Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 13:07     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Decision would be easy for me.

High performers with 99th percentile IQ type scores (if you know) plus coming from a high performing school. Not worth it this year. You'd be better off at your home school with the other high performers who would have gotten in in previous years.

If you have a child who is a lower performer and got lucky in the lottery and your child is in a lower performing school you may want to consider.



Sounds like your child wasn't selected and trying to get off the WL. Magnet programs speak for themselves. Begone, sour grapes!


Nice try. DC is in magnet now in 8th. Not worth it for this year's cohort coming from a school with a good peer group.


It seems like any kid with decent grades and 240/235 MAP-M/MAP-R respectively made the pool, but since selection wasn't based on scores this year fewer outliers will end up in these programs. Sure, these are great programs but it isn't going to be the same.


Since there are more kids with scores in the 240s, I'd expect the magnets this year to be solid but not stellar students. This was a predictable outcome since they are using a lottery to select from a pool.


It is really hit or miss who they take. My kid in the 250's didn't get in, waitlisted for one but other kids in the 230's/240's got in. Same grades. This was pre-lottery.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 13:06     Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's offensive and insulting to those that suggest that "prepping" is unfair and those that do and get high scores, are not deserving. Artists and musicians are applauded for the hours of hard work they put in to fine tune their abilities. Athletes train for hours on end to better themselves. High academic achievement is not just because of prepping - its because the student worked hard on it.

Every child who works on their craft should be applauded for their efforts and recognized for it. I know this will fall on deaf years and so be it.


This has been discussed ad nauseam on other threads and I'm sure will be again, but...

There is a difference between studying (doing homework, preparing for a test in a class, working on an essay, studying for an AP exam) and prepping (preparing for a test like the CogAT, which is meant to be taken unprepped). No one objects to the former, which is most analogous to the sports/arts. Lots of people object to the latter.


We bought a Cogat prep book as its a very different kind of test just to get our child familiar with it. What is the big deal to that? We also heavily supplemented at home, never with tutors as the curriculum was lacking. We didn't do it for the magnet program and our child had zero interest in them but to keep them on grade level and prepare them for MS.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 12:19     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any data or numbers to help understand this better?

The only numbers that I know is that the upcounty MS magnets have 50 seats each, so 100 seats total upcounty.

I would greatly appreciate if anyone could help provide the following data:

- How many downcounty magnet seats at Eastern and TPMS?
- How many selected in pools for lottery?
- How many total 6th Graders?

This would just help me to better understand and contextualize what is going on here. Thanks in advance!
-

Bump

Thanks everyone. So roughly 3% of 6th Graders will be in these MS magnets next year.

Eastern - 100

TPMS - 120, of which 20 seats go to kids who are in-bounds for TPMS

MCPS has not released the number of kids who were in-pool this year

There are roughly 7000 5th graders district-wide this year. If we assume up-county and down-county are roughly equal, that's 3500 kids





Where do you get that number? There were 11000 fifth graders last year. I can't imagine it's dropped that much.


It dropped about 1% according to the county. They're numbers are significantly off.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 12:13     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Since there are more kids with scores in the 240s, I'd expect the magnets this year to be solid but not stellar students. This was a predictable outcome since they are using a lottery to select from a pool.

Your kid didn't make the cut, huh?
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 11:43     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Decision would be easy for me.

High performers with 99th percentile IQ type scores (if you know) plus coming from a high performing school. Not worth it this year. You'd be better off at your home school with the other high performers who would have gotten in in previous years.

If you have a child who is a lower performer and got lucky in the lottery and your child is in a lower performing school you may want to consider.



Sounds like your child wasn't selected and trying to get off the WL. Magnet programs speak for themselves. Begone, sour grapes!


Nice try. DC is in magnet now in 8th. Not worth it for this year's cohort coming from a school with a good peer group.


It seems like any kid with decent grades and 240/235 MAP-M/MAP-R respectively made the pool, but since selection wasn't based on scores this year fewer outliers will end up in these programs. Sure, these are great programs but it isn't going to be the same.


Since there are more kids with scores in the 240s, I'd expect the magnets this year to be solid but not stellar students. This was a predictable outcome since they are using a lottery to select from a pool.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 11:39     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Decision would be easy for me.

High performers with 99th percentile IQ type scores (if you know) plus coming from a high performing school. Not worth it this year. You'd be better off at your home school with the other high performers who would have gotten in in previous years.

If you have a child who is a lower performer and got lucky in the lottery and your child is in a lower performing school you may want to consider.



Sounds like your child wasn't selected and trying to get off the WL. Magnet programs speak for themselves. Begone, sour grapes!


Nice try. DC is in magnet now in 8th. Not worth it for this year's cohort coming from a school with a good peer group.


It seems like any kid with decent grades and 240/235 MAP-M/MAP-R respectively made the pool, but since selection wasn't based on scores this year fewer outliers will end up in these programs. Sure, these are great programs but it isn't going to be the same.



Outliers manufactured in cram schools? No thanks. We can create outliers in any school if busloads of kids were made to take extra classes. MCPS magnets should be spreading their resources to all schools regardless of wealth and casting their nets for potential, not cram-ability.
You're right. These programs aren't going to be the same. They will be better.


You're assuming a lot of things that aren't factual. However, we do know that many kids with lower scores were randomly selected over ones with higher-scores. I'm guessing both prepped to the gills just some are smarter.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 11:04     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results


So it's devolved to the usual fight.
Let me add my two cents:

1. You cannot prepare for Cogat tests and similar, however much you try! Go ahead, try - it won't change your score significantly, and anyone telling you differently is lying to you (and taking your money)

2. You CAN prepare for MAP-M, since it's simply a knowledge based assessment. However, young children with stratospheric MAP-M demonstrate unusual abilities to process, retain and analyze mathematical information, so whether they're prepped or not, they are still magnet material.

3. The MAP-R test is significantly harder to prepare for than the MAP-M, because in addition to years of reading at a high level and developing excellent vocabulary and inferencing skills, it tests MATURITY. Children with very high MAP-R scores demonstrate a highly mature and informed understanding of the world and relationships, through various texts. This is why you never see a 280 on a 5th grade MAP-R, but you do see it in MAP-M.


Conclusion:

Prep as much as you want! It will make a difference in MAP-M. It won't for the rest.


Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 10:58     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Decision would be easy for me.

High performers with 99th percentile IQ type scores (if you know) plus coming from a high performing school. Not worth it this year. You'd be better off at your home school with the other high performers who would have gotten in in previous years.

If you have a child who is a lower performer and got lucky in the lottery and your child is in a lower performing school you may want to consider.



Sounds like your child wasn't selected and trying to get off the WL. Magnet programs speak for themselves. Begone, sour grapes!


Nice try. DC is in magnet now in 8th. Not worth it for this year's cohort coming from a school with a good peer group.


It seems like any kid with decent grades and 240/235 MAP-M/MAP-R respectively made the pool, but since selection wasn't based on scores this year fewer outliers will end up in these programs. Sure, these are great programs but it isn't going to be the same.



Outliers manufactured in cram schools? No thanks. We can create outliers in any school if busloads of kids were made to take extra classes. MCPS magnets should be spreading their resources to all schools regardless of wealth and casting their nets for potential, not cram-ability.
You're right. These programs aren't going to be the same. They will be better.


These thinly veiled racism is really tiresome. Busloads take these extra classes. Very few of them get in to the magnets.

Why are you conflating wealth with taking extra classes? All the extra classes in NY are full of kids who are FARMS and Asian. Nearly all the kids in NYC magnets who are Asian are also FARMS and/or ESOL.


Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 10:55     Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's offensive and insulting to those that suggest that "prepping" is unfair and those that do and get high scores, are not deserving. Artists and musicians are applauded for the hours of hard work they put in to fine tune their abilities. Athletes train for hours on end to better themselves. High academic achievement is not just because of prepping - its because the student worked hard on it.

Every child who works on their craft should be applauded for their efforts and recognized for it. I know this will fall on deaf years and so be it.


This has been discussed ad nauseam on other threads and I'm sure will be again, but...

There is a difference between studying (doing homework, preparing for a test in a class, working on an essay, studying for an AP exam) and prepping (preparing for a test like the CogAT, which is meant to be taken unprepped). No one objects to the former, which is most analogous to the sports/arts. Lots of people object to the latter.


No one prepares for the Cogat!! Give me a break. It's not an achievement test. Many families familiarize kids with the type of questions. Many many families do this. It takes about 5 minutes with pages printed from a web site.
If some families want to pay someone hundreds of dollars to "prep" they are wasting their time and money so who cares? It doesn't help. It is not helping these kids get in to anything.
Now some of those families also attend classes that reinforce basic math and reading skills. That helps generally but the same people I know who complain about "preppers" hire tutors or teach their own kids all this stuff. That is no different and I think that shows an involved family.

I'm not good at this so I don't send my kids to any of this but I think well of people who make this a priority. All my kids are in magnets.

Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 10:22     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Decision would be easy for me.

High performers with 99th percentile IQ type scores (if you know) plus coming from a high performing school. Not worth it this year. You'd be better off at your home school with the other high performers who would have gotten in in previous years.

If you have a child who is a lower performer and got lucky in the lottery and your child is in a lower performing school you may want to consider.



Sounds like your child wasn't selected and trying to get off the WL. Magnet programs speak for themselves. Begone, sour grapes!


Nice try. DC is in magnet now in 8th. Not worth it for this year's cohort coming from a school with a good peer group.


It seems like any kid with decent grades and 240/235 MAP-M/MAP-R respectively made the pool, but since selection wasn't based on scores this year fewer outliers will end up in these programs. Sure, these are great programs but it isn't going to be the same.


Well, not exactly. Just heard a friend of mine complained over the weekend that her kid from cold spring CES got excluded from the "pool" with a MAP-R over 240 and MAP-M over 250.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 09:36     Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:It's offensive and insulting to those that suggest that "prepping" is unfair and those that do and get high scores, are not deserving. Artists and musicians are applauded for the hours of hard work they put in to fine tune their abilities. Athletes train for hours on end to better themselves. High academic achievement is not just because of prepping - its because the student worked hard on it.

Every child who works on their craft should be applauded for their efforts and recognized for it. I know this will fall on deaf years and so be it.


This has been discussed ad nauseam on other threads and I'm sure will be again, but...

There is a difference between studying (doing homework, preparing for a test in a class, working on an essay, studying for an AP exam) and prepping (preparing for a test like the CogAT, which is meant to be taken unprepped). No one objects to the former, which is most analogous to the sports/arts. Lots of people object to the latter.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 09:31     Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
It's offensive and insulting to those that suggest that "prepping" is unfair and those that do and get high scores, are not deserving. Artists and musicians are applauded for the hours of hard work they put in to fine tune their abilities. Athletes train for hours on end to better themselves. High academic achievement is not just because of prepping - its because the student worked hard on it.

Every child who works on their craft should be applauded for their efforts and recognized for it. I know this will fall on deaf years and so be it.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 07:30     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Decision would be easy for me.

High performers with 99th percentile IQ type scores (if you know) plus coming from a high performing school. Not worth it this year. You'd be better off at your home school with the other high performers who would have gotten in in previous years.

If you have a child who is a lower performer and got lucky in the lottery and your child is in a lower performing school you may want to consider.



Sounds like your child wasn't selected and trying to get off the WL. Magnet programs speak for themselves. Begone, sour grapes!


Nice try. DC is in magnet now in 8th. Not worth it for this year's cohort coming from a school with a good peer group.


It seems like any kid with decent grades and 240/235 MAP-M/MAP-R respectively made the pool, but since selection wasn't based on scores this year fewer outliers will end up in these programs. Sure, these are great programs but it isn't going to be the same.



Outliers manufactured in cram schools? No thanks. We can create outliers in any school if busloads of kids were made to take extra classes. MCPS magnets should be spreading their resources to all schools regardless of wealth and casting their nets for potential, not cram-ability.
You're right. These programs aren't going to be the same. They will be better.
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 07:28     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:That makes no sense. You're talking about an entire program filled with top students from around the county vs. a home middle school classroom filled with a range of abilities, even in advance classes. There's no comparison. In addition, the lottery system will ensure there are fewer kids in the magnet that are prepped in outside classes who are overly competitive about grades and scores. That's the kind of cohort that I want my DC to be a part of.


You don't seem to understand. A school like Frost to use an example from the other thread might have several dozen kids who are highly able with all around high scores in the 99th or close to it percentile.

Only 1-3 will probably be at one of the magnets if probability holds they will be anywhere from 95-99th percentile. So the group left at Frost is likely more high scoring than those at the magnets. Throw in the commute and the social aspect of leaving friends and I could see how a family might choose to stay at the home school. Unless your child is unhappy at the neighborhood school due to lack of friends or is really obsessed with certain topics over others it makes a lot of sense to stay put. The kids in DC's magnet program seem pretty socially awkward and the parents say it's a reason they chose the magnet.


Especially this since those selected for the magnets were not the highest scoring but a random selection of bright kids. It stands to reason that fewer outliers were selected this year because of the lottery so there may be a stronger cohort at their home school.

+1
Anonymous
Post 03/01/2021 07:20     Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:
Granted, prepping for humanities is harder.
That's why I focused on math, which is more straightforward.

You don’t need to focus on either. Preppers getting all the seats isn’t happening because MCPS is so unclear in how they choose and have switched things up a couple times over the past few years. Hard to prep when you don’t even know how they select kids. Let it go.