Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise

We are not saying it is simple, we are saying the federal government should solve this problem for anyone has difficulty obtaining an official photo ID and desires to have one.
A new national ID does not need to be created, the US government can issue US passports. In turn, these passports can be used directly or as proof of ID to obtain other types of local state REAL ID (eg, the new drivers license). Soon people won't be able to travel by plane without a REAL ID. So, let's empower people lacking ID by having the federal government solve the problem. And it has to be the federal government since state governments may oppose the initiative.

You don't need a realID if you have a passport. But sounds great. There'd also need to be legislation to prevenofficial level shenanigans. Wouldn't need anything else if you have a passport,

Passports are more than 100 dollars, and MUCH harder to get than even the real ID.

In the scenario presented they were free and the govt takes on the administrative burden

Anonymous wrote:

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise

We are not saying it is simple, we are saying the federal government should solve this problem for anyone has difficulty obtaining an official photo ID and desires to have one.
A new national ID does not need to be created, the US government can issue US passports. In turn, these passports can be used directly or as proof of ID to obtain other types of local state REAL ID (eg, the new drivers license). Soon people won't be able to travel by plane without a REAL ID. So, let's empower people lacking ID by having the federal government solve the problem. And it has to be the federal government since state governments may oppose the initiative.

The same people saying the Federal Government should solve this problem are the same people fighting against Federal overreach. Look, if the right wants to have a national ID and nationalID card requirements for voting, then they are going to have to step back on the whole federal overreach thing.

So..which will it be. Do we really want a national ID database?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise

We are not saying it is simple, we are saying the federal government should solve this problem for anyone has difficulty obtaining an official photo ID and desires to have one.
A new national ID does not need to be created, the US government can issue US passports. In turn, these passports can be used directly or as proof of ID to obtain other types of local state REAL ID (eg, the new drivers license). Soon people won't be able to travel by plane without a REAL ID. So, let's empower people lacking ID by having the federal government solve the problem. And it has to be the federal government since state governments may oppose the initiative.

You don't need a realID if you have a passport. But sounds great. There'd also need to be legislation to prevenofficial level shenanigans. Wouldn't need anything else if you have a passport,

Passports are more than 100 dollars, and MUCH harder to get than even the real ID.

Anonymous wrote:

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise

We are not saying it is simple, we are saying the federal government should solve this problem for anyone has difficulty obtaining an official photo ID and desires to have one.
A new national ID does not need to be created, the US government can issue US passports. In turn, these passports can be used directly or as proof of ID to obtain other types of local state REAL ID (eg, the new drivers license). Soon people won't be able to travel by plane without a REAL ID. So, let's empower people lacking ID by having the federal government solve the problem. And it has to be the federal government since state governments may oppose the initiative.

You don't need a realID if you have a passport. But sounds great. There'd also need to be legislation to prevenofficial level shenanigans. Wouldn't need anything else if you have a passport,

Anonymous wrote:

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise

We are not saying it is simple, we are saying the federal government should solve this problem for anyone has difficulty obtaining an official photo ID and desires to have one.
A new national ID does not need to be created, the US government can issue US passports. In turn, these passports can be used directly or as proof of ID to obtain other types of local state REAL ID (eg, the new drivers license). Soon people won't be able to travel by plane without a REAL ID. So, let's empower people lacking ID by having the federal government solve the problem. And it has to be the federal government since state governments may oppose the initiative.

But...the federal government doesn’t actually want to do that. Nor do local or state governments. Thus, the discussion about disenfranchised voters. If you don’t want to prevent people from voting, you should probably fix the ID issue first.

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise

We are not saying it is simple, we are saying the federal government should solve this problem for anyone has difficulty obtaining an official photo ID and desires to have one.
A new national ID does not need to be created, the US government can issue US passports. In turn, these passports can be used directly or as proof of ID to obtain other types of local state REAL ID (eg, the new drivers license). Soon people won't be able to travel by plane without a REAL ID. So, let's empower people lacking ID by having the federal government solve the problem. And it has to be the federal government since state governments may oppose the initiative.

Notice that they tend to have national IDs provided by the Country and not the local jurisdictions.

So sure, let's do it that way. There's a bill on the table right now that would be a great vehicle through which to create one.

Here’s what’s ironic... at least the first five examples on that page don’t strictly require photo is except for Brazil which is moving to biometric ID.

So your original premise that all other countries require ID is incorrect

YOU are incorrect and are too lazy to even read the details in the list

Argentina

In Argentina voting is compulsory for all citizens between 18 and 70 years old, non-compulsory for those older than 70 and between 16 and 18, and citizens with domiciles in foreign countries. To vote they must present a valid Documento Nacional de Identidad at the corresponding voting center.

My clarification: the Documento Nacional de Identidad is a national photo ID

Most countries in Latin America have similar policies.




Australia

In Australia voting is compulsory[1] for all adult citizens. Failure to cast a ballot may result in a small fine, currently AU$20. [2]

No form of ID is required to cast a ballot at an election; instead, voters are asked three questions before being issued a ballot, so that they can be checked off the electoral roll: (1) what is your full name; (2) where do you live; and (3) have you voted before in this election?[3] On election day, voters can vote at any polling place in their state of residence, and at selected polling places in other states.

However; In order to be registered, a form must be filled out and an ID must be proven.[



Brazil

In Brazil voting is compulsory to all citizens between 18 and 70 years old.[6] To vote, all citizens must:

Be registered to vote, getting a voter ID card, called "Título Eleitoral" aka "Títilo de Eleitor" in Brazil. Presenting the voter ID card when voting is optional
Present an official identity document with photo, usually the regular ID card (cédula de identidade)

Since 2006 the Brazilian Electoral Justice is re-registering voters with biometric identification.
Observation: that is even more fraudproof than any type of ID



Canada
Federal elections

In Canada, the Federal government mails an Elections Canada registration confirmation card, which the voter takes to the polling station. The card tells the individual where and when to vote. Voters must prove their identity and address with one of three options:[10]

Show one original government-issued piece of identification with photo, name and address, like a driver's license or a health card.
Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have an address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.
Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of whom must make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

Provincial elections

Voter identification regulations vary from provinces to provinces. In Ontario, "ID is required to vote or to add or update your voter information on the voters list" and a substantial number of acceptable IDs, which do not need to be photo IDs, are accepted.[11]

In Quebec, the voter must show one of five government-issued photo IDs, and if lacking any of these, will be directed to the identity verification panel.


France

In France, voters must prove their identity to vote: at the registration (proof of address — A phone, water or electricity invoice... — and an identity document that proves your nationality — National Identity Card or Passport — and on the day of the vote, in towns larger than 1000 inhabitants, an identity document is required.

Nor has there been evidence that other countries have similar requirements

I am sorry you have not had much travel abroad, or contact with people from other countries, or the curiosity to google before typing, but here some examples.
But, to summarize, the general rule abroad is that you need official photo ID to vote.
The US is an exception among very few countries.



1 Examples

1.1 Argentina
1.2 Australia
1.3 Brazil
1.4 Canada
1.4.1 Federal elections
1.4.2 Provincial elections
1.5 France
1.6 Finland
1.7 Germany
1.8 Greece
1.9 Hungary
1.10 Iceland
1.11 India
1.12 Israel
1.13 Italy
1.14 Mexico
1.15 Netherlands
1.16 Norway
1.17 Sweden
1.18 Switzerland
1.19 United Kingdom


Examples
Argentina

In Argentina voting is compulsory for all citizens between 18 and 70 years old, non-compulsory for those older than 70 and between 16 and 18, and citizens with domiciles in foreign countries. To vote they must present a valid Documento Nacional de Identidad at the corresponding voting center.

Most countries in Latin America have similar policies.
Australia

In Australia voting is compulsory[1] for all adult citizens. Failure to cast a ballot may result in a small fine, currently AU$20. [2]

No form of ID is required to cast a ballot at an election; instead, voters are asked three questions before being issued a ballot, so that they can be checked off the electoral roll: (1) what is your full name; (2) where do you live; and (3) have you voted before in this election?[3] On election day, voters can vote at any polling place in their state of residence, and at selected polling places in other states.[4] However; In order to be registered, a form must be filled out and an ID must be proven.[5]
Brazil

In Brazil voting is compulsory to all citizens between 18 and 70 years old.[6] To vote, all citizens must:

Be registered to vote, getting a voter ID card, called "Título Eleitoral" aka "Títilo de Eleitor" in Brazil. Presenting the voter ID card when voting is optional
Report in person to the voting section[7]
Present an official identity document with photo, usually the regular ID card (cédula de identidade)

Since 2006 the Brazilian Electoral Justice is re-registering voters with biometric identification. In the 2014 elections more than 22 million voters out of 141 million[8] will be identified by fingerprints.[9]
Canada
Federal elections

In Canada, the Federal government mails an Elections Canada registration confirmation card, which the voter takes to the polling station. The card tells the individual where and when to vote. Voters must prove their identity and address with one of three options:[10]

Show one original government-issued piece of identification with photo, name and address, like a driver's license or a health card.
Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have an address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.
Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of whom must make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

Provincial elections

Voter identification regulations vary from provinces to provinces. In Ontario, "ID is required to vote or to add or update your voter information on the voters list" and a substantial number of acceptable IDs, which do not need to be photo IDs, are accepted.[11] In Quebec, the voter must show one of five government-issued photo IDs, and if lacking any of these, will be directed to the identity verification panel.[12] In British Columbia, "all voters must prove their identity and residential address before voting", with three options offered for identification.[13]
France

In France, voters must prove their identity to vote: at the registration (proof of address — A phone, water or electricity invoice... — and an identity document that proves your nationality — National Identity Card or Passport — and on the day of the vote, in towns larger than 1000 inhabitants, an identity document is required.[14][15]
Finland

In Finnish elections, eligible voters are sent a notice of the right to vote (notification of eligibility) to their home address by mail. The notification of eligibility will designate a voter's polling station, where voters must cast their vote, if voting on election day. Advance voting is possible at any of the general advance polling stations in Finland or abroad. Voters must present an identity document when voting. Voters are encouraged to bring along their notice of the right to vote.[16]
Germany

Germany uses a community-based resident registration system. Everyone eligible to vote receives a personal polling notification by mail, some weeks before the election. The notification indicates the voter's precinct polling station. Voters must present their polling notification and if asked a piece of photo ID (identity card), passport, form of identification). As a rule identification is not required other than by the polling notification. If the voter cannot present the notification, a valid ID and an entry in the register of voters can qualify for voting.[17][18]
Greece

Voters identify themselves by their ID cards and are given the full number of ballot papers for the constituency plus a blank ballot paper and an empty envelope.

From: Elections in Greece
Hungary

Voting is voluntary for all citizens 18 years or older. All voters should show a photo ID and an address card. To prevent the double voting they need to register themself if they want to vote at a different place than their address on their address card.
Iceland

Voting is voluntary for all citizens 18 years or older. All voters must present photo ID before being allowed to vote. To prevent double-voting fraud, every voter is checked against the national voter database before their ballot is placed into the ballot box.[19]
India

The Indian voter ID card is an identity document issued by the Election Commission of India to adult domiciles of India who have reached the age of 18, which primarily serves as an identity proof for Indian citizens while casting their ballot in the country's municipal, state, and national elections. It also serves as general identity, address, and age proof for other purposes such as buying a mobile phone SIM card or applying for a passport. It also serves as a Travel Document to travel to Nepal and Bhutan by Land or Air[20] It is also known as Electoral Photo ID Card (EPIC). It was first introduced in 1993 during the tenure of the Chief Election Commissioner TN Seshan.[21] There are 11 other types of alternative identification documents specified that can be accepted for voting[22]
Israel

Similar to Germany, there is a national voters database and photo ID is required (identity card, passport or driving license).[23]
Italy
Italian voter card ("Tessera elettorale")

Italy requires voters to present a photo ID (ID card, driver license, passport) and a voter card ("Tessera elettorale"), which can also be issued on election day.
Mexico

In Mexico voting is a voluntary right and is exercised protected by secrecy. Electoral laws are created by the federal government through the INE: National Electoral Institute (formerly IFE: Instituto Nacional Electoral 1990-2014). A free photo ID or elector's card is issued by right to all citizens of Mexico over 18, but sometimes months prior. Being allowed to commence paperwork before turning 18 is decided upon the day and month of birth, and how it plays in the current year's electoral calendar, as the institute suspends all new registries several months prior to any election. This action allows young Mexicans turning 18 within an inactive period to still enroll and guarantee their right to participate in the coming election. Full legal age in Mexico is 18 for both born and naturalized citizens. The voting ID card was introduced in 1990 by the now inactive IFE as a tool to "properly identify electors in a country with a history of voters casting multiple ballots and curious vote counts resulting in charges of fraud."[24] After 2014 the IFE was deemed permanently inactive due to minor constitutional reforms, therefore the INE was simultaneously created. Although both institutes carry out almost exactly the same tasks and duties, this change allowed for yet further homogenization of elections in the country and opening way to what many Mexicans and members of the international community call the first ever legal elections in the country, in 2017. The INE elector's card is currently used in Mexico as the main mean of age and identity validation for legal, commercial and financial purposes, making this a vital document for all Mexicans over the age of 18, and consequently broadening the chance for more citizens participating on election day.
Netherlands

The registration office of each municipality in the Netherlands maintains a registration of all residents. Every eligible voter receives a personal polling notification by mail some weeks before the election, indicating the polling station of the voter's precinct. Voters must present their polling notification and a piece of photo ID (passport, identity card, or drivers license (a passport or ID is compulsory from the age of 14)). Such photo ID may be expired but not by more than five years.[25]
Norway

Voting in Norway is voluntary for citizens 18 years or older (16 in some municipalities). Every person who is eligible to vote is sent a polling card in the mail about 6 months prior to the election. The polling card recommends the closest voting location to you, usually the closest school, community building or similar. Voters are not required to vote at their assigned location, but they are required to vote within your municipality, unless voting early. Early votes can be submitted at any official polling place in the country. The polling card contains the date(s) of the election, opening times of polling locations and information on how to vote. While it is not mandatory to bring the polling card on the day(s) of the election, it generally makes the process smoother. However, a photographic ID, such as a passport or a driver's license, is required to vote. During the election day after you pick your party, you present your photographic ID and optionally your poll card to the poll attendants who verifies the information against a database, and record that you have voted.[26]
Sweden

When physically voting on election day, every voter must provide a valid identification document (such as a passport, drivers license, or an ID card from the Swedish Tax Agency). If a voter is missing valid identification, another person with valid ID-documents can certify the identity of the documentless voter.[27]
Switzerland

There are up to three different ways to vote at the national and cantonal level in Switzerland: 1) directly at the polling station, bringing along some ID (ID card, passport) and the voting material sent by mail three to four weeks before election day; 2) postal voting, by following the instructions included in the voting material sent by mail; 3) voting online, offered in 10 cantons at the beginning of 2019, but not yet at the national level.[28] E-voting is a contentious issue, particularly with regard to a projected digital ID, which raises concerns regarding confidentiality, security and verifiability.
United Kingdom

Photographic identification is mandatory to vote in elections in Northern Ireland.[29]

Before any election all eligible voters are sent a poll card by their local authority, but it is not a requirement to be in possession of a poll card to vote.[30] Voters are asked to give their name and address at the polling station. Also in order to be registered, voters are required to provide their National Insurance number.[31]

A voter ID trial was held for the 2018 United Kingdom local elections by the national Conservative government. Voters in 5 local authorities in England (Bromley, Gosport, Swindon, Watford and Woking) were required to show ID before voting.[32][33] The legal basis for the trial has been contested.[34]

Pretty much. The only people I know who haven't gotten their ReadlID are republicans, because they don't want to do all the paperwork. Ironic, no?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. You don't actually need an ID for most of those. Businesses often ask for one as a means of limiting their liability but one isn't strictly required. Air travel is the big exception.

2. There are often a variety of different documents one can use in those circumstances. It is not strictly limited to one specific type.

3. The new voter rules being pushed tend to limit things to one specific form of ID. For example, one of the Dakotas limited it to a state issued drivers license with a street address. It just so happens that Native Americans that lived on the reservation tended to have a Tribal Authority ID and did not have a standard street address. Notice that a passport doesn't count under those rules.

At this point a national voter ID is probably a good idea just to make this issue go away. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap between people against a national ID but for ID requirements for voting.

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise.

There also is a history of conservative counties with colleges in them trying to prevent students from registering and voting locally with their school IDs. A few Virginia counties tried that back in 2008 and 2012 against Obama and courts had to make them allow students to register. Now they have to let them register but they will purge them after every election so the students have to re-register to be able to vote again the next year even if they haven't moved from their campus address.

Indeed. A national voter ID, which would not have a fixed address, could supercede all that. They'd then go back to complaining about government control

Anonymous wrote:1. You don't actually need an ID for most of those. Businesses often ask for one as a means of limiting their liability but one isn't strictly required. Air travel is the big exception.

2. There are often a variety of different documents one can use in those circumstances. It is not strictly limited to one specific type.

3. The new voter rules being pushed tend to limit things to one specific form of ID. For example, one of the Dakotas limited it to a state issued drivers license with a street address. It just so happens that Native Americans that lived on the reservation tended to have a Tribal Authority ID and did not have a standard street address. Notice that a passport doesn't count under those rules.

At this point a national voter ID is probably a good idea just to make this issue go away. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap between people against a national ID but for ID requirements for voting.

The people who think it is simple for everyone to have a valid ID are middle-income and up white people who own homes and stay in one place for 30/40 years or until black families move into their neighborhoods.

Low and moderate income people, especially in urban areas, are less likely to have a long-term fixed address. They tend to move around quite a bit, and occasionally live with other people who may or may not be related to them, their names might not be on the lease or utility bills or the other documents required for an ID, and they may not be planning to stay in that place long enough to bother updating an ID with an old address on it. Those are people that Republicans want to disenfranchise.

There also is a history of conservative counties with colleges in them trying to prevent students from registering and voting locally with their school IDs. A few Virginia counties tried that back in 2008 and 2012 against Obama and courts had to make them allow students to register. Now they have to let them register but they will purge them after every election so the students have to re-register to be able to vote again the next year even if they haven't moved from their campus address.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since most Americans, including Democrats and black Americans, are in favor of voter ID requirements, what is it that those who are pushing against voter ID requirements are angling for?

Great question.

It isn’t being done in good faith. It is intended to suppress black and Latino and young voters. It may look neutral to you but the people pushing it know that their state and local election officials will always apply rules more strictly to obstruct black voters. They will make it harder for some people to get the required IDs or to update IDs and they will continue to put up other obstacles to suppress black votes, e.g. rigging precinct size, location, capacity, staffing to ensure long lines and waits. These racists cannot be trusted to enforce election laws fairly and equally. They have no intention of doing so. This is not targeted at fraud. It is targeted at depressing turnout among certain types of eligible voters.

So this is about what you FEEL their goals are. There's a whole lot of hypothesizing and impugning motives in these discussions. There are many states that require voters to have ID that are not Republican led states.

DP. I have not seen one reason for voter ID laws backed up with evidence for their necessity on this thread. It’s ironic that you are so dismissive of FEELINGS because that’s the only reason you want voter ID.

Countries all over the world require voter ID. Are they all paranoid? Services and purchases of all kinds require ID. Should the US stop with all the nonsense?

Countries all over the world make it EASIER for their citizens to vote — with national holidays, automatic registration, and expanding rather than reducing different voting options. “All kinds”? Wow! If you’re going to argue for the relevance of your point, generalizations such as “all kinds” and unspecified “nonsense “ really aren’t helping.

This is starting to feel like trying to get sense out of Tucker Carlson: unsupported opinionated generalizations that are trying to masquerade as genuine arguments when, really, they’re more like entertainment.

From two pages back. I suppose you can choose to hop on a 17 page thread without reading anything that came before, but it makes one look like an ass. Allow me to spoon feed you:

You need ID to cash a check.
You need ID to buy alcohol.
You need ID to buy tobacco.
You need ID to buy a gun.
You need ID to get into many govt buildings.
You need ID to get onto secure federal property.
You need ID to rent or buy an apartment or home.
You need ID to get on a plane.
You need ID to get a library card.
You need ID to buy a fishing license.
You need ID to open a bank account.
You need ID to receive govt benefits like WIC and EBT.
You need ID to apply for a job.
You need ID to buy or rent a car.
You need ID to go into any school building in the country.
You need ID to get medical treatment.
You need ID to apply to colleges.
You need ID to get into a many bars/clubs.
You need ID to get into many community centers / pools

...but don't you know there are tons of black people who never do any of these things, but they do want to vote, and they are too poor, unmotivated, and disabled to get an ID.

The Republicans (and most Democrats) are pushing voter ID to disenfranchise this critical voting block.

I would love to know in percentage terms how many people exist in America that don't have an ID, preventing them from doing all the things above, can't be bothered to get one, and want to vote.

It is amazing watching the manufactured controversy over even the most minimal effort to ensure our elections are secure.

Again, please provide some evidence that voter ID is needed. There is not one iota of evidence in this thread that there is a need for voter id requirements. Nor has there been evidence that other countries have similar requirements.

Are you still asking someone to provide data about the voting requirements of other countries? Why are you so lazy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

Here’s what’s ironic... at least the first five examples on that page don’t strictly require photo is except for Brazil which is moving to biometric ID.

So your original premise that all other countries require ID is incorrect.

Good job! You played yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since most Americans, including Democrats and black Americans, are in favor of voter ID requirements, what is it that those who are pushing against voter ID requirements are angling for?

Great question.

It isn’t being done in good faith. It is intended to suppress black and Latino and young voters. It may look neutral to you but the people pushing it know that their state and local election officials will always apply rules more strictly to obstruct black voters. They will make it harder for some people to get the required IDs or to update IDs and they will continue to put up other obstacles to suppress black votes, e.g. rigging precinct size, location, capacity, staffing to ensure long lines and waits. These racists cannot be trusted to enforce election laws fairly and equally. They have no intention of doing so. This is not targeted at fraud. It is targeted at depressing turnout among certain types of eligible voters.

So this is about what you FEEL their goals are. There's a whole lot of hypothesizing and impugning motives in these discussions. There are many states that require voters to have ID that are not Republican led states.

DP. I have not seen one reason for voter ID laws backed up with evidence for their necessity on this thread. It’s ironic that you are so dismissive of FEELINGS because that’s the only reason you want voter ID.

Countries all over the world require voter ID. Are they all paranoid? Services and purchases of all kinds require ID. Should the US stop with all the nonsense?

Countries all over the world make it EASIER for their citizens to vote — with national holidays, automatic registration, and expanding rather than reducing different voting options. “All kinds”? Wow! If you’re going to argue for the relevance of your point, generalizations such as “all kinds” and unspecified “nonsense “ really aren’t helping.

This is starting to feel like trying to get sense out of Tucker Carlson: unsupported opinionated generalizations that are trying to masquerade as genuine arguments when, really, they’re more like entertainment.

From two pages back. I suppose you can choose to hop on a 17 page thread without reading anything that came before, but it makes one look like an ass. Allow me to spoon feed you:

You need ID to cash a check.
You need ID to buy alcohol.
You need ID to buy tobacco.
You need ID to buy a gun.
You need ID to get into many govt buildings.
You need ID to get onto secure federal property.
You need ID to rent or buy an apartment or home.
You need ID to get on a plane.
You need ID to get a library card.
You need ID to buy a fishing license.
You need ID to open a bank account.
You need ID to receive govt benefits like WIC and EBT.
You need ID to apply for a job.
You need ID to buy or rent a car.
You need ID to go into any school building in the country.
You need ID to get medical treatment.
You need ID to apply to colleges.
You need ID to get into a many bars/clubs.
You need ID to get into many community centers / pools

...but don't you know there are tons of black people who never do any of these things, but they do want to vote, and they are too poor, unmotivated, and disabled to get an ID.

The Republicans (and most Democrats) are pushing voter ID to disenfranchise this critical voting block.

I would love to know in percentage terms how many people exist in America that don't have an ID, preventing them from doing all the things above, can't be bothered to get one, and want to vote.

It is amazing watching the manufactured controversy over even the most minimal effort to ensure our elections are secure.

Again, please provide some evidence that voter ID is needed. There is not one iota of evidence in this thread that there is a need for voter id requirements. Nor has there been evidence that other countries have similar requirements.

Are you still asking someone to provide data about the voting requirements of other countries? Why are you so lazy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws

Awesome, now provide some evidence why the US’s existing laws are inadequate compared to these countries. It should be as easy as posting a random Wikipedia page, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. You don't actually need an ID for most of those. Businesses often ask for one as a means of limiting their liability but one isn't strictly required. Air travel is the big exception.

2. There are often a variety of different documents one can use in those circumstances. It is not strictly limited to one specific type.

3. The new voter rules being pushed tend to limit things to one specific form of ID. For example, one of the Dakotas limited it to a state issued drivers license with a street address. It just so happens that Native Americans that lived on the reservation tended to have a Tribal Authority ID and did not have a standard street address. Notice that a passport doesn't count under those rules.

At this point a national voter ID is probably a good idea just to make this issue go away. Ironically, there is a lot of overlap between people against a national ID but for ID requirements for voting.

Exactly. And not that OP will read this, but it affects older people a great deal.

For Older Voters, Getting The Right ID Can Be Especially Tough

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/07/644648955/for-older-voters-getting-the-right-id-can-be-especially-tough

Three dozen states require voters to show identification at the polls. And almost half of those states want photo IDs. But there are millions of eligible voters who don't have them. A 2012 survey estimated that 7 percent of American adults lack a government-issued photo ID.

While some organizations have sued to overturn these laws, a nonprofit organization called Spread The Vote has taken a different tack: It helps people without IDs get them. And people over 50 years of age have presented some of their biggest challenges.

On a recent Tuesday morning in Austell, Ga., 53-year-old Pamela Moon tried to get a replacement for an ID she had lost. She worked with a Spread The Vote volunteer at the Sweetwater Mission. The group sends volunteers to the mission every other Tuesday, so that people who come for food and clothes can get help obtaining a Georgia ID at the same time.

Georgia is one of seven states with particularly strict voter ID requirements, which demand that voters show a government-issued photo ID in order to cast a ballot in person. Advocates for voter ID laws argue that showing identification at the polls reduces the incidence of voter fraud, although studies have repeatedly shown that in-person voter fraud is extremely rare.

Moon never had a driver's license. "I can drive," she said, but she never got her license, "'cause I can't afford to buy no car."

Bill Cox, a volunteer for Spread The Vote, told Moon she needs a birth certificate to get a replacement ID. She lost that, too, she said.

"We will help you get that," Cox told her. "We will pay for it."

This is a relief for Moon. In Georgia, the cost of a birth certificate and a photo ID is $57 and she lives mostly off her disability benefits. In fact, studies show that most people who lack official state IDs are low income and they have more urgent concerns than just voting.

57 bucks is outrageous. It's a poll tax, and is should be unconstitutional.

$57 is cheap comparatively. I posted links a few pages back about folks needing to pay $200+ to correct errors made on their birth certificates decades ago. But I guess they just don’t get to vote.