Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:i don’t think people always “try” to hide their privilege. i think they often don’t even see it. they really genuinely think everyone else (you) are more or less in the same boat as them. And they most likely do not even see how lucky they are to have been given so much by their parents, etc. They take it for granted.

This. My spouse and I got married and bought a home in our 30s like everyone else we know. Sure, our wedding wasn't as fancy and our home wasn't as big or as nice. But we still did it, so they all assumed that just like them, we'd gotten a chunk of change from our parents for our wedding and down payment.

Then a few years later, they renovated those first homes or upgraded to something nicer. We didn't. We were still just able to pay our mortgage and put away a little money each month. Hard to say if their parents financed the renovations or the second home. But by then, our friends also had a lot more in savings and more disposable income because they hadn't had to pay for their own weddings or down payments, or could put down bigger down payments for smaller mortgages.

Then we all had kids and the jig was up. Their parents showed up to provide childcare or pay for it. Their homes were bigger and nicer and they had full time nannies. They opened college savings accounts for their kids and suddenly they had 30-40k in them because of parental donations. They started vacationing mostly with family so that the grandparents could spend time with the kids, which is how you learn about the lake house or the pied a Terre in Paris or the winter home in Florida.

So we just started asking, because it became so obvious that we were in a different situation. Turns out most of them got a minimum of 20-30k for downpayment (most more like 50-100k) plus weddings paid for. Many had parents who paid all their non-housing bills basically until they were married, including cell phones and cable. Vacations often funded as well, especially special vacations like honeymoons or anniversary trips. When they had kids, parents paid for extras like doulas, cleaning services, 5k here and there to outfit a nursery or to go on a "baby moon". Etc. etc.

It was stunning. And when we said "oh, no, we got nothing" there was a lot of silence on their end. We both thought we were in the same boat. Turns out we live in the little dinghy attached to their yachts by a rope. My main takeaway is that we should NOT have been splitting checks all these years. I bought these folks drinks many times! And they were just sitting on piles of free cash the whole time. What a joke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, I feel sorry for the generations younger than me (I am young Gen X) because of debt, economy, etc. But I just can't believe this 40yo could be an innocent naif for so long. I was a very, very stupid smart person as a youth. I think it took me 2x as long to learn practical life stuff. My parents were not rich or "savvy," but my dad did know which fields I might actually make a living. He was not just thinking of me, but of himself (he probably wasn't going to let me go homeless, but would not be paying for any rents).

I went into the field of my choice anyway. It wasn't such a poor choice, and I have done well, but it also was not NYC, but here in DC. Yeah, I have insisted on living in a city. But the difference is, I made it. I had enough income by 30 and really felt secure by 35. Had I not, I would have readjusted in some way, by moving, changing careers, etc. I would not persist in world's most expensive city, getting ragged mad about other people's supposed trust funds.

The article author bugs me also by her assuming about these other people. Yeah, maybe they got it all handed over, but maybe not! I am close to some adults whose parents are rich, but the parents do NOT believe in helping. They get to enjoy the vacation house but no handouts. That's another conundrum, but you can't just assume! I mean, stop looking so hard at other people. If you are unhappy, it starts with you.

This is a very decent point. I grew up middle class but my parents came into quite a bit of money when I was in my 20s because an investment my dad made paid off (he is also hard working, but prior to that investment paying off, his hard work only got him so far). But that money didn't help me growing up and I self-financed both college (mostly on scholarship but I also worked three jobs) and law school (loans). They did not pay for my wedding, they did not contribute to our down payment. Since I had a child, they do sometimes give us money here and there -- I'll just randomly get a check for $500 or 1k. I don't ask for money and other than these very occasional gifts (maybe once every couple years) they don't offer. I'm not bitter about it because I never expected to rely on them when I was growing up.

But I know there are people who assume I must have a lot of financial support because my parents are very well off. We don't get non-financial support either, by the way. Like they aren't footing the bill for vacations or cars or anything either. We pay 100% of our expenses. I still owe about 30k on my law school loans and I'm in my 40s. I'm paying them much more quickly now because my income is higher, but my parents are millionaires. It's actually kind of comical.

In theory I, or my kid, might get money when they die. It's morbid to think about. I don't expect anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they left it to charity or something. I have several siblings and a bunch of nieces and nephews. I don't expect to ever live as comfortably as my parents currently do. It is what it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is definitely how I feel when I find out people have significant parental help in the form of house down payments (or full purchase price), tuition, completed 529’s, free trips to Hawaii, etc. It’s all very hush hush because they want it to seem like they aren’t getting that much help.

We’re not hiding it. Nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that some people don't really understand who the world works until they've already made some bad choices. I feel like the people who are like "make better choices" are ignoring that if you don't know any better, that's actually not possible.

I feel a certain empathy for NYC publishing lady even though I made much more practical choices. I went to law school instead of getting an MFA (even though I very much wanted to major in English and try to make a career of writing/editing, I just knew I couldn't afford it). But I didn't do as well in law school as I hoped, graduated into a recession, never got a Big Law job or even an almost-Big Law job, and then struggled with work/life balance when I had a kid. I'm a lot better off than the woman who wrote that piece, but I still have a ton of debt, live in a tiny condo and can't afford to move, and feel a little stuck in a big city but lack professional options ins lower COL areas. And yes, I look at my "peers" who I went to school with who turned out to have a lot of resources I didn't have, including just a better understand and familiarity with this world I now live in, and family members who also understand it and could provide not just financial assistance but real guidance.

I wouldn't say I have class rage. But I do grow pretty disillusioned with people. I have no tolerance for listening to rich people complain, for starters. Happy to hang out, but if you want to whine about stuff I'm going to bow out. Rich people problems all sound dumb and entitled to me. I also feel like a lot of people take too much for granted. Help from family, the convenience of being able to throw money at problems, a sense of belonging in their industries, mentors, etc. Often it seems like they don't even recognize what an asset that stuff is. They want to be treated as though they 100% earned every bit of their wealth, but obviously luck and superior circumstances played a role. I know people who graduated well below me in my class but now probably make 10x my salary. It's not because they are smarter or worked harder.

Life is not fair. Everyone knows that. I do think it would be better for us all if we acknowledged it more often. I get weary of hearing wealthy people who got a leg up talk about the fairness of the system. It's not naive, it's manipulative.

I was one of those who was a LMC “Larla” from a small town. I guess I just don’t get how people could not “know better?” None of this is a secret. Doctors and lawyers and MBAs make more $$ than art history majors. People who make good grades in law school get better jobs than those who don’t. Once you’re out, biglaw job or not, you’ve got to prove yourself in the real world, and that involves hard work.

Life isn’t always fair. But it isn’t always unfair, either. It seems as though you take no responsibility for your own situation. Is it really so obvious that only “luck and superior circumstances” played a role in everyone else’s success? I don’t see how can you be so sure it’s “not because they are smarter or worked harder?” It seems to me you’re looking at a few fringe cases of people who were born privileged and using those to excuse your own lack of success.

I grow disillusioned with people who look at others who have worked their tail off to get where they are, only to be told that they were just “lucky.”

When I was in college, it seemed to me like people in publishing made at least as much as bank tellers or accountants, probably as much as journalists but didn't need to travel as much and had more regular hours, probably as much as desk workers in insurance or other medium professional people who don't have a higher degree. Better than waitresses and fast food workers. Doctors and lawyers made more but also needed money to go to school for another 3 to 10 years which I wouldn't have been able to afford just out of college (and wasn't organized enough to arrange while I was still trying to do all my classes and get good grades etc. I saw people applying to law school but I didn't understand how they knew what that schedule was or were making it work with all the other academics going on around them.)

I think a big part of the problem is what we've been hearing millennials complain about for a long time: The middle class is bottoming out and the jobs that you used to get that paid a living wage and benefits (never mind a pension like my dad made even though he never made more than $45K/year at that job) often don't exist anymore. Look at all the movies made about the publishing industry, especially 20 years ago, which make it look glamorous and, at a minimum give off the impression that while you might not make much when you start, you will at least make a living wage and ultimately with smarts and hard work will rise up to a position of some power and a more livable salary. Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction wore nice clothes and had nice things and was a book editor. Sandra Bullock in The Proposal had a ton of money from her book editing job. Don't get me started on the Devil Wears Prada. Anyway, these jobs used to be jobs you could live on, even support a family on. That they're not anymore says more about our government over the last several decades than it does about the people who vaguely trusted the system to keep operating as it had in the past and lose that bet pretty badly.

OMG. You were basing your life decisions on what you saw in the movies? Newsflash — movies aren’t, and have never been, real life. Those jobs have never been well-paying. People in the movies live in fabulous NY apartments that they could never afford in real life. Ever seen a Doris Day movie from the 50’s where she’s a secretary and lives in a beautiful NY apartment? Not real. The fact that you have lived in the city for some period of time and haven’t figured this out explains a lot.

I grew up in a small town in the South, and I’ve always known this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that some people don't really understand who the world works until they've already made some bad choices. I feel like the people who are like "make better choices" are ignoring that if you don't know any better, that's actually not possible.

I feel a certain empathy for NYC publishing lady even though I made much more practical choices. I went to law school instead of getting an MFA (even though I very much wanted to major in English and try to make a career of writing/editing, I just knew I couldn't afford it). But I didn't do as well in law school as I hoped, graduated into a recession, never got a Big Law job or even an almost-Big Law job, and then struggled with work/life balance when I had a kid. I'm a lot better off than the woman who wrote that piece, but I still have a ton of debt, live in a tiny condo and can't afford to move, and feel a little stuck in a big city but lack professional options ins lower COL areas. And yes, I look at my "peers" who I went to school with who turned out to have a lot of resources I didn't have, including just a better understand and familiarity with this world I now live in, and family members who also understand it and could provide not just financial assistance but real guidance.

I wouldn't say I have class rage. But I do grow pretty disillusioned with people. I have no tolerance for listening to rich people complain, for starters. Happy to hang out, but if you want to whine about stuff I'm going to bow out. Rich people problems all sound dumb and entitled to me. I also feel like a lot of people take too much for granted. Help from family, the convenience of being able to throw money at problems, a sense of belonging in their industries, mentors, etc. Often it seems like they don't even recognize what an asset that stuff is. They want to be treated as though they 100% earned every bit of their wealth, but obviously luck and superior circumstances played a role. I know people who graduated well below me in my class but now probably make 10x my salary. It's not because they are smarter or worked harder.

Life is not fair. Everyone knows that. I do think it would be better for us all if we acknowledged it more often. I get weary of hearing wealthy people who got a leg up talk about the fairness of the system. It's not naive, it's manipulative.

I was one of those who was a LMC “Larla” from a small town. I guess I just don’t get how people could not “know better?” None of this is a secret. Doctors and lawyers and MBAs make more $$ than art history majors. People who make good grades in law school get better jobs than those who don’t. Once you’re out, biglaw job or not, you’ve got to prove yourself in the real world, and that involves hard work.

Life isn’t always fair. But it isn’t always unfair, either. It seems as though you take no responsibility for your own situation. Is it really so obvious that only “luck and superior circumstances” played a role in everyone else’s success? I don’t see how can you be so sure it’s “not because they are smarter or worked harder?” It seems to me you’re looking at a few fringe cases of people who were born privileged and using those to excuse your own lack of success.

I grow disillusioned with people who look at others who have worked their tail off to get where they are, only to be told that they were just “lucky.”

When I was in college, it seemed to me like people in publishing made at least as much as bank tellers or accountants, probably as much as journalists but didn't need to travel as much and had more regular hours, probably as much as desk workers in insurance or other medium professional people who don't have a higher degree. Better than waitresses and fast food workers. Doctors and lawyers made more but also needed money to go to school for another 3 to 10 years which I wouldn't have been able to afford just out of college (and wasn't organized enough to arrange while I was still trying to do all my classes and get good grades etc. I saw people applying to law school but I didn't understand how they knew what that schedule was or were making it work with all the other academics going on around them.)

I think a big part of the problem is what we've been hearing millennials complain about for a long time: The middle class is bottoming out and the jobs that you used to get that paid a living wage and benefits (never mind a pension like my dad made even though he never made more than $45K/year at that job) often don't exist anymore. Look at all the movies made about the publishing industry, especially 20 years ago, which make it look glamorous and, at a minimum give off the impression that while you might not make much when you start, you will at least make a living wage and ultimately with smarts and hard work will rise up to a position of some power and a more livable salary. Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction wore nice clothes and had nice things and was a book editor. Sandra Bullock in The Proposal had a ton of money from her book editing job. Don't get me started on the Devil Wears Prada. Anyway, these jobs used to be jobs you could live on, even support a family on. That they're not anymore says more about our government over the last several decades than it does about the people who vaguely trusted the system to keep operating as it had in the past and lose that bet pretty badly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that some people don't really understand who the world works until they've already made some bad choices. I feel like the people who are like "make better choices" are ignoring that if you don't know any better, that's actually not possible.

I feel a certain empathy for NYC publishing lady even though I made much more practical choices. I went to law school instead of getting an MFA (even though I very much wanted to major in English and try to make a career of writing/editing, I just knew I couldn't afford it). But I didn't do as well in law school as I hoped, graduated into a recession, never got a Big Law job or even an almost-Big Law job, and then struggled with work/life balance when I had a kid. I'm a lot better off than the woman who wrote that piece, but I still have a ton of debt, live in a tiny condo and can't afford to move, and feel a little stuck in a big city but lack professional options ins lower COL areas. And yes, I look at my "peers" who I went to school with who turned out to have a lot of resources I didn't have, including just a better understand and familiarity with this world I now live in, and family members who also understand it and could provide not just financial assistance but real guidance.

I wouldn't say I have class rage. But I do grow pretty disillusioned with people. I have no tolerance for listening to rich people complain, for starters. Happy to hang out, but if you want to whine about stuff I'm going to bow out. Rich people problems all sound dumb and entitled to me. I also feel like a lot of people take too much for granted. Help from family, the convenience of being able to throw money at problems, a sense of belonging in their industries, mentors, etc. Often it seems like they don't even recognize what an asset that stuff is. They want to be treated as though they 100% earned every bit of their wealth, but obviously luck and superior circumstances played a role. I know people who graduated well below me in my class but now probably make 10x my salary. It's not because they are smarter or worked harder.

Life is not fair. Everyone knows that. I do think it would be better for us all if we acknowledged it more often. I get weary of hearing wealthy people who got a leg up talk about the fairness of the system. It's not naive, it's manipulative.

I was one of those who was a LMC “Larla” from a small town. I guess I just don’t get how people could not “know better?” None of this is a secret. Doctors and lawyers and MBAs make more $$ than art history majors. People who make good grades in law school get better jobs than those who don’t. Once you’re out, biglaw job or not, you’ve got to prove yourself in the real world, and that involves hard work.

Life isn’t always fair. But it isn’t always unfair, either. It seems as though you take no responsibility for your own situation. Is it really so obvious that only “luck and superior circumstances” played a role in everyone else’s success? I don’t see how can you be so sure it’s “not because they are smarter or worked harder?” It seems to me you’re looking at a few fringe cases of people who were born privileged and using those to excuse your own lack of success.

I grow disillusioned with people who look at others who have worked their tail off to get where they are, only to be told that they were just “lucky.”

When I was in college, it seemed to me like people in publishing made at least as much as bank tellers or accountants, probably as much as journalists but didn't need to travel as much and had more regular hours, probably as much as desk workers in insurance or other medium professional people who don't have a higher degree. Better than waitresses and fast food workers. Doctors and lawyers made more but also needed money to go to school for another 3 to 10 years which I wouldn't have been able to afford just out of college (and wasn't organized enough to arrange while I was still trying to do all my classes and get good grades etc. I saw people applying to law school but I didn't understand how they knew what that schedule was or were making it work with all the other academics going on around them.)

I think a big part of the problem is what we've been hearing millennials complain about for a long time: The middle class is bottoming out and the jobs that you used to get that paid a living wage and benefits (never mind a pension like my dad made even though he never made more than $45K/year at that job) often don't exist anymore. Look at all the movies made about the publishing industry, especially 20 years ago, which make it look glamorous and, at a minimum give off the impression that while you might not make much when you start, you will at least make a living wage and ultimately with smarts and hard work will rise up to a position of some power and a more livable salary. Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction wore nice clothes and had nice things and was a book editor. Sandra Bullock in The Proposal had a ton of money from her book editing job. Don't get me started on the Devil Wears Prada. Anyway, these jobs used to be jobs you could live on, even support a family on. That they're not anymore says more about our government over the last several decades than it does about the people who vaguely trusted the system to keep operating as it had in the past and lose that bet pretty badly.

Anonymous wrote:i don’t think people always “try” to hide their privilege. i think they often don’t even see it. they really genuinely think everyone else (you) are more or less in the same boat as them. And they most likely do not even see how lucky they are to have been given so much by their parents, etc. They take it for granted.

Anonymous wrote:What a dummy. Sorry, going to have to consider the practical ramifications of life choices. Ny is not affordable (or pleasant imho) and don’t go into a low paying field unless you’re cool with…low pay. The whining.

Anonymous wrote:So who told you that you would need to subsidize your own career for 10 years before you might make a livable salary on your own? Because nobody told me that, or this lady that. I just sort of gave up on my dream on my own because I was a first generation student who went to an Ivy and I wanted some money to show for it. But I don't consider that a big victory for me. And again, nobody told me, I just took a hard look at my salary after a while and I negged out of there.

Anonymous wrote:In general, I feel sorry for the generations younger than me (I am young Gen X) because of debt, economy, etc. But I just can't believe this 40yo could be an innocent naif for so long. I was a very, very stupid smart person as a youth. I think it took me 2x as long to learn practical life stuff. My parents were not rich or "savvy," but my dad did know which fields I might actually make a living. He was not just thinking of me, but of himself (he probably wasn't going to let me go homeless, but would not be paying for any rents).

I went into the field of my choice anyway. It wasn't such a poor choice, and I have done well, but it also was not NYC, but here in DC. Yeah, I have insisted on living in a city. But the difference is, I made it. I had enough income by 30 and really felt secure by 35. Had I not, I would have readjusted in some way, by moving, changing careers, etc. I would not persist in world's most expensive city, getting ragged mad about other people's supposed trust funds.

The article author bugs me also by her assuming about these other people. Yeah, maybe they got it all handed over, but maybe not! I am close to some adults whose parents are rich, but the parents do NOT believe in helping. They get to enjoy the vacation house but no handouts. That's another conundrum, but you can't just assume! I mean, stop looking so hard at other people. If you are unhappy, it starts with you.

Anonymous wrote:So who told you that you would need to subsidize your own career for 10 years before you might make a livable salary on your own? Because nobody told me that, or this lady that. I just sort of gave up on my dream on my own because I was a first generation student who went to an Ivy and I wanted some money to show for it. But I don't consider that a big victory for me. And again, nobody told me, I just took a hard look at my salary after a while and I negged out of there.