Anonymous
06/30/2021 13:44
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:I leave for work at 6am and get home around 5:30pm, and my husband is in big law so long hours every day. We are expecting our 4th kid. Our kids are in school/preschool all day then we have a sitter who works from 4-8pm. We also have a housekeeper who comes twice a week. I’m perfectly happy with the set up. My husband makes a lot of money so that neither of us has to do housework beyond light picking up, and I have my dream career plus the big(ish) family I wanted. I wouldn’t want to give up the money or personal fulfillment for the additional 1-2 hours per day doing housework and hounding the kids about their worksheets or picking up their socks, but that’s just me. Maybe things will change when they are in middle school.
This can’t possibly be real. You spend… an hour? At the most? Per day with your kids during the week, and you’re pregnant with your fourth child? Sweet Jesus.
Anonymous
06/30/2021 13:37
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
OP, I am in a very similar situation (DH in Biglaw and is up for partner this year; me at a prestigious but not biglaw firm). Kids are 1 and 4. I had my second during the pandemic so I am not sure whether our set up will work when we are both commuting daily again, but here is what we do:
- My billable hour goal is 1600/yr. I probably do an additional 200 non-billables a year. Try to find a firm that will let you do this. DH bills an average of 2350 a year, but his specialty is not big on facetime or travel.
- Nanny works just for us currently, 8-6, while 4 yo does camp part time. This will likely switch to a nanny share situation next year when the older one is in school.
- I start working around 830 daily, and stop around 530 to prep dinner when I can. On very busy days or days when i have calls extending to 6, I either 1) find a different time in the day to prep dinner and then heat up in the microwave, or 2) do something really really easy - e.g., yogurt + fruit + veggie, frozen meatballs + pre-made rice/quinoa + veggie, etc.
- To the best of his ability, DH tries to be offline between 6-7 so we can eat dinner as a family and I can put the baby to bed around 645
- DH and I switch off putting the older one to bed from 7-8; we either work or exercise during that hour
- We both do some work 8-9. We try to spend time together 9-10, often while cleaning up from dinner. DH resumes working at 10 and often works late into the night; I either work more 10-11 or decompress/do personal tasks/prep the kids' stuff for the next day.
- My billable hour goal is 1600/yr. I probably do an additional 200 non-billables a year. Try to find a firm that will let you do this. DH bills an average of 2350 a year, but his specialty is not big on facetime or travel.
- Nanny works just for us currently, 8-6, while 4 yo does camp part time. This will likely switch to a nanny share situation next year when the older one is in school.
- I start working around 830 daily, and stop around 530 to prep dinner when I can. On very busy days or days when i have calls extending to 6, I either 1) find a different time in the day to prep dinner and then heat up in the microwave, or 2) do something really really easy - e.g., yogurt + fruit + veggie, frozen meatballs + pre-made rice/quinoa + veggie, etc.
- To the best of his ability, DH tries to be offline between 6-7 so we can eat dinner as a family and I can put the baby to bed around 645
- DH and I switch off putting the older one to bed from 7-8; we either work or exercise during that hour
- We both do some work 8-9. We try to spend time together 9-10, often while cleaning up from dinner. DH resumes working at 10 and often works late into the night; I either work more 10-11 or decompress/do personal tasks/prep the kids' stuff for the next day.
Anonymous
06/30/2021 13:11
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We used to be this and I cut back. I ended up staying home and had a third child. DH earns a seven figure income and I’m a SAHM. We live in a nice house in mclean and our kids attend public school.
I was just missing my career today. Reading this post reminds me of how hard it was when I was working. I used to cry because I missed my baby’s bedtime most nights. Getting an hour with your baby in the morning just wasn’t enough. I actually did cut back and it still was hard. I remember having two drop offs and pick ups when my older child started elementary. I was always scrambling.
I used to have a full time nanny plus preschool. Then I had a housekeeper and cook. It was really hard to get a PT afternoon sitter/driver. I remember writing the description for care.com and I decided I wanted to be the one to take my kids to sports and activities, help kids with homework and feed them dinner. We would never have had our third child if I was still working.
I don’t think your dual long hours are sustainable. We do know families who have multiple nannies or a FT nanny even when kids are in elementary.
That's exactly what this boils down to, PP. I'm happy for you that you are in a better place. Working moms are in a rough spot. We've been fed the line that we must get out into the working world to prove our worth (and pay homage to the feminist leaders before us) but we also have been sold the line that we can have it all. The fact of the matter is that we absolutely cannot. OP, you cannot have it all so you must choose. You either outsource your household duties (and much of that mothering) or you give up your current career path. One of those will have to give. I'm not here to tell you which is more valuable, as that's for you to decide. But if you wish to continue with your hours and DH's schedule, you'll have to hire more help. And you'll need to balance your budget to do that. Figure out what line items are really worth it (good bye cars) and ante up for the extra domestic help.
I know we all read the Atlantic article a few years back about not having it all. I'm 40+, 3 kids and found it out the hard way in law. I now work for myself and am WAHM full time. It works for me but I won't have the upward income mobility as OP. I am raising my own kids, doing all the cooking/cleaning/sports events because that was the choice that I made. OP, figure out your choice and roll with it. Because we don't get it all in this life. And no, your DH doesn't either despite what PPs here may say.
No, this isn't a working mom issue. There are plenty of us that balance a two income family. The problem is that OP's husband is completely unavailable during daylight hours. OP is basically a single parent (except with a with $500K income from her MIA husband) AND she has a boarderline "big" job herself.
When one partner (either mom or dad) has a "big" job it's really tricky if the other one works more than 40 hours total. In my experience the spouse of a big job worker 1)often stays home for XX number of years OR 2)works a 40 hour week job with pretty significant flexibility---i.e. it may be 40 hour in theory but often ends up being more like 30.
Anonymous
06/30/2021 04:35
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
outsource the kids 24/7, problem solved
Anonymous
06/21/2021 22:01
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. We both work in law. DH is working on many more complicated deals now which is why the hours are so bad.
I am at a different firm that is also pretty demanding. Neither of us really has the ability to but back our hours and while I could take somewhat of a step back with less pay,
I can’t find any firms that actually have that option. No one wants a lawyer who is only willing to work 40 hours per week. I have interviewed for in house jobs too in the past but nothing has been the right fit.
I really don’t want to outsource more related to my kids because I want to be with them, which is my top priority in the mornings and after work until they go to bed.
We need a good income because we have one in private elementary, eventually two, a nice house, nice cars, etc. we could certainly be a bit more frugal with cars and things, but not education.
Here's a crazy suggestion - look at BigLaw. If you love your job (and it seems like you do), the lateral market it nuts right now. You could get a big signing bonus (especially if you bring in clients), come in at a senior associate or counsel position, except PART TIME. My BigLaw shop is incredibly open handed with part time allowances - as long as they like your work you can do whatever percentage you want. Make a move to BigLaw at 50%, only work mornings, see your kids all the time, and make essentially the same salary you're making now if you hit your 50% billable targets.
Also, stop giving af about "nice cars" on top of your private schools and mansion. GMAB.
Anonymous
06/21/2021 21:18
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
I leave for work at 6am and get home around 5:30pm, and my husband is in big law so long hours every day. We are expecting our 4th kid. Our kids are in school/preschool all day then we have a sitter who works from 4-8pm. We also have a housekeeper who comes twice a week. I’m perfectly happy with the set up. My husband makes a lot of money so that neither of us has to do housework beyond light picking up, and I have my dream career plus the big(ish) family I wanted. I wouldn’t want to give up the money or personal fulfillment for the additional 1-2 hours per day doing housework and hounding the kids about their worksheets or picking up their socks, but that’s just me. Maybe things will change when they are in middle school.
Anonymous
06/20/2021 15:06
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:This is OP again. I want to clear up the notion that I only spend 30 mins per day with my kids which is not at all true. They are up by 7am latest and we spend an hour an a half together until I drop the older one at school at 8:30 and our nanny arrives. I stop working at 5:30pm so I think have another 2 hours with my youngest who goes to bed at 7:30pm, and my oldest who goes to bed at 8 gets 2.5 hours. Where I struggle is that I then need to handle everything else too - cooking, clean up, laundry, schedules, projects, etc. And I choose to stop working at 5:30 and then go back online later most nights so I can spend the time with my kids.
I am genuinely curious - are there moms who work full time and get to spend more time with their kids than this? Even if you work 9-5 with commuting it’s probably about the same I would imagine.
We also don’t work for what would be considered biglaw firms (although my firm is bigger than DH’s). DH is already a partner and makes around $500K per year all in. He has even more earning potential with his recent promotion but isn’t there yet. I make around $250K and made it clear I don’t want to be on partner track because those attorneys work much more than I do.
We also don’t live an overly extravagant lifestyle at all. DH went to private school and is not open to public regardless of how good it is. That’s the only think that would make a reasonable different in our expenditures. So when you add that up, plus FT nanny, summer camp and classes, our families both lives across the country so 2X per year flights, one vacation per year, etc... it really doesn’t go as far as it should. We also save quite a bit as we want to make sure college and possible grad school are covered for our kids.
All of which can be done in one of your salaries. Like you said you are am trying to fit in being a mom with all the other stuff which means your actually doing the other stuff. When you do take your kids to activities? Swim lessons, dance, cheer, soccer, baseball, etc? When you find time for your own health or friendships. You don't. You're staring down the barrel of depression and having nannies raise your kids and asking for help but dismissing all the advice. If you ask for help then take the advice otherwise why are you asking?
Anonymous
06/20/2021 14:55
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. We both work in law. DH is working on many more complicated deals now which is why the hours are so bad.
I am at a different firm that is also pretty demanding. Neither of us really has the ability to but back our hours and while I could take somewhat of a step back with less pay,
I can’t find any firms that actually have that option. No one wants a lawyer who is only willing to work 40 hours per week. I have interviewed for in house jobs too in the past but nothing has been the right fit.
I really don’t want to outsource more related to my kids because I want to be with them, which is my top priority in the mornings and after work until they go to bed.
We need a good income because we have one in private elementary, eventually two, a nice house, nice cars, etc. we could certainly be a bit more frugal with cars and things, but not education.
Someday you'll look back and wish you had more time with your kids and the house and the cars didn't really matter.
Anonymous
06/20/2021 13:12
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:What the heck do you both do that is important enough to warrant such long hours? Good lord, that’s a messed up way to live. How did you manage to even conceive children?
HAVING IT ALL is a myth!!!!! Since you've decided to have children, at least one of you should be there for them! You and your DH are missing out on raising your kids. I bet they'd prefer time with you to all the toys and sh*t you can buy.
Just because you can work hard and make lots of money (I assume) doesn't mean that you should!
... I get to judge - you posted and this is all anonymous.
Anonymous
06/17/2021 11:18
Subject: Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
I work from 8am to 6pm every day and make $96,000 (director of a childcare center). commute 1 hour each way, so I'm gone from house from 7am to 7pm. And, again, I MAKE WAY LESS THAN YOU DO. (oh, and I have a Master's degree so am very well educated lest you all think otherwise)
Do laundry on the weekends, involve your kids in sorting, folding, etc - that's how we all learned to do laundry
grocery delivery service - and nanny puts the stuff away when it arrives mid-day
have nanny do the irritating chores - drycleaning, post office, going to hardware store to buy the 2 things, etc. picking up forms or dropping off at pediatrician's office, and all the other stuff - create petty cash concept for nanny to buy stamps, etc.
3x/week prep a few meals for slow cooker and have nanny take out of fridge and turn that on at 2:30pm on high so dinner is ready at 6pm. (slow cookers are only good if someone is home to put them on - they really are useless for those of us out of the house 12 hours/day)
OR HIRE someone additional to work 9-3pm doing grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning house 1x per week when nanny and child are outside, changing bed linens, doing the irritating chores, post office runs, etc. And that person puts the prepped crock pot food and starts it - or freaking preps it themselves and puts crock pot on 3x/week for dinner, too. Whatever, you need an "Alice" like from Brady Bunch - but perhaps not full time? (although I bet if you hired someone full time you'd have a better chance of getting someone better, but it seems a big much to have a nanny and a housekeeper in the house all the time..... )
Do laundry on the weekends, involve your kids in sorting, folding, etc - that's how we all learned to do laundry
grocery delivery service - and nanny puts the stuff away when it arrives mid-day
have nanny do the irritating chores - drycleaning, post office, going to hardware store to buy the 2 things, etc. picking up forms or dropping off at pediatrician's office, and all the other stuff - create petty cash concept for nanny to buy stamps, etc.
3x/week prep a few meals for slow cooker and have nanny take out of fridge and turn that on at 2:30pm on high so dinner is ready at 6pm. (slow cookers are only good if someone is home to put them on - they really are useless for those of us out of the house 12 hours/day)
OR HIRE someone additional to work 9-3pm doing grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning house 1x per week when nanny and child are outside, changing bed linens, doing the irritating chores, post office runs, etc. And that person puts the prepped crock pot food and starts it - or freaking preps it themselves and puts crock pot on 3x/week for dinner, too. Whatever, you need an "Alice" like from Brady Bunch - but perhaps not full time? (although I bet if you hired someone full time you'd have a better chance of getting someone better, but it seems a big much to have a nanny and a housekeeper in the house all the time..... )
Anonymous
06/16/2021 16:17
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
I feel sorry for the kids.
Anonymous
06/09/2021 10:53
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, some of you outsources must not be saving very much money! We net about 55k a month after taxes and retirement, etc. which is about where I assume the OP shakes out. I wouldn't dream of thinking we are too rich to clean up after ourselves! I can't believe people are telling her to hire a housekeeper so she doesn't have to do her own dishes or clean up the crumbs after dinner. That's some Kardashian level shit imo.
And if I was going to splurge, I'd much rather splash out on an amazing once-in-a-lifetime bucket list level trip for the whole family for the kind of money ya'll are spending on housekeepers. Something you can EASILY do on your own. Takes 15/20 minutes to wipe down the counters, load the dishwasher, pack food away, and sweep the floor.
If you make 1-2M a year or more? Than yeah sure outsource away. But 750k with 2 kids in private and college to pay for someday is not rich enough for that type of lifestyle.
Another completely delusional poster. You net 55k A MONTH? What do you do for that 55k per month? Seriously... many people net that per year here.
DH nets 35k per month and bonuses 500k-1m per year.
We spend about $1500 per month on housekeeping and I’m a SAHM. We have someone deep clean every other week and another person who helps cook, do laundry, tidy up part time.
We do not live a lavish lifestyle but we do live in a large house. I don’t know who thinks a housekeeper makes 150k. People on this site are not in touch with reality.
You have to pay taxes on bonuses.
My point was people above made it seem like getting housekeeping help was not attainable for 12-30k and it is.
I don’t work and still need housekeeping help. Op can and should get similar paid help plus a few more hours from the nanny.
I used to have a full time nanny, house cleaners, tutor and a mother’s helper when I was still working. It was too much outsourcing for me.
Absolutely -- OP CAN afford more domestic help (no need to spend $150k
When it comes to non-kid related domestic tasks, she should spend about 15 minutes each evening cleaning up from dinner, throw dishes into dishwasher, quick wipe down of eating/cooking area, and quick simple tidying up/de-cluttering around house. That's it -- she shouldn't be doing anything else by way of domestic tasks if she values her physical and mental health.
She can and should outsource (through some combo of nanny, housekeeper, meal service, cleaning lady, whatever -- not saying to get all, just find coverage) for all deep cleaning, all laundry, grocery shopping, and also "dinner" during the week (so someone else meal plans, shops for, and prepares weeknight dinners).
I mean, it's not like OP is lazy -- she's working into the night at a demanding job, spending time with her kids, etc.
I agree.
I hope OP is reading this!
She probably isn't because only 1 out of 19 pages contained any helpful or kind information.
Anonymous
06/08/2021 21:55
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, some of you outsources must not be saving very much money! We net about 55k a month after taxes and retirement, etc. which is about where I assume the OP shakes out. I wouldn't dream of thinking we are too rich to clean up after ourselves! I can't believe people are telling her to hire a housekeeper so she doesn't have to do her own dishes or clean up the crumbs after dinner. That's some Kardashian level shit imo.
And if I was going to splurge, I'd much rather splash out on an amazing once-in-a-lifetime bucket list level trip for the whole family for the kind of money ya'll are spending on housekeepers. Something you can EASILY do on your own. Takes 15/20 minutes to wipe down the counters, load the dishwasher, pack food away, and sweep the floor.
If you make 1-2M a year or more? Than yeah sure outsource away. But 750k with 2 kids in private and college to pay for someday is not rich enough for that type of lifestyle.
Another completely delusional poster. You net 55k A MONTH? What do you do for that 55k per month? Seriously... many people net that per year here.
DH nets 35k per month and bonuses 500k-1m per year.
We spend about $1500 per month on housekeeping and I’m a SAHM. We have someone deep clean every other week and another person who helps cook, do laundry, tidy up part time.
We do not live a lavish lifestyle but we do live in a large house. I don’t know who thinks a housekeeper makes 150k. People on this site are not in touch with reality.
You have to pay taxes on bonuses.
My point was people above made it seem like getting housekeeping help was not attainable for 12-30k and it is.
I don’t work and still need housekeeping help. Op can and should get similar paid help plus a few more hours from the nanny.
I used to have a full time nanny, house cleaners, tutor and a mother’s helper when I was still working. It was too much outsourcing for me.
Absolutely -- OP CAN afford more domestic help (no need to spend $150k
When it comes to non-kid related domestic tasks, she should spend about 15 minutes each evening cleaning up from dinner, throw dishes into dishwasher, quick wipe down of eating/cooking area, and quick simple tidying up/de-cluttering around house. That's it -- she shouldn't be doing anything else by way of domestic tasks if she values her physical and mental health.
She can and should outsource (through some combo of nanny, housekeeper, meal service, cleaning lady, whatever -- not saying to get all, just find coverage) for all deep cleaning, all laundry, grocery shopping, and also "dinner" during the week (so someone else meal plans, shops for, and prepares weeknight dinners).
I mean, it's not like OP is lazy -- she's working into the night at a demanding job, spending time with her kids, etc.
I agree.
I hope OP is reading this!
Anonymous
06/08/2021 21:48
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, some of you outsources must not be saving very much money! We net about 55k a month after taxes and retirement, etc. which is about where I assume the OP shakes out. I wouldn't dream of thinking we are too rich to clean up after ourselves! I can't believe people are telling her to hire a housekeeper so she doesn't have to do her own dishes or clean up the crumbs after dinner. That's some Kardashian level shit imo.
And if I was going to splurge, I'd much rather splash out on an amazing once-in-a-lifetime bucket list level trip for the whole family for the kind of money ya'll are spending on housekeepers. Something you can EASILY do on your own. Takes 15/20 minutes to wipe down the counters, load the dishwasher, pack food away, and sweep the floor.
If you make 1-2M a year or more? Than yeah sure outsource away. But 750k with 2 kids in private and college to pay for someday is not rich enough for that type of lifestyle.
This. There's a reason people making this much money are making this much money...it's because they're not idiots who would pay 150k+ a year for someone to clean up their dinner dishes.
No one is going to pay you a doctor’s salary to clean their dinner dishes. It’s a part time job, and not a highly paid one. At most, you might get $30k/yr, but it’s probably going to be half that.
If you know someone who will do things for $15k/yr give me their email address. Seriously.
Care.com
Put in an ad that you are looking for a housekeeper to do daily light cleaning, laundry, groceries/errands, and food prep 3-4 hours/day 4 days/week. Exact hours are flexible. Paid holidays and 2 weeks paid vacation. Housekeeping experience required. Must be comfortable cooking.
(The fifth day you order takeout or cook on your own).
Then negotiate a rate between $20-25/hr. This is ~$12k/yr in the low end and ~$20k/yr on the high end.
You will get many candidates (at least in normal times...things are kind of wonky right now).
But the hours aren’t flexible, this is a very undesirable dinner/post-dinner time slot. And you’ve already moved the ball from daily help to only half the week!
I posted previously that we had a PT housekeeper/cook. We still do our own dinner dishes.
+1. I had some additional help with domestic chores. I wasn’t Lady Mary Crawley.
Anonymous
06/08/2021 20:14
Subject: Re:Advice Needed: parents who both work long hours
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow, some of you outsources must not be saving very much money! We net about 55k a month after taxes and retirement, etc. which is about where I assume the OP shakes out. I wouldn't dream of thinking we are too rich to clean up after ourselves! I can't believe people are telling her to hire a housekeeper so she doesn't have to do her own dishes or clean up the crumbs after dinner. That's some Kardashian level shit imo.
And if I was going to splurge, I'd much rather splash out on an amazing once-in-a-lifetime bucket list level trip for the whole family for the kind of money ya'll are spending on housekeepers. Something you can EASILY do on your own. Takes 15/20 minutes to wipe down the counters, load the dishwasher, pack food away, and sweep the floor.
If you make 1-2M a year or more? Than yeah sure outsource away. But 750k with 2 kids in private and college to pay for someday is not rich enough for that type of lifestyle.
This. There's a reason people making this much money are making this much money...it's because they're not idiots who would pay 150k+ a year for someone to clean up their dinner dishes.
No one is going to pay you a doctor’s salary to clean their dinner dishes. It’s a part time job, and not a highly paid one. At most, you might get $30k/yr, but it’s probably going to be half that.
If you know someone who will do things for $15k/yr give me their email address. Seriously.
Care.com
Put in an ad that you are looking for a housekeeper to do daily light cleaning, laundry, groceries/errands, and food prep 3-4 hours/day 4 days/week. Exact hours are flexible. Paid holidays and 2 weeks paid vacation. Housekeeping experience required. Must be comfortable cooking.
(The fifth day you order takeout or cook on your own).
Then negotiate a rate between $20-25/hr. This is ~$12k/yr in the low end and ~$20k/yr on the high end.
You will get many candidates (at least in normal times...things are kind of wonky right now).
But the hours aren’t flexible, this is a very undesirable dinner/post-dinner time slot. And you’ve already moved the ball from daily help to only half the week!
I posted previously that we had a PT housekeeper/cook. We still do our own dinner dishes.