Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 18:32     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: The grocery list is on the fridge, do not call me from the store asking what we need. If you forgot the list, guess, just like you would if you were single.


Quite the partnership you have there.


I'm sorry, do you enjoy being interrupted 3+ times in an hour because, "I can't remember which brand of dressing I like?"

I didn't think so.

And yes, we have an excellent partnership of mutual respect, understanding, and lots of love and laughter. God that sounds cheesy. But honestly we enjoy every minute together, laugh constantly, and look out for each other. And when he needs something simple (like help remembering what we needed from the pet store), it's no big deal because 9.9 times out of 10 he can handle it himself; just like I can. We are competent, independent people who love being together. It was a lot less fun when I felt like I had to be mom/housemother and keep track of everything myself.

Which is what a lot (but not all) of this thread sounds like. I accept that some people will need to find ways to survive unhealthy marriages for various reasons, but how can there be this many women so eager for advice on how to be taken advantage of?!
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 17:35     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: The grocery list is on the fridge, do not call me from the store asking what we need. If you forgot the list, guess, just like you would if you were single.


Quite the partnership you have there.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 17:27     Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
If you have the kind of marriage where "laying down the law" results in positive changes, then this thread is not for you. It's for the people like pp who, after a million conversations, still has a spouse who comes home and thinks he's entitled to have the night to himself after a hard day at work. I'm in that group, and there comes a time when you have to accept that what you're doing has not worked and will not work, no matter how many times you repeat it. If you do not want a divorce because of your kids, then you have to take a step back and figure out what works for you. The upside is that a lot of times it's the stepping back that makes lazy husbands step forward a bit.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 16:08     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.


I just found this thread and got to your post at the top of Page 8 and had to agree!

My marriage is only four years old, but this is what I did.

I should not have to tell you when the garbage is full and needs to be taken out.
You should pick up toilet paper when you notice we are low without being told.
The grocery list is on the fridge, do not call me from the store asking what we need. If you forgot the list, guess, just like you would if you were single.

Sometimes I had to lay down the law and sometimes I could raise and resolve the issue jokingly, but no way in hell was I just going to acquiesce to DH deciding he could abdicate all adult responsibilities once he had me.

Our marriage has been strong from the beginning, I suppose since we lived together and fought those battles prior to marriage, and there is no need to be apathetic or detached because we don't criticize each other. We are equal and loving partners in making our lives into what we want.


I would be inclined to cut a partner some more slack than that (and expect the same in return), but other than that, you and the other PP are my new heroes. This is what I aspire to in my next relationship. It's about knowing you have other good options (including being single), and the other person knowing that you know you have other good options and are willing to exercise them, and not daring to call your bluff.

As negotiation expert William Ury writes: "The purpose of negotiation is to explore whether you can satisfy your interests better through an agreement than you could by pursuing your Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement (BATNA). Your BATNA is your walkaway alternative. It's your best course of action for satisfying your interests without the other's agrement. ... Your power depends ... on how good your BATNA is. If you have a viable alternative, then you have power in the negotiation."
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 15:20     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.


I just found this thread and got to your post at the top of Page 8 and had to agree!

My marriage is only four years old, but this is what I did.

I should not have to tell you when the garbage is full and needs to be taken out.
You should pick up toilet paper when you notice we are low without being told.
The grocery list is on the fridge, do not call me from the store asking what we need. If you forgot the list, guess, just like you would if you were single.

Sometimes I had to lay down the law and sometimes I could raise and resolve the issue jokingly, but no way in hell was I just going to acquiesce to DH deciding he could abdicate all adult responsibilities once he had me.

Our marriage has been strong from the beginning, I suppose since we lived together and fought those battles prior to marriage, and there is no need to be apathetic or detached because we don't criticize each other. We are equal and loving partners in making our lives into what we want.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 10:04     Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:NP here. Married 20+ years, I've detached for a few years now and it has definitely helped, as OP and PPs have noted.

I have a question for this group. My husband is great around the house, with meals, kids, etc. but his issue is that he has a hard time with his temper. The other day, we were talking about an activity I wanted to do. Without going into detail, it would have involved me going over to a stranger's house. I was fine with it (the stranger was someone I had checked out and was a legit guy) but I broached the subject with him to see if he was comfortable. We were two or three sentences into the discussion, and out of the blue he said "Do whatever the fuck you want." Totally inappropriate to jump to DEFCON 5 in my book. Had he said "Hey, I'm just not comfortable with you doing that. Can you find another way to do it?" I would've of course said "yeah, I hear you. Let me rethink this."

This is typical of him - he goes from nice/reasonable to upset/nasty in a flash. He does this maybe 2-3 times a year. Clearly, this is his issue, not mine. But two days later, I'm feeling hurt and around the house we are being polite but barely speaking. He is not an apologizer, so I do not expect an apology. Also, I know that if I try to sit down and discuss this with him, he will drag out all my past "transgressions" (in other post-argument discussions past, one such transgression was that I went out to dinner with a group of moms from my son's sports team the week before I went on a vacation. So in my view at least, his thinking is a little bizarre...).

Anyway, I am wondering how you fellow detachers would handle this. I typically eventually act like nothing's wrong and move on. Again, it's his issue, not mine. Thanks.


I don't ever tell my husband what he is doing wrong. I ask him to do it another way.

Since I have this exact same issue I will tell you what I do (although my husband doesn't curse, the rest of it fits him). I say " I would prefer if you would say 'I'm uncomfortable with that idea could you find another way to do it'" and then I'd let it go. I've said my piece, I can't make him be perfect for me but I won't allow that kind of nastiness to go without being addressed.

Hope that helps.
Anonymous
Post 10/01/2016 08:42     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:This is my favorite thread ever on DCUM. I am not alone! I came to this same conclusion/plan on my own -- but find peace and validation that this is the reality for others too! Live and let live.


Ditto. I'm not alone!
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 23:01     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:I didn't get through all 6 pages yet, but I am really intrigued by this thread! I think it is rooted in something really solid - self-sufficiency.

For better or worse, at the end of the day we only truly do have ourselves. Many of us have to learn that lesson before partnering up when we try to get over less than perfect childhoods (I know I did).

This general stance towards marriage is also discussed in the book Passionate Marriage, if anyone is interested. Excellent book about how intimacy combined with self-sufficiency makes for optimal married sex.


I think this is right. I've always been very self-sufficient. What people are describing in this thread....well, all of my romantic relationships have had shades of this. My marriage has always been this way. It was problematic in the early years of marriage, because my DH likes to be relied upon and wanted to be the white knight, so to speak. But through counseling, we came to a better understanding of each other. I leaned on him a little more and he came to see my self-sufficiency as evidence of how much I *wanted* to be with him--better, really, than needing someone. I could easily get along without DH. I choose to stay.

(Interestingly, when our kids were young, I felt like I needed DH very much, like I had finally met something I couldn't tackle on my own. And this was the time in our marriage when we fought the most, when I was most unhappy. I felt trapped. Then the kids got older, I got a handle on things, and we went back to our regular, pleasant relationship.)

I think DH and I have a reasonably happy, successful marriage. We enjoy each other's company, we do things together, we love our kids. But we both mostly do what we want. We have a decent sex life, although that's gotten to be more difficult now that I am approaching menopause. I'm just not as interested as I used to be. Sex might be the one thing that I regularly engage in just to make him happy. (Once we get started, I enjoy myself, so it's really not that big a sacrifice.) We've been married 25 years.

I actually had a happy, stable childhood, and I'm very close to my parents. I have plenty of good friends. I adore my kids. So it sounds kind of cold I guess, but I am actually a very warm, affectionate person. I'm not needy in my relationships with anyone though.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 21:43     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
This is my favorite thread ever on DCUM. I am not alone! I came to this same conclusion/plan on my own -- but find peace and validation that this is the reality for others too! Live and let live.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 19:50     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.



It works for some marriages and it absolutely is a choice that some good wives and mothers make. If it keeps the marriage together, and neither spouse is unhappy, it's not a wrong choice. Some people cheat to save their marriages.


Yeah, if everyone is fully disclosing infidelity to their spouse.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 19:48     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?


I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.


He SHOULD care about that stuff. He would if you were truly 50/50 partners. You are lowering your standards and settling for something second rate. I don't know why you would do that let alone advise someone else to. Bad idea.


+ 1

New Poster here. I agree. If it matters to you, it should matter to him. It's really that simple. The fact that it doesn't shows disrespect to you. If he truly cared about you, he wouldn't want you to run yourself ragged doing all this work for the family and house, he would *want* to help you in order to ease your burden. I really do not understand this thread. I'm getting the sense that there are a lot more "bad" marriages out there than I thought.


I think this is what it comes down to, ultimately. The women interjecting in here with their "I don't get it" or "I wouldn't put up with that" comments are not married to lazy, self involved jerks. So they really *don't* get it. They don't need to. They have husbands who either do all this stuff on their own without having to be asked or do it as soon as they are asked, no problem. If that is you, just be glad you don't get it. You're lucky you don't.


It's not "luck" not to marry or stay with a completely selfish man-baby. That is a CHOICE.


No, it is luck that some men don't turn into lazy, selfish assholes after getting married and/or having kids. Most of us don'y know how we are going to change.

The choice is whether or not to find a way to deal with the situation we got ourselves into or to get a divorce and put ourselves, kids, livong situation amd finances through hell. If this line of thinking does not lead to peace and stability for my family, then we will get a divorce.


Yes, exactly. That's the "or stay with" part. It's not about luck, it is about choice.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 17:32     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yup, I'm learning this too. I take the kids on vacation, go on girls trips and rarely call him. It really seems to help.


Yes to all this, plus extramarital sex. Unlike most men, my husband doesn't like frequent sex or much variety, so having someone else to explore that side with took a lot of pressure off of him.


OK, we're not biting on this. We're not going to accept "have an affair" as good advice to preserve a marriage and keep it healthy. Do you what you want, but you don't get to act like cheating on your spouse is something a good wife and mother does.


It's consistent with the theme of this thread, which is recognize that your partner doesn't exist to make you happy and that you have to make yourself happy. I don't want to be married to anyone else but I refuse to live without good sex. I'm like a stereotypical guy - four or five days without sex and I get very grumpy.


And it wouldn't be OK for a guy, either. You took vows. Definitely legally binding vows, and most likely, religious vows as well. If DH doesn't make "enough" money, it is OK to go steal? Because both theft and adultery are immoral and selfish behaviors.


"Legally binding vows" about sexual fidelity, even in a non-religious ceremony? What?

Isn't emotional or physical withdrawal also not living up to marital vows?


In some states.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 17:30     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:To the doter, before I began working full-time, I would literally spend all day Friday preparing everything for the weekend -- make sure all the laundry was done, groceries were bought, house was clean, movies picked up for movie night along with snacks, etc. No one ever said thank you!

I only heard about how great all that stuff that I used to do on Fridays was when I went back to work and stopped doing it. THat was the point at which my husband said, "Gee, it used to be so terrific when I would come home on Friday night and there would be a warm dinner in the oven and the smell of banana bread and a nice bottle of wine and we were all ready to settle in for the weekend."

It was small comfort to know only in retrospect that he had appreciated those efforts. At the time, no one ever said anything. I felt like the maid and like I was running a hotel.

But the thing is, I also realized that I enjoyed the feeling of having everything ready to go on Friday so that the weekend would be great. I'm working from home today and I'm going to dash out during lunch to get groceries, throw in the laundry, start a nice dinner, etc. THe point isn't not to dote, but it's to not feel bad if it's unrecognized. Like all these posters are saying, if it makes you feel good to do something then go ahead, but don't do it expecting a pat on the head which you might not get.


Not the doter, but thanks for this.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 17:27     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:I and 30 and in a new relationship. I got my popcorn and settled into this thread. It's very interesting to me even though I have zero marriage experience.
I'm a doter. I dote. Is there any advice here, that can be applied to NEW relationships?


You have no idea who he will turn into and who you will turn into after you are married and in the grind. What happens is that life circumstances change. Kids, different jobs, new cities, etc. And neither of you have any idea what the other will become or as things change, what you and him regret losing or decide is missing.

I think it is a 50/50 chance any of us make a good choice in a life partner.

My advice is to not get married, not have kids and live a fullfilling life by yourself. That comes with other complications, but that is my advice.

My other advice is to have heart-to-heart talks with all your married friends and friends with kids. Most people married with kids don't give it to you straight. I walked into having kids thinking I knew how to have good relationships and that I would be a better parent than anyone I knew. Would I have had kids if I knew that it meant I got a literal 10 quiet minutes every few days? Make a journal of how many minutes you are alone now. None of us can really understand how literally 99% of that all goes away when we give birth. For at least 10 years if you get a challenging kid.

Not trying to derail the thread! Just commenting that there were signs he was going to react this way that I did not see. Some of them I couldn't see. I didn't understand until it was too late. Pick a better partner, and the criteria yoi have can be bullcrap. I passed up on a lot of guys who could have been better partners.
Anonymous
Post 09/30/2016 17:07     Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Try reading "The Dance of Anger." When you're moving toward someone, their natural reaction is to step away. Take a step back, they naturally move forward.