Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do these expensive prep places help kids develop skills that are generally useful in life, or are they mostly learning how to perform well on a specific type of test? If you're going to spend that much time and effort on an extracurricular, you should walk away with some skills beyond being good at the TJ test.

I don't know what's covered at Curie, and they may already be doing a lot of this. I'd love to see the TJ admission metrics changed, because kids would be better off learning higher level math, learning grammar and writing, learning computer programming, learning another language, or playing a musical instrument than they would be with spending so much time learning how to take a test.

Yes, the students in TJ actually do all of this too. They are just multi-talented superior students. With metrics changed by TJ to include all of the above, we may be able to make TJ demographics to reach 80% Asian-American students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Race is not at issue here, but any reasonable observer has to conclude that it's really weird that basically all of these kids are of Indian descent. Clearly they studied the material hard, and congratulations to them for their acceptance. I have no issue with them. It would be really weird if they were all white or all Korean or all Black too. It's one thing when you have a majority, or even a supermajority, but like this? That's weird.

1. Don't know how you concluded "basically all of these kids are of Indian descent". I haven't seen any published demographic data that breaks down to any level below "Asian". My child is a TJ student and based on just my observation whenever I visited the school for BTSN, orientation etc, I suspect among asians it would be an even split between south and east asians.

2. The disproportionate enrollment of asians is reflected in the disproportionate ratio of asians in the applicant pool, which reflects the level of interest among asians to try for TJ. The slightly higher acceptance rate for asians compared to other groups is also not that surprising given the higher relative academic performance of asians in elementary and high school (reflected in SOLs and grades, which is publicly available date). Since you are a TJ advocate, you have probably seen the demographic data, but here it is anyways (http://www.fcag.org/TJ Admissions class of 2024.pdf):
Ethnic Applicant % Admitted % Acceptance rate
Asian 1423 56% 355 73% 25%
White 595 23% 86 18% 14%
Other 521 21% 45 9% 9%
Total 2539 100% 486 100% 19%

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Race is not at issue here, but any reasonable observer has to conclude that it's really weird that basically all of these kids are of Indian descent. Clearly they studied the material hard, and congratulations to them for their acceptance. I have no issue with them. It would be really weird if they were all white or all Korean or all Black too. It's one thing when you have a majority, or even a supermajority, but like this? That's weird.

1. Don't know how you concluded "basically all of these kids are of Indian descent". I haven't seen any published demographic data that breaks down to any level below "Asian". My child is a TJ student and based on just my observation whenever I visited the school for BTSN, orientation etc, I suspect among asians it would be an even split between south and east asians.

2. The disproportionate enrollment of asians is reflected in the disproportionate ratio of asians in the applicant pool, which reflects the level of interest among asians to try for TJ. The slightly higher acceptance rate for asians compared to other groups is also not that surprising given the higher relative academic performance of asians in elementary and high school (reflected in SOLs and grades, which is publicly available date). Since you are a TJ advocate, you have probably seen the demographic data, but here it is anyways (http://www.fcag.org/TJ Admissions class of 2024.pdf):

Ethnic Applicant % Admitted % Acceptance rate
Asian 1423 56% 355 73% 25%
White 595 23% 86 18% 14%
Other 521 21% 45 9% 9%
Total 2539 100% 486 100% 19%

Anonymous wrote:
Race is not at issue here, but any reasonable observer has to conclude that it's really weird that basically all of these kids are of Indian descent. Clearly they studied the material hard, and congratulations to them for their acceptance. I have no issue with them. It would be really weird if they were all white or all Korean or all Black too. It's one thing when you have a majority, or even a supermajority, but like this? That's weird.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything seems to be about “gaining an edge” and exploiting every possible angle with these TJHSST families. They absolutely suck all the fun out of high school with their grim zero-sum game mentality. It provides quite a window as to why applications from other students have been declining sharply.

Says the racist who cannot work hard.

TJ grad here who managed to get in without prepping, succeed without cheating, and graduate with a 4.1/1560/$10K+ in scholarship offers...all with minimal parental oversight. Sorry about your need to control your kid's entire life at any cost rather than actually raise a self-motivated individual.

Why are you bragging about 4.1 weighted gpa? It’s not bad but that is bottom half and 10k in scholarship money is way below average for TJ grad.

Probably because they have a good life and don't care about your assertion that they were bottom half. Might have been top half in other areas and gotten into great schools. Also, depending on when they graduated, 4.1 may very well have been very high - TJ and FCPS used to operate on a much different grading scale back in the day where APs received only a .5 weight and you needed a 94 to get a 4.0, and a 93.4 was a 3.5.

Ding ding ding. Early oughts grad. Post-APs didn't carry any extra GPA weight. 4.1 was top 10% of class. And guess what? This many years out, having attended TJ is literally nothing more than a fun conversation topic.

It's really pathetic that a specific cohort of parents (characterized mostly by their access to resources, lest you accuse me of being racist) has ruined AAP and TJ. Forcing your child to do nothing but prep and study and participate solely in academic extracurricular activities is not going to make them smarter, more capable, better people. You can scoff at "well rounded" all you want, but my writing and communication skills are what have helped me succeed in my career, not my [long-since-lost] ability to do multi-variable calculus.

I 100% believe that shady things are happening at specific test prep centers. I'm saddened that current students seem to be okay with that, much like they seem to be okay with rampant cheating just to get through basic their four years there. But just like the rise of private "college application counselors" when I was in high school, where wealthy parents paid for EXTENSIVE manipulation of their child's essays and application package - on evidence at TJ still today in the explosion of clubs and activities so that everyone can be "president" or "chair" of something - trying to get the parents of these kids NOT to cheat and game the academic system in favor of their children is like playing whack-a-mole. I'm with PP(s) who have opined that an entirely school-based identification, application, and selection process is the only way to even attempt to curb this influence, and it needs to start with AAP selection.

I agree with you generally but disagree with you that TJ students are not well-rounded or lack communication skills. I was pleasantly surprised that many TJ students I had met were "well-rounded" and had very good communication skills (speaking, writing, creativity etc.) and I felt that they would make great politicians due to their "soft skills/people skills). I think we have to get away from the notion that students who excel in STEM lack communication skills or that they are somehow not well-rounded/one-dimensional. For example, my TJ kid loved math and science but was also into history, government/politics, creative writing, music etc. and there were many kids like that at TJ unless things changed significantly in the last 4-5 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything seems to be about “gaining an edge” and exploiting every possible angle with these TJHSST families. They absolutely suck all the fun out of high school with their grim zero-sum game mentality. It provides quite a window as to why applications from other students have been declining sharply.

Says the racist who cannot work hard.

TJ grad here who managed to get in without prepping, succeed without cheating, and graduate with a 4.1/1560/$10K+ in scholarship offers...all with minimal parental oversight. Sorry about your need to control your kid's entire life at any cost rather than actually raise a self-motivated individual.

Why are you bragging about 4.1 weighted gpa? It’s not bad but that is bottom half and 10k in scholarship money is way below average for TJ grad.

Probably because they have a good life and don't care about your assertion that they were bottom half. Might have been top half in other areas and gotten into great schools. Also, depending on when they graduated, 4.1 may very well have been very high - TJ and FCPS used to operate on a much different grading scale back in the day where APs received only a .5 weight and you needed a 94 to get a 4.0, and a 93.4 was a 3.5.

Ding ding ding. Early oughts grad. Post-APs didn't carry any extra GPA weight. 4.1 was top 10% of class. And guess what? This many years out, having attended TJ is literally nothing more than a fun conversation topic.

It's really pathetic that a specific cohort of parents (characterized mostly by their access to resources, lest you accuse me of being racist) has ruined AAP and TJ. Forcing your child to do nothing but prep and study and participate solely in academic extracurricular activities is not going to make them smarter, more capable, better people. You can scoff at "well rounded" all you want, but my writing and communication skills are what have helped me succeed in my career, not my [long-since-lost] ability to do multi-variable calculus.

I 100% believe that shady things are happening at specific test prep centers. I'm saddened that current students seem to be okay with that, much like they seem to be okay with rampant cheating just to get through basic their four years there. But just like the rise of private "college application counselors" when I was in high school, where wealthy parents paid for EXTENSIVE manipulation of their child's essays and application package - on evidence at TJ still today in the explosion of clubs and activities so that everyone can be "president" or "chair" of something - trying to get the parents of these kids NOT to cheat and game the academic system in favor of their children is like playing whack-a-mole. I'm with PP(s) who have opined that an entirely school-based identification, application, and selection process is the only way to even attempt to curb this influence, and it needs to start with AAP selection.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do these expensive prep places help kids develop skills that are generally useful in life, or are they mostly learning how to perform well on a specific type of test? If you're going to spend that much time and effort on an extracurricular, you should walk away with some skills beyond being good at the TJ test.

I don't know what's covered at Curie, and they may already be doing a lot of this. I'd love to see the TJ admission metrics changed, because kids would be better off learning higher level math, learning grammar and writing, learning computer programming, learning another language, or playing a musical instrument than they would be with spending so much time learning how to take a test.

Yes, the students in TJ actually do all of this too. They are just multi-talented superior students. With metrics changed by TJ to include all of the above, we may be able to make TJ demographics to reach 80% Asian-American students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything seems to be about “gaining an edge” and exploiting every possible angle with these TJHSST families. They absolutely suck all the fun out of high school with their grim zero-sum game mentality. It provides quite a window as to why applications from other students have been declining sharply.

Says the racist who cannot work hard.

TJ grad here who managed to get in without prepping, succeed without cheating, and graduate with a 4.1/1560/$10K+ in scholarship offers...all with minimal parental oversight. Sorry about your need to control your kid's entire life at any cost rather than actually raise a self-motivated individual.

Why are you bragging about 4.1 weighted gpa? It’s not bad but that is bottom half and 10k in scholarship money is way below average for TJ grad.

Probably because they have a good life and don't care about your assertion that they were bottom half. Might have been top half in other areas and gotten into great schools. Also, depending on when they graduated, 4.1 may very well have been very high - TJ and FCPS used to operate on a much different grading scale back in the day where APs received only a .5 weight and you needed a 94 to get a 4.0, and a 93.4 was a 3.5.

Ding ding ding. Early oughts grad. Post-APs didn't carry any extra GPA weight. 4.1 was top 10% of class. And guess what? This many years out, having attended TJ is literally nothing more than a fun conversation topic.

It's really pathetic that a specific cohort of parents (characterized mostly by their access to resources, lest you accuse me of being racist) has ruined AAP and TJ. Forcing your child to do nothing but prep and study and participate solely in academic extracurricular activities is not going to make them smarter, more capable, better people. You can scoff at "well rounded" all you want, but my writing and communication skills are what have helped me succeed in my career, not my [long-since-lost] ability to do multi-variable calculus.

I 100% believe that shady things are happening at specific test prep centers. I'm saddened that current students seem to be okay with that, much like they seem to be okay with rampant cheating just to get through basic their four years there. But just like the rise of private "college application counselors" when I was in high school, where wealthy parents paid for EXTENSIVE manipulation of their child's essays and application package - on evidence at TJ still today in the explosion of clubs and activities so that everyone can be "president" or "chair" of something - trying to get the parents of these kids NOT to cheat and game the academic system in favor of their children is like playing whack-a-mole. I'm with PP(s) who have opined that an entirely school-based identification, application, and selection process is the only way to even attempt to curb this influence, and it needs to start with AAP selection.

Anonymous wrote:Do these expensive prep places help kids develop skills that are generally useful in life, or are they mostly learning how to perform well on a specific type of test? If you're going to spend that much time and effort on an extracurricular, you should walk away with some skills beyond being good at the TJ test.

I don't know what's covered at Curie, and they may already be doing a lot of this. I'd love to see the TJ admission metrics changed, because kids would be better off learning higher level math, learning grammar and writing, learning computer programming, learning another language, or playing a musical instrument than they would be with spending so much time learning how to take a test.

Anonymous wrote:Do these expensive prep places help kids develop skills that are generally useful in life, or are they mostly learning how to perform well on a specific type of test? If you're going to spend that much time and effort on an extracurricular, you should walk away with some skills beyond being good at the TJ test.

I don't know what's covered at Curie, and they may already be doing a lot of this. I'd love to see the TJ admission metrics changed, because kids would be better off learning higher level math, learning grammar and writing, learning computer programming, learning another language, or playing a musical instrument than they would be with spending so much time learning how to take a test.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything seems to be about “gaining an edge” and exploiting every possible angle with these TJHSST families. They absolutely suck all the fun out of high school with their grim zero-sum game mentality. It provides quite a window as to why applications from other students have been declining sharply.

Says the racist who cannot work hard.

TJ grad here who managed to get in without prepping, succeed without cheating, and graduate with a 4.1/1560/$10K+ in scholarship offers...all with minimal parental oversight. Sorry about your need to control your kid's entire life at any cost rather than actually raise a self-motivated individual.

Why are you bragging about 4.1 weighted gpa? It’s not bad but that is bottom half and 10k in scholarship money is way below average for TJ grad.

Probably because they have a good life and don't care about your assertion that they were bottom half. Might have been top half in other areas and gotten into great schools. Also, depending on when they graduated, 4.1 may very well have been very high - TJ and FCPS used to operate on a much different grading scale back in the day where APs received only a .5 weight and you needed a 94 to get a 4.0, and a 93.4 was a 3.5.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm probably the most active TJ reform advocate on these boards, and I don't have any need to see Curie or any individual students punished for what clearly happened here.

And what they did would not be an issue at all if the Quant-Q exam was not supposed to be secured. The SAT, ACT, LSAT, ACT Aspires, SHSAT, SSAT - all of these are unsecured exams.

Of all the prep academies that are out there - Optimal TJ Prep, Kate Dalby, Kumon, Mathnasium - this company got 51 kids in the first year, then 95 the second year, then 133 the third year. Those are enormous spikes for a company that has existed for as long as they have, in competition with a ton of other well-regarded companies in the area.

What we know because of what happened is that the secured exam is compromised. TJ Admissions makes a big deal every year about the fact that there's no prep available for this exam (unlike the two ACTs), and as a consequence, people believe that they must go into it blind. But there IS prep available, if you have $4200 and 16 months to spend on a company that has privileged access to it, that only exists in a part of Northern Virginia that is extremely far away from the major population centers of every race OTHER than Indian.

FCPS and TJ Admissions are not permitted to put out any prep material on the Quant-Q. They are disallowed legally by the company who makes the exam every year from doing so.

Other people want to go after Curie and the kids - fine. Whatever. My only point is that the exam is very obviously compromised at this point and therefore cannot be used(especially on a nationally-normed basis) to evaluate candidates for TJ.

In a year where holding the TJ exam under any circumstances is probably impossible because of COVID anyway, and where doing so would cause even more families to choose not to participate in the process, TJ Admissions needs to recognize that they have to make a change.

No. I do not agree with what you are saying. Mainly because what you are saying is informed by your envy and racism. The secure exam is not compromised. Pictures of the leaked paper or it did not happen. Who are you? Spawn of Trump? If you have guts and proof come out to Washington Post or even Fox. You are just a racist POS who is angry because your own kids are not up to par. Or are you a Mathnasium owner who is seeing your best Indian-American students flee to Curie?

I am not surprised by the spike in numbers for Curie admits. Indian parents will do their due diligence. If they like what Curie is teaching, if they like what the feedback is of their children and their friend's children and they see good results, they will give their money to that prep school. I am not surprised that many of the best Indian-American students with means went to Curie. No one wants to give their money to the unproven one. I predict next year it will be another 10% or more increase.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm probably the most active TJ reform advocate on these boards, and I don't have any need to see Curie or any individual students punished for what clearly happened here.

And what they did would not be an issue at all if the Quant-Q exam was not supposed to be secured. The SAT, ACT, LSAT, ACT Aspires, SHSAT, SSAT - all of these are unsecured exams.

Of all the prep academies that are out there - Optimal TJ Prep, Kate Dalby, Kumon, Mathnasium - this company got 51 kids in the first year, then 95 the second year, then 133 the third year. Those are enormous spikes for a company that has existed for as long as they have, in competition with a ton of other well-regarded companies in the area.

What we know because of what happened is that the secured exam is compromised. TJ Admissions makes a big deal every year about the fact that there's no prep available for this exam (unlike the two ACTs), and as a consequence, people believe that they must go into it blind. But there IS prep available, if you have $4200 and 16 months to spend on a company that has privileged access to it, that only exists in a part of Northern Virginia that is extremely far away from the major population centers of every race OTHER than Indian.

FCPS and TJ Admissions are not permitted to put out any prep material on the Quant-Q. They are disallowed legally by the company who makes the exam every year from doing so.

Other people want to go after Curie and the kids - fine. Whatever. My only point is that the exam is very obviously compromised at this point and therefore cannot be used(especially on a nationally-normed basis) to evaluate candidates for TJ.

In a year where holding the TJ exam under any circumstances is probably impossible because of COVID anyway, and where doing so would cause even more families to choose not to participate in the process, TJ Admissions needs to recognize that they have to make a change.

No. I do not agree with what you are saying. Mainly because what you are saying is informed by your envy and racism. The secure exam is not compromised. Pictures of the leaked paper or it did not happen. Who are you? Spawn of Trump? If you have guts and proof come out to Washington Post or even Fox. You are just a racist POS who is angry because your own kids are not up to par. Or are you a Mathnasium owner who is seeing your best Indian-American students flee to Curie?

I am not surprised by the spike in numbers for Curie admits. Indian parents will do their due diligence. If they like what Curie is teaching, if they like what the feedback is of their children and their friend's children and they see good results, they will give their money to that prep school. I am not surprised that many of the best Indian-American students with means went to Curie. No one wants to give their money to the unproven one. I predict next year it will be another 10% or more increase.