Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 17:11     Subject: wife keeps her name
No one wants the woman to keep their name including the children
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 17:08     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Am one of them. Think nothing of it. Wonder a little about the women who change their names, though.


I hope you don’t pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.


I'm not the PP but I also kept my name. Why wouldn't I? It's my name. It's one thing if you really love the name Smith or whatever and always wanted your name to be that. In which case just change it whenever you want.

But you can count me as another person who wonders about the women who are lacking an identity so much that they change their name to their husband's name after the man agrees to marry her and hence 'allows' them to do so.


My "maiden" name was passed down from some slaveholder so what difference does it make to you or anyone else if I toss off that BS name for another one? Stay in your business and I'll stay in mine. My identity is fine.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 17:03     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Most men take the guy for a cuck if wife keeps name. Sorry, I just don't respect these men.


Man here who disagrees. The cuck is the one who takes his wife’s name or agrees to them both changing their names to something made up. The guy whose wife keeps her name, outside of professional reasons to do so, is just whipped.


I find this so neanderthal. Because it shows he's not in control of her choices?


It shows that he married her despite the fact that her keeping her name is somewhat embarrassing and emasculating to him.

Have any men in this thread said that they like that their wives kept their last names? No, I don't think so. We have had posts from men who say they wish their wives changed their names and posts from women who claim their husbands don't care. The reality is they may care and be disappointed, but knew that they knew it wasn't worth fighting over so they don't make a fuss about it.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 11:12     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I understand perfectly.
Some traditions, such as those cherished by women, are valid.
Some traditions, such as those cherished by men, are misogynistic and antiquated.

Many women (not any one specific woman but lots and lots of them, maybe even most) actually get a little embarrassed in front of other women if their man doesn't open the car door for them, or get down on one knee to propose, or buy a sufficiently large engagement ring. When they get together, women want to be able to tell other women about the romantic way their man proposed, even if the man makes himself look silly doing it for her. They love it when men publicly demonstrate love and commitment to them. It shows just how devoted they are and how strongly they are invested in the relationship. If a man won't buy a sufficiently large rock, he must not really love her or think she's worth it. Again, not talking about any one woman specifically, just lots and lots of other women out there.

When men embrace the tradition of wives adopting their name as a public show of unity and commitment to the relationship, it's sexist.



This post is right on the money.


Except that it isn't. The kind of women who expect the sexist things mentioned above don't keep their names. They think that all these things are "traditional" and stick with traditional things. They accept being second-class citizens who have to be "protected" and blah blah blah.

Women who keep their names most likely don't give a shit about opening doors or engagement rings, because they think traditional, sexist roles are BS.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 11:12     Subject: wife keeps her name


It's very simple, really. Leadership is a service and a responsibility. It does not imply one person is better than the other. Does being a parent imply the parent is better than the child? And no, I am in no way implying that a husband is the parent of a wife, which would be a very large power imbalance.

Functioning systems all have some measure of hierarchy. Grow up, really. Or go live in a commune where everyone has exactly the same role and responsibilities and see how that works out for you.


DP. Leadership implies that one person is the leader and one is the follower. It's an odd dynamic to have in a marriage. Now, it's true that in most marriages, one person is the "leader" in certain areas of daily life, but not in ALL things. One person might take the lead on finances, the other might take the lead on education for the kids, etc. But it sounds like your DH is the leader in every respect when it comes to your marriage and family. That means you are the follower. It's a very old-fashioned way to approach marriage. Why can't you ALSO be a leader in some respects? It's not mutually exclusive. I also wonder what kind of example you are setting for your children. How can you ever expect them, especially any daughters you may have, to become leaders when you are deferring that role to your DH?
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 11:07     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:I understand why this thread is upsetting to a lot of people

Men who wish there wives had their last names

Women who wish they could keep their last names without any consequences

People with a political/cultural agenda to move away from the norm of women taking husbands names

Um, I kept my last name, and the only "consequence" is that I didn't have to change my name. There has been literally no downside to not taking my husband's last name.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 11:01     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are women expected to do it a show of commitment to the marriage and family, and love for their husbands? I don't know. Why are men expected to buy a ridiculously expensive engagement ring? I guess some traditions are just worth keeping, am I right, ladies?


Checkmate

Except that not all of us even want a ridiculously expensive engagement ring. I certainly didn't. What a dumb thing to blow money on.


The cost of the engagement ring is not relevant. The point is, an engagement ring, even a $500 ring, is an antiquated tradition that most women still insist on.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:57     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why are women expected to do it a show of commitment to the marriage and family, and love for their husbands? I don't know. Why are men expected to buy a ridiculously expensive engagement ring? I guess some traditions are just worth keeping, am I right, ladies?


Checkmate

Except that not all of us even want a ridiculously expensive engagement ring. I certainly didn't. What a dumb thing to blow money on.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:56     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I looked forward to taking my husband’s last name. I like the idea of a man being head of the household even though I am educated and have a nice career. My feeling is why throw the baby with the bath water? I enjoy having a relationship where I am both self-sufficient and protected. I also find it sexier. Androgyny is not sexy.


I think the issue is that what you consider the baby is what a lot of us consider the bathwater.

And it's fine to live a life where women are second to men. But just don't call it anything else.


I am family oriented, not self oriented. I am fully gratified and my kids are better off.


Really admirable that you stick to your family oriented beliefs even when judgemental women try to shame you for it. Keep it up PP


A last name has nothing to do with being family oriented.


I am actually the PP who said I was family oriented, and I agree. It is a fairly trivial thing. But apparently the poster who responded to me suggested that the idea of a man being the head of the household in this subtle way indicated that women are second to men. That cracked me up. To me, it is a responsibility more than a privilege to be the head of a household. And it doesn't imply that the wife doesn't work, is subservient, or even secondary. It is like the CEO and the COO being jointly responsible to shareholders in different capacities.


I'm a different poster in this thread, not PP, and I did change my name but I don't think they're wrong about the HOH thing. That is the language of misogyny. Because you can say its like the a CEO and a COO (although the CEO gets more prestige and deference) but what is your title? Co HOH?

My husband and I are a unit, there is no head of household. Even if I were a SAHM I wouldn't call my husband the HOH. He is the breadwinner in that scenario, but the term head of household implies some extra authority. The idea that they get to make the final call on things. And I'm not a fan of that, because that is not an egalitarian relationship. And relationships that aren't egalitarian are susceptible to abuse.


My husband and I are a unit too, but I disagree with your ideas about the HOH distinction. To me, it confers not only some extra authority but extra responsibility that I expect my husband to feel for our family. He has a more prestigious career than I do, and I'm fine with that. His prestige benefits me and my kids, and even though there are some perks for him, he is oriented around us and not only himself. Part of his willingness to put us first is due to the perks. That is how life works and how human nature works. I am a competent, educated, and responsible person with a good career, but I am not capable of having a "big" job and focusing on my kids at the same time. Frankly my husband is more capable than me when it comes to sheer ability. I am more than happy to give him HOH status in exchange for his willingness to happily and lovingly (no abuse) confer his status and resources on me and my kids. I am not worried about being taken advantage of because I could fend for myself if the sh*t hit the fan, and I do agree any woman should always be prepared for that.



I bolded all the parts of your post that speak to the fact that in your household your husband is seen as superior to you in one way or another. You guys are not on a equal playing field, which you seem to fully understand and embrace.

I am not going to criticize an individual woman for choosing a relationship like this if it makes them happy and they are going into it with their eyes wide open. But this is not the attitude that women should have when they are looking for a mate. Because this attitude can be very very easily turned into an abusive situation.

I believe personally that even if an overweight maid who got Cs in school (let's call her Mary) is married to a big law guy who looks like Ken (let's call him Ken), they should be equals in the relationship. Mary shouldn't have to walk around her whole life feeling like she lives with someone who's better than her. They are human beings, and so they are equal, nothing about Ken being more accomplished or better looking or perhaps more intelligent takes away from the fact that Mary is a human being who deserves exactly as much dignity and respect as Ken does. Mary can appreciate Ken for bringing a lot of money into their household, and love that he is ambitious. She can admire that he is better at being a lawyer then she could ever be. But Mary should also realize that perhaps she is a little kinder then Ken could ever be, that she is better at Sudoku puzzles or cooking or parenting or gardening and certainly better at cleaning than he will ever be.

What is your husband better at than you due to sheer ability? I think it is troubling that that sentence doesn't actually have a noun. You just say he's better than you. Not what it is that he is better at.

Your household is run with your husband being labeled superior. You're cool with that and he doesn't abuse you, so I'm not going to say there is anything wrong with your life. But you need to realize that it is a dangerous world view to have. There are a lot of bad men in the world.


A) Stop telling women what attitude they should or should not have
B) My husband is not superior to me, because we both assign a tremendous amount of value to my personal qualities. Lacking in self esteem I am not, and I would have no problem leaving my marriage if my husband stopped behaving appropriately, which he full well knows.


This is sick.. I truly hope you don’t have daughters to follow your example


I honestly don't understand the thinking that you can have a follower/leader dynamic AND not have one person considered better than the other. This thinking that the man is naturally the HOH and the woman follows his instructions may work for some people and i WANT to say that hey, you do you if that's what you like. But I don't get how it's not an inequal relationship. Sincerely interested if someone can explain.


It's very simple, really. Leadership is a service and a responsibility. It does not imply one person is better than the other. Does being a parent imply the parent is better than the child? And no, I am in no way implying that a husband is the parent of a wife, which would be a very large power imbalance.

Functioning systems all have some measure of hierarchy. Grow up, really. Or go live in a commune where everyone has exactly the same role and responsibilities and see how that works out for you.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:53     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:I'd probably assume she was an established professional when they got married.

One exception that I remember was when the woman had a family name that was very well known and had incredible family wealth. She didn't work outside the home.


I don't get this argument- that people don't want to change their name because they were established professionals. I mean, I get it, but it seems trivial in the scheme of things.

What about the fact that you are an established human being whose identity doesn't have to change at it's core to your husband's name when you get married?
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:47     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:Why are women expected to do it a show of commitment to the marriage and family, and love for their husbands? I don't know. Why are men expected to buy a ridiculously expensive engagement ring? I guess some traditions are just worth keeping, am I right, ladies?


Checkmate
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:30     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My first impression is -- awesome, that makes sense! Great to see another couple going this route.

We have different last names and are in the same professional field and it's been super convenient for it not to be obvious theat we are married (ie with recruiters). Who knew it would be so convenient.

Happily married. OTOH, my best friend changed her name and got divorced, major pain and she regrets changing.


I support every woman doing whatever she wants but this argument always struck me as bizarre. Divorce is a terrible messy painful experience for all involved. It involves boatloads of paperwork and heartbreak. How is the name issue what people take away from it?


Because it adds to the paperwork and heartache at an already difficult time. How is that hard to see? I mean it's not everything, but it's something. Not sure what is meant by "what people take away from it."


Yes, that's true. But at the same time people who say "it's hard to change your name if you get divorced" are giving the idiots more reason to argue that the reason women aren't changing their names is because they aren't fully in the marriage.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:27     Subject: wife keeps her name
PP who has been married 17 years and has three children (with dad's last name, although if I did it again they'd have mine, because it's a nicer name and I'm the last to have it).

Can someone explain to me why it's NOT an arbitrary thing to change your name to your husband's name? SO, so random to me.

The only explanation I get is the "everyone needs to have the same name in the family" (I don't agree with it, that seems arbitrary, too, but at least there's a rationale there).
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:25     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:I say way to stick it to the patriarchy...by keeping the name you got from your father. That will show everyone!


I am sure there are some women who don't change their names to stick it to the patriarchy and who were born with names from their father.
Anonymous
Post 03/22/2018 10:21     Subject: wife keeps her name
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Most men take the guy for a cuck if wife keeps name. Sorry, I just don't respect these men.


Man here who disagrees. The cuck is the one who takes his wife’s name or agrees to them both changing their names to something made up. The guy whose wife keeps her name, outside of professional reasons to do so, is just whipped.


I find this so neanderthal. Because it shows he's not in control of her choices?