There are almost 2x as many Americans now as there were 50 years ago, not to mention the vast increase in the potential student population from women, Jews, minorities, int'l students, etc. It's just plain math that top schools are harder to get into and every school is more selective and has a stronger student body than they used to.

My kids are going in-state. No $$ for any Ivies or SLACs. My DD got accepted to several competitive colleges, but when we looked at the price tag, we said, No Way!!

I think a lot of parents are thinking the way we are. Both DH and I went to Ivies, but we are not rich enough to not feel $68K per year.

The end result is that a lot of kids who might have gone to Ivies 20 or more years ago, are now going to colleges that offer merit aid or to in-state schools that are much cheaper, meaning the quality of the student body at cheaper schools is going up. That's our experience. DD is very happy and challenged at her in-state college.

Parchment 2016

Anonymous wrote:Actually, there are real numbers. 13% of students admitted to both chose UM.

Source?

Parchment via NYTimes says 15 out of 15 cross admits chose Brown over U-M in 2014:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/04/upshot/college-picks.html#s=1474

Anonymous wrote:The Nobel Prize Committee must read DCUM!

I think that was posted AFTER the announcements were made. It was a subtle joke that went over most people's heads (those of us who don't follow physics prizes)

The Nobel Prize Committee must read DCUM!

Anonymous wrote:Brown is such a hippy-dippy liberal arts school for spoiled trust fund kids.

None of their faculty could ever do something like win a Nobel Prize in a field like Physics.

This was genuinely funny

Brown’s J. Michael Kosterlitz wins Nobel Prize in Physics
October 4, 2016
Professor of physics awarded "for theoretical discoveries of topological phase transitions and topological phases of matter.”

PROVIDENCE, R.I. — The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has awarded Brown University Professor J. Michael Kosterlitz the Nobel Prize in Physics “for theoretical discoveries of topological phase transitions and topological phases of matter.”

Anonymous wrote:This isn't even a real question. I bet you couldn't find more than 3 or 4 out of 28,000 U-M students who turned down Brown. At Brown all 6,000 turned down U-M and various U-M caliber schools.

I expect there are more than that. My DC is there and knows quite a few kids, not even just in-state kids, who turned down better Ivies than Brown either because of money (most of them) or departments (e.g., engineering, undergrad business). Agree that it is unlikely for wealthy kids from this area to make that choice.

Actually, there are real numbers. 13% of students admitted to both chose UM.

This isn't even a real question. I bet you couldn't find more than 3 or 4 out of 28,000 U-M students who turned down Brown. At Brown all 6,000 turned down U-M and various U-M caliber schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Michigan is a party school for rich coastal kids who are shut out of the top 20. Everyone knows this. Brown is the Ivy cool kids go to when they can't get into HYP. Brown is a very hot school right now.

+1. The acceptance rate at Brown is something like 8%. There are clearly a lot of kids who want to go there that are not admitted. Brown has a national reputation and draws applicants from all over the country and internationally. Michigan, while one of best known public universities and a great school, is not the "hot name" on the west coast that it is on the east coast. I'm sure Michigan excels in areas that Brown does not and vice versa, but I would bet that students at Brown are exposed to a much more diverse (in every way) student body than those at Michigan.

No skin in the game here...but, as a European who lived a couple decades in the West Coast, let me tell you that Brown and UMich are both pretty irrelevant in both Europe and the West Coast.

Meaning: if OP is willing to invest $68K...there's no particular reason to prioritize Brown over other, better schools.

And if OP wants to stay at the $28K level, UMich is a perfectly reasonable choice.

Lots of people can say how this school or that school is not relevant in this place or that. In the end it is all just anecdote. Money talks to academics the world over and is the only universal measure of relevance. UM has the second highest research expenditures of any US university (1.3B, Behind only JHU at 2.2B, NSF 2014 data). No academic in Europe, Cali or elsewhere would consider them irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day, if you do well in either, you can to anywhere (yes, HYP) for grad school. I know many U of M undergrads who went on to Harvard, Stanford and Yale, etc. for graduate programs.

True.

Grad is what makes a huge difference these days.

At the end of the day, if you do well in either, you can to anywhere (yes, HYP) for grad school. I know many U of M undergrads who went on to Harvard, Stanford and Yale, etc. for graduate programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Michigan is a party school for rich coastal kids who are shut out of the top 20. Everyone knows this. Brown is the Ivy cool kids go to when they can't get into HYP. Brown is a very hot school right now.

+1. The acceptance rate at Brown is something like 8%. There are clearly a lot of kids who want to go there that are not admitted. Brown has a national reputation and draws applicants from all over the country and internationally. Michigan, while one of best known public universities and a great school, is not the "hot name" on the west coast that it is on the east coast. I'm sure Michigan excels in areas that Brown does not and vice versa, but I would bet that students at Brown are exposed to a much more diverse (in every way) student body than those at Michigan.

No skin in the game here...but, as a European who lived a couple decades in the West Coast, let me tell you that Brown and UMich are both pretty irrelevant in both Europe and the West Coast.

Meaning: if OP is willing to invest $68K...there's no particular reason to prioritize Brown over other, better schools.

And if OP wants to stay at the $28K level, UMich is a perfectly reasonable choice.

Michigan is a party school for rich coastal kids who are shut out of the top 20. Everyone knows this. Brown is the Ivy cool kids go to when they can't get into HYP. Brown is a very hot school right now.

+1. The acceptance rate at Brown is something like 8%. There are clearly a lot of kids who want to go there that are not admitted. Brown has a national reputation and draws applicants from all over the country and internationally. Michigan, while one of best known public universities and a great school, is not the "hot name" on the west coast that it is on the east coast. I'm sure Michigan excels in areas that Brown does not and vice versa, but I would bet that students at Brown are exposed to a much more diverse (in every way) student body than those at Michigan.