not hitting civilian infrastructure.
Anonymous
03/05/2022 09:28
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The post title could be flipped to "Russia has no good options in Ukraine". The article gets into it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-good-outcome-putins-unraveling-100129631.html
Russia already effectively lost the war. Ukraine is destroyed and the people are evacuating (so nobody to rule), and resistance/weaponry will keep flooding in to grind down the Russian army. They've destroyed their own economy and place in the world in order to create a wasteland where their soldiers will keep dying.
Exactly. Even if they take Ukraine (and they very well might), then what? Ukraine's wealth is in infrastructure (trashed and flattened) and agriculture (same) as well as its workforce (fleeing or fighting.) A huge amount of people already fled and more will flee. And it's not like Russia has excess population it needs space for so they can be happy about putting that excess population into Ukraine (in fact, Russia itself has arable land that's not used because they don't have enough people to work it.) A significant amount of people who stay are staying to fight them. The war is costing Putin a fortune at the same time he's tanked his economy and a long-term insurgency which will result if he conquers the place will cost more money that he is not swimming in.
He has wrecked his economy and any hope of most of the world willing to trust him in any sense to conquer a bombed out emptying out place the people of which hate him and will never integrate and will keep on trying to kick him out. He has also united the West in a way nobody has been able to do for as long as I can remember. These are not actions of a rational person in any sense.
In one week, they've effectively become a bigger North Korea. Their economy is cut off from the world, their citizens will begin suffering as result and crackdowns (already occurring) will be the norm, their conventional army has been exposed as a joke, and people only really fear their nuclear capability. This will go down in history as one of the biggest (if not biggest by a wide margin) mistakes by a country leader. In one week, he destroyed Russia for at least a generation.
Anonymous
03/05/2022 09:27
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:Now hearing Bolton saying Putin's calculus was on a second Trump term, where Trump withdraws the US from NATO making it easier for him to capture Ukraine without worrying about the US.
As much as I dislike Bolton, that actually makes sense - Trump losing re-election changed Putin's scheme and messed up his planning and timeline.
Putin was probably also hoping to influence the elections in Germany and France but now he has Scholz and Macron taking harder lines than he expected.
So Putin went forward with the invasion even though Trump did not win a second term?
Anonymous
03/05/2022 09:26
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous
03/05/2022 09:26
Subject: US has no good options in Ukraine
Now hearing Bolton saying Putin's calculus was on a second Trump term, where Trump withdraws the US from NATO making it easier for him to capture Ukraine without worrying about the US.
As much as I dislike Bolton, that actually makes sense - Trump losing re-election changed Putin's scheme and messed up his planning and timeline.
Putin was probably also hoping to influence the elections in Germany and France but now he has Scholz and Macron taking harder lines than he expected.
As much as I dislike Bolton, that actually makes sense - Trump losing re-election changed Putin's scheme and messed up his planning and timeline.
Putin was probably also hoping to influence the elections in Germany and France but now he has Scholz and Macron taking harder lines than he expected.
Anonymous
Anonymous
03/05/2022 09:13
Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine
Anonymous wrote:The post title could be flipped to "Russia has no good options in Ukraine". The article gets into it.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-good-outcome-putins-unraveling-100129631.html
Russia already effectively lost the war. Ukraine is destroyed and the people are evacuating (so nobody to rule), and resistance/weaponry will keep flooding in to grind down the Russian army. They've destroyed their own economy and place in the world in order to create a wasteland where their soldiers will keep dying.
Exactly. Even if they take Ukraine (and they very well might), then what? Ukraine's wealth is in infrastructure (trashed and flattened) and agriculture (same) as well as its workforce (fleeing or fighting.) A huge amount of people already fled and more will flee. And it's not like Russia has excess population it needs space for so they can be happy about putting that excess population into Ukraine (in fact, Russia itself has arable land that's not used because they don't have enough people to work it.) A significant amount of people who stay are staying to fight them. The war is costing Putin a fortune at the same time he's tanked his economy and a long-term insurgency which will result if he conquers the place will cost more money that he is not swimming in.
He has wrecked his economy and any hope of most of the world willing to trust him in any sense to conquer a bombed out emptying out place the people of which hate him and will never integrate and will keep on trying to kick him out. He has also united the West in a way nobody has been able to do for as long as I can remember. These are not actions of a rational person in any sense.