I haven't read all the replies but this is a great sociology book that partly gets at what you're asking - Unequal Childhoods by Annette Lareau (Class, Race, and Family Life)
https://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Childhoods-Family-Update-Decade/dp/0520271424/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to this thread. I grew up the same way, OP, and now I'm probably in the top 5%, not top 1%. This is what I do. Probably not perfect, but my kid does OK:

Swimming because it's a safety issue, for sure.
Reading. Good movies. Good documentaries on TV.
Theater.
Exposure to a variety of sports so that they can develop life-long fitness hobbies.
At least one instrument.
Foreign language.
Travel as much as you can.
Encourage curiosity and the pursuit of their interests.

Daily things like set wake-up times, set bed times, set dinner times, set homework times. Sounds corny, but those things did NOT exist in our household growing up. Too much chaos.

Model giving or working for charity. As a friend of mine just said, "don't look around at neighbors to make sure we have more, look around for those who don't have enough." (and help them)

Table manners, thank you notes, etc.

Grew up decidedly UMC, and we are also decidedly UMC.

This is by far the best, most useful post of the thread (and I even posted upthread).

I agree. It has all the essential elements.

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to this thread. I grew up the same way, OP, and now I'm probably in the top 5%, not top 1%. This is what I do. Probably not perfect, but my kid does OK:

Swimming because it's a safety issue, for sure.
Reading. Good movies. Good documentaries on TV.
Theater.
Exposure to a variety of sports so that they can develop life-long fitness hobbies.
At least one instrument.
Foreign language.
Travel as much as you can.
Encourage curiosity and the pursuit of their interests.

Daily things like set wake-up times, set bed times, set dinner times, set homework times. Sounds corny, but those things did NOT exist in our household growing up. Too much chaos.

Model giving or working for charity. As a friend of mine just said, "don't look around at neighbors to make sure we have more, look around for those who don't have enough." (and help them)

Table manners, thank you notes, etc.

Grew up decidedly UMC, and we are also decidedly UMC.

This is by far the best, most useful post of the thread (and I even posted upthread).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I don't know whether you're still following this thread, but I wanted to tell you about my miraculous transformation. You see, before reading this thread I was solidly middle class, but I've made the jump to UMC now! What changed my life? Butter. I now butter my bread in a UMC way. Truly magical. I have watched my bank account gain weight after every meal (or at lest those that include buttered bread). Thank you, DCUM, for the sage advice!

That is amazing PP. I am on the wait list for Adult Remedial Cotillion and have high hopes for similar added value due to my new enhanced level of refinement.

Both of you need remedial lessons on how to be kind. When you are UMC, you will be able to afford some. You won't have to snark and compete all the time then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. Grew up UMC and we talked about value. Even if you can afford to buy the $500 sneakers they may not be "a good value" (compared to the very similar $100 sneakers) so we would say they cost too much. We are trying to teach our kids the same thing - spend your money wisely. No need to throw it away. In fact, I'm pretty sure our kids think we are poor based on how we talk about spending money.

I'm surprised that this completely correct comment is so late in this thread. As I always say, rich people don't get or stay rich by making crappy decisions. The wealthiest people I know are very conservative with their spending.

I agree with that comment. I talk to my kids about that all the time. Of course we can afford to go to Starbucks all the time, but it's a waste of money to do so. Why buy a water from a vending machine when it's next to a water fountain?

Our HHI is well over $500k/yr, so it's definitely a "value" thing.

Another $500K HHI here and I agree. My secretary goes to Starbucks several times weekly, and drives a more expensive car! She makes 25% of what I do, but she has no hope of retiring on anything other than SS, so I think she figures, why not enjoy herself now instead of delaying gratification?

I'm late to this thread. I grew up the same way, OP, and now I'm probably in the top 5%, not top 1%. This is what I do. Probably not perfect, but my kid does OK:

Swimming because it's a safety issue, for sure.
Reading. Good movies. Good documentaries on TV.
Theater.
Exposure to a variety of sports so that they can develop life-long fitness hobbies.
At least one instrument.
Foreign language.
Travel as much as you can.
Encourage curiosity and the pursuit of their interests.

Daily things like set wake-up times, set bed times, set dinner times, set homework times. Sounds corny, but those things did NOT exist in our household growing up. Too much chaos.

Model giving or working for charity. As a friend of mine just said, "don't look around at neighbors to make sure we have more, look around for those who don't have enough." (and help them)

Table manners, thank you notes, etc.

FWIW, I was raised upper middle class. I can't swim. I have a fear of water. My parents tried. I went to camps my whole childhood with swimming pools. Hell, we had a pool in our backyard. I mentally and intellectually know how to swim. I could teach YOU to swim. But I can't swim. If you threw me off a boat in the middle of the lake I could make my way to land. It wouldn't be pretty. But I have drive, and I haven't forgotten what I was told in all those swim lessons.

I go on sailboats, paddle boats, row boats, etc. My fear of water is only of actually being submerged IN water. Being unable to swim hasn't really held me back.

Quality of life versus quality of class....

If I were to make any investment, invest in quality family-based experiences with your children to build resilience first. Class (based on finances) can come and go at the drop of a hat nowadays...

We all know many a kid who grew up affluent but suffer with drug use and therapy sessions. None of the activities you suggest will guarantee that your child will not be exposed to children who have been emotionally neglected.

Try your best not to miss out on your child's development by over-scheduling him/her.

Deciding to focus your parenting plan on class-based "fit-in" rituals and routines will drive you crazy! As soon as you think you've figured it out, there will be something else you've perceived that you've missed.

Some parents neglect to invest in quality family bonding experiences. These experiences contribute to your child's resilience in later years with peer pressure and unexpected circumstances (illness, death, trauma) that they will eventually encounter moreso than a ship-away camp.

Some of the activities you speak of are quality activities, but they are merely a part of the formula to encourage success; they are not the determinant of it. Do not dismiss the value of passing on the $1000 per week summer camp for a service-based learning family vacation or guided camping trip.

Spend time listening to your child, learning about what they want to do and who they are. Encourage development in these areas first, while also exposing them to other age-appropriate experiences.

Their personality, values, ability to effectively communicate , and inner resilience will attract who they become, far beyond any class-based formula for success.

I hope this helps

Best to you

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're rich, OP. Maybe you don't come from rich, maybe you don't feel rich, but you ARE rich.

Teach your kid to eat at the table, elbows off, chew with mouth closed, don't talk with food in mouth. Butter only the bread you're about to chew. Don't butter the whole piece of bread and don't put a pat of butter on your plate to butter from. Napkin in lap. Please and thank you to waitstaff. Don't eat until everyone at the table has been served. Teach to eat neatly. Don't stuff your mouth full. Be willing to try new foods. Know how to say "I hate that crap!" nicely.

Teach your kid manners. Get up for old, handicapped, pregnant people. Hold the door for everyone with a smile. People who are poor are always out for themselves and are always desperate to get everything they can free. Only take one sample.

My DD has never taken swim lessons. She figured it out herself. But yes, know how to play sports. Doesn't have to win awards, but you don't want to be picked last for a team because you suck.

Serious question. If you're not supposed to butter the whole piece of bread and you're not supposed to put a pat of butter on your bread plate, what do you do with it? Do you just not use butter? Ask someone to pass the butter every time you want a bite of bread? The habit I picked up from client lunches at my first "professional" job was to take a pat of butter, and then eat the bread by breaking off a bite-sized piece, butter that bite individually, and then put the whole thing in my mouth. I don't butter the whole thing at once, and I never take a bite out of my bread and then put the rest back down. Is that wrong?

Lol, there is a butter plate on the table. You use your knife to portion off some butter, then butter the piece of bread you're about to bite. Put down your knife, bite your bread, put down the rest of the bread, chew and swallow. Then when you're ready for another bite of bread, butter than bit of bread. You can bite your bread and put the rest down on the bread plate. That's fine.

This is not right.
If there is a butter knife with the dish, use it to put butter on your bread plate of the side of your dinner plate if there is no bread plate. Then you break off a piece of the bread, put the larger whole piece of bread back on the plate, use your own knife to get butter from your plate and butter that tiny portion (hold it with thumb and forefinger). Put down your knife (once it's used on the plate, NEVER the table) Eat the bite of bread. pull off another bite and butter from the glob of butter in your plate. When you're out of butter, use the butter knife to put more butter on your plate. Repeat.

Yes! Thank you.

Agreed!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't salt or pepper your food until you've tasted it.

Duuude, how is this related to class?

Manners thing. You are supposed to assume the cook got the seasoning right, not that he or she got it wrong.

Listen here, y'all needa give your children space and make sure they've got manners.

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the butter nuts. I grew up UMC, went Ivy undergrad & grad, and use a knife in my left hand. It's never held me back.

Ignore the butter nuts. Butter is nasty and low class anyway. We dip our bread in olive oi

Anonymous wrote:Don't salt or pepper your food until you've tasted it.

Duuude, how is this related to class?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree. Grew up UMC and we talked about value. Even if you can afford to buy the $500 sneakers they may not be "a good value" (compared to the very similar $100 sneakers) so we would say they cost too much. We are trying to teach our kids the same thing - spend your money wisely. No need to throw it away. In fact, I'm pretty sure our kids think we are poor based on how we talk about spending money.

I'm surprised that this completely correct comment is so late in this thread. As I always say, rich people don't get or stay rich by making crappy decisions. The wealthiest people I know are very conservative with their spending.

I agree with that comment. I talk to my kids about that all the time. Of course we can afford to go to Starbucks all the time, but it's a waste of money to do so. Why buy a water from a vending machine when it's next to a water fountain?

Our HHI is well over $500k/yr, so it's definitely a "value" thing.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DCUM can be awful, but I love it because it can also be really awesome. Thanks everyone for their replies.

I actually posted an off shoot to this post over on the *Elementary Aged* forum. Here it is....Seriously, where else can I vent and get such good advice? So glad to have this resources. Thank you all.
*****
I was at a PTA coffee meet today, and I was literally the only one with afternoons free. Everyone has booked their kids Mon-Fri. Four of the moms had kids so proficient at dance/gymnastics/whatever, that they outgrew local lessons and are driving their kids to classes two or three towns over.

On the other hand, my girl is only doing Girl Scouts. Nothing else.

I mentioned the weekend houses thing because, to be honest, I can't stand most of these women. Sometimes, I think they're busy to be busy. Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder from growing up poor. The resources they pour into their kids astonish me, and makes me feel a little resentful, knowing how the other 99% live. So, that's my bias...and, intellectally, I know that there's a possibility that these women are making great choices for their kids. I want the same opportunities for my children--to be well rounded, have the ability to develop a passion early on, be able to fit into different social classes (unlike their well-educated, but working-class minded mom).

So what do I need to start now? What can wait? These seem to be popular.

Tennis
Swim
Horseback riding
Gymnastics
Ballet
Theater
Soccer

I would take gymnastics off this list (not a skill she'll ever use beyond the actual gymnastics team) and replace with skiing. Classmates and friends will invite her to go skiing, and she should know how. If my kids' friends don't know how to ski, we don't take them with us--nobody wants to spend their holiday teaching them. It sounds mean, but it's true. It would also not be fun for her.