Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so I guess there’s no compromise on this situation. No matter what the wife does, it’s not good enough. It seems like it’s not as simple as men make it out: keep to same frequency as during early part of marriage and no cheating. Now there are additional conditions placed on the wives. It’s all wives who have to compromise.
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

No you don’t have to do all that. Dial back the kids/home/social planning/career if you can’t handle those things plus a normal sex life.

Dial back your kids??? I have three. Should I give one away?
Should I move to a townhouse??
And if my spouse isn't nice to me...I will need a social life to stay sane.
And if my spouse is such a selfish ass that his love depends on sex and sex only then damn straight i need to keep my career going so when he inevitably leaves me I can support my now two kids in our condo.

Yes, dial back the kids and house care. Find some stuff your husband can do, find some you can outsource, find some that doesn’t need to be done at all. Prioritize your marriage and a normal sex life, otherwise just go get a divorce now or accept that monogamy is not possible given the low priority you give to sustaining your marriage.

And wait: why are you married to a spouse who isn’t even nice to you? That makes no sense. Divorce him!

It’s is not a “selfish ass” for a spouse to need regular sex. Why don’t YOU actually want a normal sex life too? And if you view sex as such an unimportant thing, then it’s no big deal to just open the marriage and let your spouse go do that unimportant thing elsewhere.

I have said this a million times in this thread. The women I know who don't want to have sex with their husbands..
It's because the men are mean and critical to them 99% of the time except when they try to initiate for sex. And their idea of initiating is saying "wanna bone?" Or just grabbing them and trying to get them to touch their erection.

And these guys will NOT step up with the kids or the house. They probably deliberately screw up when they have to do Domestic things so they aren't asked again.

And sorry not sorry it is selfish if your love is conditional.

So yeah I have no idea why they don't divorce. I'm just trying to point out a woman's perspective and point out how men contribute to low sex marriage .

That is simply a dead relationship. She resents him, he resents her. Yet they both remain married for various reasons. But here's the thing: this husband is 100% definitely finding sex outside their marriage. Guaranteed, take that to the bank. Why are you even bringing up this "platonic room mate" example in this thread? Everybody knows this is a DADT situation and the man is definitely having sex elsewhere. Sorry I thought you had some worthwhile points to discuss but this "room mate" example is a black and white clear cut DADT.

Once again, you act like these losers can find willing partners at the drop of a hat. Guess what -- there are NOT a huge number of women lining up to have affairs with lazy, fat, unattractive 40-something dudes who can't even get it together to get divorced like a person with character would do.

And there is where you'd be dead wrong. Can any married man walk into a bar and get laid within 2 hours? No. But let me explain how this works. You know how you (and every other married woman) are sexually bored of your own husband, and would just as soon never have sex with that man again, so you avoid it like the plague, and hope he gets ED? Well over time, married women like you (eventually) start to miss having sex, start to long for the excitement, and want to be the object of a man's desire (just not your husband).

Then along comes a new interesting man (eg, anybody except your husband) who talks nicely to you, pays attention to you, asks you questions, and listens to your answers, and you start to feel a forgotten tingling sensation. As this man keeps showing lots of interest in you over the course of 2 or 3 weeks, you feel excited every time you see him, and look for reasons to have contact. This escalates, you love all the attention from this exciting new guy, you meet for coffee, you meet for drinks, and then you (unintentionally) slip and fall right into bed with him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never understood this. If you're able to find other people that you prefer than who you're with, then what's the point of wasting everyone's time? I read these threads of how people miss their ex-APs so much and it's honestly hurtful to even read and I can't imagine what their spouses would think.

I just need this explained to me.

I'm sure after 18 pages the obvious has been stated multiple times. But here you go:

1. A divorce is expensive. Both parties end up financially worse off.
2. People don't want to share holidays and weekends
3. Divorce is a huge hassle.
4. Divorce is not good for kids
5. Monogamy is not natural.

The thing is except for #4, all of the other reasons are selfish unless you’ve discussed it with your wife first and agreed to stay in marriage.
So the reason why men don’t leave their wives is due to selfishness plain and simple. It’s not that difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never understood this. If you're able to find other people that you prefer than who you're with, then what's the point of wasting everyone's time? I read these threads of how people miss their ex-APs so much and it's honestly hurtful to even read and I can't imagine what their spouses would think.

I just need this explained to me.

I'm sure after 18 pages the obvious has been stated multiple times. But here you go:

1. A divorce is expensive. Both parties end up financially worse off.
2. People don't want to share holidays and weekends
3. Divorce is a huge hassle.
4. Divorce is not good for kids
5. Monogamy is not natural.

The thing is except for #4, all of the other reasons are selfish unless you’ve discussed it with your wife first and agreed to stay in marriage.
So the reason why men don’t leave their wives is due to selfishness plain and simple. It’s not that difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so I guess there’s no compromise on this situation. No matter what the wife does, it’s not good enough. It seems like it’s not as simple as men make it out: keep to same frequency as during early part of marriage and no cheating. Now there are additional conditions placed on the wives. It’s all wives who have to compromise.
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

No you don’t have to do all that. Dial back the kids/home/social planning/career if you can’t handle those things plus a normal sex life.

Dial back your kids??? I have three. Should I give one away?
Should I move to a townhouse??
And if my spouse isn't nice to me...I will need a social life to stay sane.
And if my spouse is such a selfish ass that his love depends on sex and sex only then damn straight i need to keep my career going so when he inevitably leaves me I can support my now two kids in our condo.

Yes, dial back the kids and house care. Find some stuff your husband can do, find some you can outsource, find some that doesn’t need to be done at all. Prioritize your marriage and a normal sex life, otherwise just go get a divorce now or accept that monogamy is not possible given the low priority you give to sustaining your marriage.

And wait: why are you married to a spouse who isn’t even nice to you? That makes no sense. Divorce him!

It’s is not a “selfish ass” for a spouse to need regular sex. Why don’t YOU actually want a normal sex life too? And if you view sex as such an unimportant thing, then it’s no big deal to just open the marriage and let your spouse go do that unimportant thing elsewhere.

I have said this a million times in this thread. The women I know who don't want to have sex with their husbands..
It's because the men are mean and critical to them 99% of the time except when they try to initiate for sex. And their idea of initiating is saying "wanna bone?" Or just grabbing them and trying to get them to touch their erection.

And these guys will NOT step up with the kids or the house. They probably deliberately screw up when they have to do Domestic things so they aren't asked again.

And sorry not sorry it is selfish if your love is conditional.

So yeah I have no idea why they don't divorce. I'm just trying to point out a woman's perspective and point out how men contribute to low sex marriage .

That is simply a dead relationship. She resents him, he resents her. Yet they both remain married for various reasons. But here's the thing: this husband is 100% definitely finding sex outside their marriage. Guaranteed, take that to the bank. Why are you even bringing up this "platonic room mate" example in this thread? Everybody knows this is a DADT situation and the man is definitely having sex elsewhere. Sorry I thought you had some worthwhile points to discuss but this "room mate" example is a black and white clear cut DADT.

Once again, you act like these losers can find willing partners at the drop of a hat. Guess what -- there are NOT a huge number of women lining up to have affairs with lazy, fat, unattractive 40-something dudes who can't even get it together to get divorced like a person with character would do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I never understood this. If you're able to find other people that you prefer than who you're with, then what's the point of wasting everyone's time? I read these threads of how people miss their ex-APs so much and it's honestly hurtful to even read and I can't imagine what their spouses would think.

I just need this explained to me.

I'm sure after 18 pages the obvious has been stated multiple times. But here you go:

1. A divorce is expensive. Both parties end up financially worse off.
2. People don't want to share holidays and weekends
3. Divorce is a huge hassle.
4. Divorce is not good for kids
5. Monogamy is not natural.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

MEN have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of MEN are unsustainable. I mean why should MEN even try since they’re set up to fail.

Assuming women are the only ones who do the above is just disgustingly flawed and could only be puked out by a woman.

When have you remembered to get your kids to the Dentist? Yes - I make all appointments (regular cleanings) for all of our kids
Do you know where the winter clothes are? Yes - we both just pulled them out last weekend and made sure everything fits
Which of your kids is allergic to which antribiotic? None - I keep track of all the medical records, remember the health forms for school/camp
When is the last time you cooked a real dinner that includes the proper number of servings of vegetables? Last night actually - roasted broccoli, grilled salmon over angel hair pasta, tomato and mozzarella and a spinach salad. I cook 5-6 nights a week.

If you don't understand the invisible work of women and their mental load....well...I'm not sure there is hope for you and you will remain a hateful angry jerk

DH here- stop with the tired refrain already - see my answers to your questions.

Oh, I'm up before 5 am, workout for an hour, get breakfast ready for the kids (DW gets up around 7:15), leave by 7:05 to take our youngest (all our kids are teens) to shuttle stop, in the office by 7:30 and leave usually around 5 to get middle kid from her stop. Home by 5:30 and cook with dinner served typically by 6:30. I do the regular grocery shopping (and Costco orders) and make 5x as much as my DW (she works from home). She does plenty so no complaints, but I do plenty as well.

Anonymous wrote:I never understood this. If you're able to find other people that you prefer than who you're with, then what's the point of wasting everyone's time? I read these threads of how people miss their ex-APs so much and it's honestly hurtful to even read and I can't imagine what their spouses would think.

I just need this explained to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

MEN have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of MEN are unsustainable. I mean why should MEN even try since they’re set up to fail.

Assuming women are the only ones who do the above is just disgustingly flawed and could only be puked out by a woman.

When have you remembered to get your kids to the Dentist?
Do you know where the winter clothes are?
Which of your kids is allergic to which antribiotic?
When is the last time you cooked a real dinner that includes the proper number of servings of vegetables?

If you don't understand the invisible work of women and their mental load....well...I'm not sure there is hope for you and you will remain a hateful angry jerk

NP here, and one who wrote about having an affair up thread. If I had to guess why my wife has zero drive for me, it would be a combination of boredom which is normal and resentment from scorekeeping like this. FWIW, she is SAHM, so it seems fair to divide labor a little more traditionally, but perhaps you disagree.

All of this is honestly sad, since this is really why people have affairs. My AP asks none of this, of course, is thrilled to see me, we laugh, share jokes, have sex and part again until another opportunity presents. To be honest, as fun as it is, I would rather have that relationship with my wife, as affairs are risky and also mentally draining.

I’m the original poster. What you have written is so sad.

You seem to like your relationship with your AP because there are no responsibilities there. This is not real life and so it feels good. Your real life will have challenges/responsibilities/stress. You unfairly compare your real life to what you have with AP, and unfortunately your wife suffers in comparison.

Your wife knows you are not engaged in your real life and don’t want the challenges. Could it be your attitude that’s causing it the friction in your marriage?

This guy is the worst! Looking forward to his divorce, when he has to pay a nice monthly alimony and 1/2 of his 401k. Then it won't be quite as fun to spend all that $$ on his AP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^so I guess there’s no compromise on this situation. No matter what the wife does, it’s not good enough. It seems like it’s not as simple as men make it out: keep to same frequency as during early part of marriage and no cheating. Now there are additional conditions placed on the wives. It’s all wives who have to compromise.
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

No you don’t have to do all that. Dial back the kids/home/social planning/career if you can’t handle those things plus a normal sex life.

Dial back your kids??? I have three. Should I give one away?
Should I move to a townhouse??
And if my spouse isn't nice to me...I will need a social life to stay sane.
And if my spouse is such a selfish ass that his love depends on sex and sex only then damn straight i need to keep my career going so when he inevitably leaves me I can support my now two kids in our condo.

Yes, dial back the kids and house care. Find some stuff your husband can do, find some you can outsource, find some that doesn’t need to be done at all. Prioritize your marriage and a normal sex life, otherwise just go get a divorce now or accept that monogamy is not possible given the low priority you give to sustaining your marriage.

And wait: why are you married to a spouse who isn’t even nice to you? That makes no sense. Divorce him!

It’s is not a “selfish ass” for a spouse to need regular sex. Why don’t YOU actually want a normal sex life too? And if you view sex as such an unimportant thing, then it’s no big deal to just open the marriage and let your spouse go do that unimportant thing elsewhere.

I have said this a million times in this thread. The women I know who don't want to have sex with their husbands..
It's because the men are mean and critical to them 99% of the time except when they try to initiate for sex. And their idea of initiating is saying "wanna bone?" Or just grabbing them and trying to get them to touch their erection.

And these guys will NOT step up with the kids or the house. They probably deliberately screw up when they have to do Domestic things so they aren't asked again.

And sorry not sorry it is selfish if your love is conditional.

So yeah I have no idea why they don't divorce. I'm just trying to point out a woman's perspective and point out how men contribute to low sex marriage .

That is simply a dead relationship. She resents him, he resents her. Yet they both remain married for various reasons. But here's the thing: this husband is 100% definitely finding sex outside their marriage. Guaranteed, take that to the bank. Why are you even bringing up this "platonic room mate" example in this thread? Everybody knows this is a DADT situation and the man is definitely having sex elsewhere. Sorry I thought you had some worthwhile points to discuss but this "room mate" example is a black and white clear cut DADT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

MEN have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of MEN are unsustainable. I mean why should MEN even try since they’re set up to fail.

Assuming women are the only ones who do the above is just disgustingly flawed and could only be puked out by a woman.

When have you remembered to get your kids to the Dentist?
Do you know where the winter clothes are?
Which of your kids is allergic to which antribiotic?
When is the last time you cooked a real dinner that includes the proper number of servings of vegetables?

If you don't understand the invisible work of women and their mental load....well...I'm not sure there is hope for you and you will remain a hateful angry jerk

NP here, and one who wrote about having an affair up thread. If I had to guess why my wife has zero drive for me, it would be a combination of boredom which is normal and resentment from scorekeeping like this. FWIW, she is SAHM, so it seems fair to divide labor a little more traditionally, but perhaps you disagree.

All of this is honestly sad, since this is really why people have affairs. My AP asks none of this, of course, is thrilled to see me, we laugh, share jokes, have sex and part again until another opportunity presents. To be honest, as fun as it is, I would rather have that relationship with my wife, as affairs are risky and also mentally draining.

I’m the original poster. What you have written is so sad.

You seem to like your relationship with your AP because there are no responsibilities there. This is not real life and so it feels good. Your real life will have challenges/responsibilities/stress. You unfairly compare your real life to what you have with AP, and unfortunately your wife suffers in comparison.

Your wife knows you are not engaged in your real life and don’t want the challenges. Could it be your attitude that’s causing it the friction in your marriage?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

MEN have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of MEN are unsustainable. I mean why should MEN even try since they’re set up to fail.

Assuming women are the only ones who do the above is just disgustingly flawed and could only be puked out by a woman.

When have you remembered to get your kids to the Dentist?
Do you know where the winter clothes are?
Which of your kids is allergic to which antribiotic?
When is the last time you cooked a real dinner that includes the proper number of servings of vegetables?

If you don't understand the invisible work of women and their mental load....well...I'm not sure there is hope for you and you will remain a hateful angry jerk

How sexist. I am a man and do virtually of that in our house.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Women have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of women are unsustainable. I mean why should women even try since they’re set up to fail.

MEN have to maintain sex frequency/sex enthusiasm/kids/home/social planning/career. I mean expectations of MEN are unsustainable. I mean why should MEN even try since they’re set up to fail.

Assuming women are the only ones who do the above is just disgustingly flawed and could only be puked out by a woman.

When have you remembered to get your kids to the Dentist?
Do you know where the winter clothes are?
Which of your kids is allergic to which antribiotic?
When is the last time you cooked a real dinner that includes the proper number of servings of vegetables?

If you don't understand the invisible work of women and their mental load....well...I'm not sure there is hope for you and you will remain a hateful angry jerk