Oh, for chrissakes. I am not obese, and I never have been.

I am, however, a physician and a researcher and I have attended plenty of autopsies and surgeries in person, including on morbidly obese patients.

I also don't find "eww, gross" to be a tenable argument, and I certainly understand what is meant by "intent to treat" analysis of medical outcomes. You should, too.

Anonymous wrote:So this is what you do when you can't make an actual argument. Got it.

Are you talking about me, the person who posted the obese autopsy? I haven't posted in here and days. But go ahead and continue to pretend like you love being fat while it damages you from the inside out. But you're not doing yourself any favors. I say that as a formerly obese person myself. Go watch it. Clearly you did not.

Anonymous wrote:So this is what you do when you can't make an actual argument. Got it.

Yes, the fatlogic trolls have no ability to make an actual argument. Very slow people.

So this is what you do when you can't make an actual argument. Got it.

Watch a post-mortem autopsy on an obese women, and then defend the HAES movement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, the Reddit fatlogic trolls are so dumb. It's embarrassing.

Not a troll. It’s true. It’s one thing to love yourself no matter what; it’s another to convince yourself that being fat doesn’t come with all sorts of health consequences.

Like I said, really really stupid.

Signed,
Related to an obesity researcher who is an author of several of those studies you are too dim to understand.

NP here. I work in health care on a critical care team at a large hospital. Every single day that I go to work, I physically put my hands on people who are typically at the end of their lives in the ICU (non-trauma ICU; medical).

Obesity, and especially morbid obesity like Tess H., is a comorbidity that shortens the lifespan, and is a disease independent of other factors. I have a feeling your relative does cellular research, right? I witness the last breaths of dying people every single week and you know what? The large majority of them are fat. Many are profoundly fat, >350 lbs (male and female).

Show me data that contradict my lived professional experience, PP

DP

You "work in health care on a critical care team," but you are not trained as a physician, correct? Do you understand what is meant by relevant comparison groups, the difference between in vivo and invitro, and for the love of god, why you might have a "selection bias?"

I think it is quite obvious that PP has a dim understanding of either science or statistics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, the Reddit fatlogic trolls are so dumb. It's embarrassing.

Not a troll. It’s true. It’s one thing to love yourself no matter what; it’s another to convince yourself that being fat doesn’t come with all sorts of health consequences.

Like I said, really really stupid.

Signed,
Related to an obesity researcher who is an author of several of those studies you are too dim to understand.

NP here. I work in health care on a critical care team at a large hospital. Every single day that I go to work, I physically put my hands on people who are typically at the end of their lives in the ICU (non-trauma ICU; medical).

Obesity, and especially morbid obesity like Tess H., is a comorbidity that shortens the lifespan, and is a disease independent of other factors. I have a feeling your relative does cellular research, right? I witness the last breaths of dying people every single week and you know what? The large majority of them are fat. Many are profoundly fat, >350 lbs (male and female).

Show me data that contradict my lived professional experience, PP

DP

You "work in health care on a critical care team," but you are not trained as a physician, correct? Do you understand what is meant by relevant comparison groups, the difference between in vivo and invitro, and for the love of god, why you might have a "selection bias?"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, the Reddit fatlogic trolls are so dumb. It's embarrassing.

Not a troll. It’s true. It’s one thing to love yourself no matter what; it’s another to convince yourself that being fat doesn’t come with all sorts of health consequences.

Like I said, really really stupid.

Signed,
Related to an obesity researcher who is an author of several of those studies you are too dim to understand.

NP here. I work in health care on a critical care team at a large hospital. Every single day that I go to work, I physically put my hands on people who are typically at the end of their lives in the ICU (non-trauma ICU; medical).

Obesity, and especially morbid obesity like Tess H., is a comorbidity that shortens the lifespan, and is a disease independent of other factors. I have a feeling your relative does cellular research, right? I witness the last breaths of dying people every single week and you know what? The large majority of them are fat. Many are profoundly fat, >350 lbs (male and female).

Show me data that contradict my lived professional experience, PP

You don't understand statistics, do you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, the Reddit fatlogic trolls are so dumb. It's embarrassing.

Not a troll. It’s true. It’s one thing to love yourself no matter what; it’s another to convince yourself that being fat doesn’t come with all sorts of health consequences.

Like I said, really really stupid.

Signed,
Related to an obesity researcher who is an author of several of those studies you are too dim to understand.

NP here. I work in health care on a critical care team at a large hospital. Every single day that I go to work, I physically put my hands on people who are typically at the end of their lives in the ICU (non-trauma ICU; medical).

Obesity, and especially morbid obesity like Tess H., is a comorbidity that shortens the lifespan, and is a disease independent of other factors. I have a feeling your relative does cellular research, right? I witness the last breaths of dying people every single week and you know what? The large majority of them are fat. Many are profoundly fat, >350 lbs (male and female).

Show me data that contradict my lived professional experience, PP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the HAES hater is fundamentally misunderstanding the movement. It’s not that “every person at any size is healthy,” it’s that every person can make healthier choices and can enjoy better health, at any size. So HAES encourages me to take a walk around the block and drink more water, even if I don’t lose any weight as a result. HAES says don’t go on a restricted diet, but do choose healthier foods. Meet people where they are.

Your interpretation of HAES isn’t what they started off as. Their original purpose was to oppose the mainstream scientific consensus that obesity led to adverse health outcomes. Over time they have softened their stance because they have literally been unable to produce any rigorous evidence that their claims are true. I see them as the anti-vaxxers of obesity. https://www.medicaldaily.com/health-every-size-obesity-weight-loss-science-383008

You are literally making things up wholesale, which puts you much closer to being an antivaxxer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the HAES hater is fundamentally misunderstanding the movement. It’s not that “every person at any size is healthy,” it’s that every person can make healthier choices and can enjoy better health, at any size. So HAES encourages me to take a walk around the block and drink more water, even if I don’t lose any weight as a result. HAES says don’t go on a restricted diet, but do choose healthier foods. Meet people where they are.

Your interpretation of HAES isn’t what they started off as. Their original purpose was to oppose the mainstream scientific consensus that obesity led to adverse health outcomes. Over time they have softened their stance because they have literally been unable to produce any rigorous evidence that their claims are true. I see them as the anti-vaxxers of obesity. https://www.medicaldaily.com/health-every-size-obesity-weight-loss-science-383008

The article you linked defines HAES exactly as the first person above does? Not sure why you linked it to back up your “anti-vaxxers of obesity” claim but it’s a good description of the movement and why many people at very least support it’s claims if not the entire movement...

Anonymous wrote:I think the HAES hater is fundamentally misunderstanding the movement. It’s not that “every person at any size is healthy,” it’s that every person can make healthier choices and can enjoy better health, at any size. So HAES encourages me to take a walk around the block and drink more water, even if I don’t lose any weight as a result. HAES says don’t go on a restricted diet, but do choose healthier foods. Meet people where they are.

Your interpretation of HAES isn’t what they started off as. Their original purpose was to oppose the mainstream scientific consensus that obesity led to adverse health outcomes. Over time they have softened their stance because they have literally been unable to produce any rigorous evidence that their claims are true. I see them as the anti-vaxxers of obesity. https://www.medicaldaily.com/health-every-size-obesity-weight-loss-science-383008

I think the HAES hater is fundamentally misunderstanding the movement. It’s not that “every person at any size is healthy,” it’s that every person can make healthier choices and can enjoy better health, at any size. So HAES encourages me to take a walk around the block and drink more water, even if I don’t lose any weight as a result. HAES says don’t go on a restricted diet, but do choose healthier foods. Meet people where they are.

I think "healthy" in this setting is supposed to be "healthy as can be in the context," not "healthiest overall."

It's acknowledging that someone can be healthier by making certain choices -- and feel good about those choices -- regardless of whether you lose weight. Losing weight isn't the only metric.

And it's acknowledging that making the only goal be losing weight is often a prelude to failure. Would everyone with a lot of extra weight do better overall if -- all things considered -- they weighed less (and that was the only change)? Maybe so. (There is well-replicated evidence that you live longer as mildly overweight, but put that aside for now.)

But if that comes at the cost of an eating disorder and all the medical consequences that come with it, or yo-yo-ing weight up and down, or relying on smoking, or what have you -- maybe not. Better in those cases to make healthier choices at the weight you are at and not make bad ones because you prize losing weight over everything else.

HAES assumes that extremes can be healthy...so either really fat or really skinny. Would Eugenia Cooney be considered healthy? What about Tess? You can be beautiful at every size, but you certainly cannot be healthy at every size.