Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

There are other benefits -- people are choosing to focus on the achievement gap because its practically intractable. So if we can't fix it -- hey why do anything?

We should look at it from another way: if doing something would cause negative impact (e.g. longer bus rides), why doing it?

Because other benefits outweigh the positives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

There are other benefits -- people are choosing to focus on the achievement gap because its practically intractable. So if we can't fix it -- hey why do anything?

We should look at it from another way: if doing something would cause negative impact (e.g. longer bus rides), why doing it?

I have trouble believing this argument is really about long bus rides -- when people are clamoring to get their kids in CES and magnets which have long bus rides.

Anonymous wrote:

But what are those other benefits? Also, some PP way above just said that it was all about the achievement gap. So my response was, how do we know that it will really fix the achievement gap and now we have people jumping down my throat that it's more than just the achievement gap. As I said, I was just responding to what another PP above who said: It's all about closing the achievement gap rightly or wrongly that's what the goal of all of this is. To do that by having less high performing and low performing schools and you do that by tweaking boundaries to try and level out SES levels across attendance areas

But it isn't about closing the achievement gap.

Here's the resolution: https://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/B8C2XD77A17C/$file/20190108%20ADOPTED%20Rev%20Boundary%20Assessment%20Study-FAA.pdf

WHEREAS, There is significant evidence that greater racial and socioeconomic diversity in
schools provides academic and social/emotional benefits for all students; and
WHEREAS, Policy FAA, Educational Facilities Planning, now permits the superintendent and
Board of Education to consider boundary options that involve not only schools within a high school
cluster, but also other adjacent schools to alleviate the need for additions and portable classrooms;
and
WHEREAS, The Board of Education revised Policy FAA, Educational Facilities Planning, to
consider various factors when changing school boundaries, particularly developing options that
maximize facility utilization and strive to create a diverse student body; now therefore be it
Resolved, That the superintendent of schools hire a consultant, through the Request for Proposal
process and with the approval from the Board of Education, to review school boundaries in light
of revised Policy FAA, Educational Facilities Planning, gather information and data regarding
current school boundaries, benchmark with comparable school systems, and collect community
input on the opportunities and challenges related to boundary setting using multiple methods and
venues, including but not limited to Capital Improvements Program hearings in fall 2019; and be
it further
Resolved, That the consultant present the findings and options to the Board of Education and the
superintendent of schools with all deliberate speed, no later than spring 2020, and that the findings
and options explore potential modifications to current school boundaries that comport to the four
factors in Policy FAA, Educational Facilities Planning: student demographics, geography,
stability of assignments over time, and facility utilization; and be it further
Resolved, That, after receiving the consultant’s report, the Board of Education determine next
steps, including how to obtain feedback from the community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

There are other benefits -- people are choosing to focus on the achievement gap because its practically intractable. So if we can't fix it -- hey why do anything?

We should look at it from another way: if doing something would cause negative impact (e.g. longer bus rides), why doing it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Such as?

I sure hope that it's not the same people arguing, on the one hand, that the world will come to an end if they get rezoned for Seneca Valley High School, and, on the other hand, that a student at a high-poverty high school has exactly the same opportunities as a student at a low-poverty high school.

Yes, this lack of opportunity is BS. There IS opportunity for high achieving kids in practically every high school. SVHS has an IB program. Rockville HS has IB. Gaithersburg HS has Signature Academies. I'm not buying this BS that only schools with low FARMS have opportunity. EVERY kid, rich or poor, with the motivation, guidance, and ambition can succeed in any school in this county, even the ones that are disproportionately poorer than other schools. I've seen it. Yes, I think boundaries need to be reviewed from time to time to make sure they still work and that demographics aren't skewed disproportionately towards one group and where we can make adjustments WITHIN adjacent school clusters, then yes we should. BUt we need to not be supporting 45 minute bus rides. And even if boundaries are adjusted, let's not kid ourselves in thinking that this is actually helping low performing students who don't have the support at home. Let's be honest and realize that all this is doing is raising the AVERAGE test scores at low performing schools so that MCPS can say, "see we fixed it!"

bus routes aren't changing

It's all about closing the achievement gap rightly or wrongly that's what the goal of all of this is. To do that by having less high performing and low performing schools and you do that by tweaking boundaries to try and level out SES levels across attendance areas.

Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap? SO miraculously, a kid who goes to a low performing school who doesn't have the support at home will all of a sudden receive the at home support and the values and the skills needed to succeed in the newly assigned higher performing school?

What are you afraid of that your snowflake will be damaged by having poor kids in your school

Are you that obtuse to think that lower performing kids won't benefit from going to a school with higher performing kids

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

NP -- no one is proposing 45 min bus rides. I don't know if it will decrease the achievement gap -- but I still feel it is more equitable for FARMS to be spread out so there are not schools that are high percentage FARMS. Also this is about capacity issues - which no one seems to be discussing.

+1

And actually there is a study that suggests low income students who attend schools with less than about 25% FARMS do better than those students who go to a much higher FARMs rate schools.

Well, one benefit would be that at least some low-income kids would have access to the crazy 6-digit amounts that rich schools’ PTAs raise every year for “enrichment.” Lower and middle income schools are busy cutting Box Tops to get a few hundred dollars while the rich schools are pulling in obscene amounts to be used for new technology, books, field trips, after-school activities. This is not a case of loving your children more or valuing education more. Normal people just can’t cut $1000 checks for the PTA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No I'm not saying that at all. Inhale exhale please. As I said, schools shouldn't be disproportionately poor and if we can make adjustments we should do it as long as we're not imposing long bus rides to students. I also said that we should FIX the real issue and let's not think that boundary changes is a unicorn that will solve the problem of poor, low performing kids. MCPS can't get away that easy. Somehow some people have failed to learn the reason why kids fail at school. How do you help poor kids who are failing at school? Free tutoring, teaching kids the skills they need to succeed at school and to succeed in life (not go to jail, not get pregnant, etc.), having extra counselors so that they can navigate a difficult home life. Will changing schools give them that?

Fortunately NOBODY has sad that these boundary adjustments will solve all problems.

Also, there are many reasons why kids don't do well in school. As you say, there is not one, single, magic solution that will fix everything.

NP - also as far as I know - no one is proposing long bus rides.

But it's not off the table otherwise they wouldn't be proposing boundary options that result in long bus rides.

DP... there are currently boundaries that require "long" bus rides. Which boundary option requires bus rides that are longer than some of what exists today?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

There are other benefits -- people are choosing to focus on the achievement gap because its practically intractable. So if we can't fix it -- hey why do anything?

But what are those other benefits? Also, some PP way above just said that it was all about the achievement gap. So my response was, how do we know that it will really fix the achievement gap and now we have people jumping down my throat that it's more than just the achievement gap. As I said, I was just responding to what another PP above who said: It's all about closing the achievement gap rightly or wrongly that's what the goal of all of this is. To do that by having less high performing and low performing schools and you do that by tweaking boundaries to try and level out SES levels across attendance areas

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

There are other benefits -- people are choosing to focus on the achievement gap because its practically intractable. So if we can't fix it -- hey why do anything?

That does seem to be the argument.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

There are other benefits -- people are choosing to focus on the achievement gap because its practically intractable. So if we can't fix it -- hey why do anything?

Anonymous wrote:

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

Let's ask some other questions.

What is the maximum acceptable length of a bus ride, in minutes?

What benefits from boundary adjustments might there be, other than decreasing the achievement gap, or is decreasing the achievement gap the sole measure of educational benefit?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Such as?

I sure hope that it's not the same people arguing, on the one hand, that the world will come to an end if they get rezoned for Seneca Valley High School, and, on the other hand, that a student at a high-poverty high school has exactly the same opportunities as a student at a low-poverty high school.

Yes, this lack of opportunity is BS. There IS opportunity for high achieving kids in practically every high school. SVHS has an IB program. Rockville HS has IB. Gaithersburg HS has Signature Academies. I'm not buying this BS that only schools with low FARMS have opportunity. EVERY kid, rich or poor, with the motivation, guidance, and ambition can succeed in any school in this county, even the ones that are disproportionately poorer than other schools. I've seen it. Yes, I think boundaries need to be reviewed from time to time to make sure they still work and that demographics aren't skewed disproportionately towards one group and where we can make adjustments WITHIN adjacent school clusters, then yes we should. BUt we need to not be supporting 45 minute bus rides. And even if boundaries are adjusted, let's not kid ourselves in thinking that this is actually helping low performing students who don't have the support at home. Let's be honest and realize that all this is doing is raising the AVERAGE test scores at low performing schools so that MCPS can say, "see we fixed it!"

bus routes aren't changing

It's all about closing the achievement gap rightly or wrongly that's what the goal of all of this is. To do that by having less high performing and low performing schools and you do that by tweaking boundaries to try and level out SES levels across attendance areas.

Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap? SO miraculously, a kid who goes to a low performing school who doesn't have the support at home will all of a sudden receive the at home support and the values and the skills needed to succeed in the newly assigned higher performing school?

What are you afraid of that your snowflake will be damaged by having poor kids in your school

Are you that obtuse to think that lower performing kids won't benefit from going to a school with higher performing kids

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?

NP -- no one is proposing 45 min bus rides. I don't know if it will decrease the achievement gap -- but I still feel it is more equitable for FARMS to be spread out so there are not schools that are high percentage FARMS. Also this is about capacity issues - which no one seems to be discussing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No I'm not saying that at all. Inhale exhale please. As I said, schools shouldn't be disproportionately poor and if we can make adjustments we should do it as long as we're not imposing long bus rides to students. I also said that we should FIX the real issue and let's not think that boundary changes is a unicorn that will solve the problem of poor, low performing kids. MCPS can't get away that easy. Somehow some people have failed to learn the reason why kids fail at school. How do you help poor kids who are failing at school? Free tutoring, teaching kids the skills they need to succeed at school and to succeed in life (not go to jail, not get pregnant, etc.), having extra counselors so that they can navigate a difficult home life. Will changing schools give them that?

Fortunately NOBODY has sad that these boundary adjustments will solve all problems.

Also, there are many reasons why kids don't do well in school. As you say, there is not one, single, magic solution that will fix everything.

NP - also as far as I know - no one is proposing long bus rides.

But it's not off the table otherwise they wouldn't be proposing boundary options that result in long bus rides.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No I'm not saying that at all. Inhale exhale please. As I said, schools shouldn't be disproportionately poor and if we can make adjustments we should do it as long as we're not imposing long bus rides to students. I also said that we should FIX the real issue and let's not think that boundary changes is a unicorn that will solve the problem of poor, low performing kids. MCPS can't get away that easy. Somehow some people have failed to learn the reason why kids fail at school. How do you help poor kids who are failing at school? Free tutoring, teaching kids the skills they need to succeed at school and to succeed in life (not go to jail, not get pregnant, etc.), having extra counselors so that they can navigate a difficult home life. Will changing schools give them that?

Fortunately NOBODY has sad that these boundary adjustments will solve all problems.

Also, there are many reasons why kids don't do well in school. As you say, there is not one, single, magic solution that will fix everything.

NP - also as far as I know - no one is proposing long bus rides.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Such as?

I sure hope that it's not the same people arguing, on the one hand, that the world will come to an end if they get rezoned for Seneca Valley High School, and, on the other hand, that a student at a high-poverty high school has exactly the same opportunities as a student at a low-poverty high school.

Yes, this lack of opportunity is BS. There IS opportunity for high achieving kids in practically every high school. SVHS has an IB program. Rockville HS has IB. Gaithersburg HS has Signature Academies. I'm not buying this BS that only schools with low FARMS have opportunity. EVERY kid, rich or poor, with the motivation, guidance, and ambition can succeed in any school in this county, even the ones that are disproportionately poorer than other schools. I've seen it. Yes, I think boundaries need to be reviewed from time to time to make sure they still work and that demographics aren't skewed disproportionately towards one group and where we can make adjustments WITHIN adjacent school clusters, then yes we should. BUt we need to not be supporting 45 minute bus rides. And even if boundaries are adjusted, let's not kid ourselves in thinking that this is actually helping low performing students who don't have the support at home. Let's be honest and realize that all this is doing is raising the AVERAGE test scores at low performing schools so that MCPS can say, "see we fixed it!"

bus routes aren't changing

It's all about closing the achievement gap rightly or wrongly that's what the goal of all of this is. To do that by having less high performing and low performing schools and you do that by tweaking boundaries to try and level out SES levels across attendance areas.

Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap? SO miraculously, a kid who goes to a low performing school who doesn't have the support at home will all of a sudden receive the at home support and the values and the skills needed to succeed in the newly assigned higher performing school?

What are you afraid of that your snowflake will be damaged by having poor kids in your school

Are you that obtuse to think that lower performing kids won't benefit from going to a school with higher performing kids

Can you answer my question please instead of resorting to name calling? THis is the problem. Only in DCUM, if someone questions the solution to a problem to see if it is actually addressing the issue, the immediate response is anger. Do you agree kids should have 45 minutes bus rides to a school? Do you really think that changing the boundaries will decrease the achievement gap?