Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

His plans for implanting his policies are simplistic and well cost way more than he has acknowledged. While affordable college is a worthy goal free college for all is not. Single payer healthcare in the US will be a disaster. I could go on. For example, widely expanding social security is not feasibl

That is not the case. Virtually every modern industrialized nation has some form of universal healthcare - except for the United States. Germany has had universal healthcare since Otto von Bismarck put it in place in 1898. Your flat-out dismissals and suggestions that it's unfeasible are not backed up by actual historical evidence to the contrary.

And yet he has no plan for paying for such a plan.

He does, actually.

Repealing all the tax exclusions, deductions and the like for private and employer-provided insurance raises a shit ton of money. And a tax on Wall Street speculation (Tobin tax) would also raise a shit ton.

But more to the point, it doesn't matter -- you have to take care of your people. That's a fundamental public good/duty of government.

And, even MORE to the point, whatever it costs, it's still a fraction of the unfunded wars we've started in the last decade or so.

5 unanswered questions about Bernie Sanders' health care plan

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/25/news/economy/sanders-health-care-plan/

I'm not an economist, but I know enough to know that Sanders proposals do not add up.

He proposes taxes on all financial transactions to pay for free college but does not account for the industry making adjustments in trading practices to reduce their tax burden, so (a) the plan exaggerates how much it will raise and (b) it adds inefficiency to financial markets by adding a non-market factor that will influence investment decisions.

The college plan also would cost more than he says because it has very weak or nonexistent management and oversight details, so colleges would be able to increase tuition with no improvements in quality required. It is essentially a voucher program, the tried and true way for the government to pay more and receive less of something.

Sanders' health plan replaces tax-exempt employer-paid health insurance premiums with a payroll tax and several other taxes, and incredibly he seems to believe that payroll taxes would not be taken out of employee compensation. Never mind that neither employers nor employees would want to do this. Even if it happened it would not work for many employees. Currently, the employer-paid premium and the employee share are the same for someone making $60K as it is for a coworker making $30K. Substituting a payroll tax would mean the employer would pay twice as much for the $60K worker as for the $30K worker. That would affect hiring and compensation all through the economy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

His plans for implanting his policies are simplistic and well cost way more than he has acknowledged. While affordable college is a worthy goal free college for all is not. Single payer healthcare in the US will be a disaster. I could go on. For example, widely expanding social security is not feasibl

Looks like you aren't listening carefully. Sanders is advocating free PUBLIC college as a right. Private colleges will not be free, and it's not clear how much a Sanders administration would push for legislation that provides grants to cover the expenses of room and board.

Expanding social security benefits can simply be done by asking every one to pay the same percentage of their income into social security. My wife and I stop contributing to Social Security in April and we are not alone, in making an HHI over $118K!

A phased in public option (Medicare for all who want it) will certainly cause a lot of pain to private health insurance providers, but a lot of money will be free'd up to do more productive things such as research into disease and cancer prevention. Sanders is correct that we can learn from other countries' successes and do better than the status quo.

When Nixon signed the Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 to pay back his campaign financier Edgar Kaiser, he made healthcare or, lack of providing healthcare, big business. It has ugly incentives provided by a rigged, and now federally backed scam system, in which giving care is punished, while denying it is rewarded.

We also spend over $60 Billion a year in excess administrative costs for by marketing and underwriting – costs that don’t exist in single-payer systems.

Please point me to anything at all where Stiglitz praises Bernie specifically. He helped develop Clinton's economic plan and I thought he had raised concerns about a $15 minimum wage in all localities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

His plans for implanting his policies are simplistic and well cost way more than he has acknowledged. While affordable college is a worthy goal free college for all is not. Single payer healthcare in the US will be a disaster. I could go on. For example, widely expanding social security is not feasibl

Looks like you aren't listening carefully. Sanders is advocating free PUBLIC college as a right. Private colleges will not be free, and it's not clear how much a Sanders administration would push for legislation that provides grants to cover the expenses of room and board.

Expanding social security benefits can simply be done by asking every one to pay the same percentage of their income into social security. My wife and I stop contributing to Social Security in April and we are not alone, in making an HHI over $118K!

A phased in public option (Medicare for all who want it) will certainly cause a lot of pain to private health insurance providers, but a lot of money will be free'd up to do more productive things such as research into disease and cancer prevention. Sanders is correct that we can learn from other countries' successes and do better than the status quo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

I think he's not competent to do the job. I'm an economist (a very lefty one) and I think he doesn't understand macroeconomics. From what he's said. I also think he's a great rabble rouser and a good person. But competence matters.

Um, how many presidents have been PhD economists or even MA economists or even BA economists? I would say Sanders understands economics well enough. Do you feel confident that the people who have been running our country to date had a good sense for economics? Greenspan himself APOLOGIZED to congress for his economic "supply side" economic policies and deregulation. Sanders had been on top of this years before, and there's footage of that. Honestly Sanders has a better grasp of economics than anyone who has or is threatening to be president of the US.

Here's one example. But there are several others, with Sanders grilling people on budget proposals, economic policies, and confirmation hearings. He's pretty spot on. You can youtube them.

Oops, this is what I meant to add: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=alan+greenspan+apology+sanders&view=detail&mid=660E88E8CD1BC0A0811F660E88E8CD1BC0A0811F&FORM=VIRE6

+1

The person trying to suggest that Sanders doesn't understand basic economics is off base.

Sorry, those dont support your point.

There are plenty of economists who happen to believe Sanders does have a solid grip of economics and is on the right track. Here's a very recent one (of many) as an example:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/

Stiglitz and a few other Nobel laureate economists have also agreed with a lot of what Sanders has to say. They don't think he's all that far off base and are far more qualified to say so than you are.

If he is so good at economics, one would assume he could explain how he would pay for his signature programs. This far he hasn't been able to do so, being off by billions.

Everybody has an opinion about the economy and many economists are frequently wrong. For example, Greenspan apologized for his mistakes in 2008:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html

Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWen53eqmJo

So when people question Paul Krugman, they may have a point too:
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/it-paul-krugman-who-lives-fantasy-world-not-bernie-supporters

The jury's not out until all the evidence is heard.
This hasn't even started yet.

OP, your entire premise is belied by Bernie's big win last night and Iowa's photo finish!

The same may very well bode true for the economy.

^ Greenspan initially refused to admit he was wrong when he was battling Sanders but several years later he turned around and recognized and acknowledged that Sanders was right all along.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

I think he's not competent to do the job. I'm an economist (a very lefty one) and I think he doesn't understand macroeconomics. From what he's said. I also think he's a great rabble rouser and a good person. But competence matters.

Um, how many presidents have been PhD economists or even MA economists or even BA economists? I would say Sanders understands economics well enough. Do you feel confident that the people who have been running our country to date had a good sense for economics? Greenspan himself APOLOGIZED to congress for his economic "supply side" economic policies and deregulation. Sanders had been on top of this years before, and there's footage of that. Honestly Sanders has a better grasp of economics than anyone who has or is threatening to be president of the US.

Here's one example. But there are several others, with Sanders grilling people on budget proposals, economic policies, and confirmation hearings. He's pretty spot on. You can youtube them.

Oops, this is what I meant to add: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=alan+greenspan+apology+sanders&view=detail&mid=660E88E8CD1BC0A0811F660E88E8CD1BC0A0811F&FORM=VIRE6

+1

The person trying to suggest that Sanders doesn't understand basic economics is off base.

Sorry, those dont support your point.

There are plenty of economists who happen to believe Sanders does have a solid grip of economics and is on the right track. Here's a very recent one (of many) as an example:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/

Stiglitz and a few other Nobel laureate economists have also agreed with a lot of what Sanders has to say. They don't think he's all that far off base and are far more qualified to say so than you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

His plans for implanting his policies are simplistic and well cost way more than he has acknowledged. While affordable college is a worthy goal free college for all is not. Single payer healthcare in the US will be a disaster. I could go on. For example, widely expanding social security is not feasibl

That is not the case. Virtually every modern industrialized nation has some form of universal healthcare - except for the United States. Germany has had universal healthcare since Otto von Bismarck put it in place in 1898. Your flat-out dismissals and suggestions that it's unfeasible are not backed up by actual historical evidence to the contrary.

It isn't comparable because they made a different decision forty years ago, The overwhelming majority of Americans like their health care and have no interest in changing. The issue is a political loser, most Americans still oppose Obamacare.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1

The person trying to suggest that Sanders doesn't understand basic economics is off base.

The pp who suggested that is her/himself an economist. I'd like to hear their reasons, but for you to suggest they're off base is a little basic.

Yes. The economist by training has to get the kids to school and off to work. I didn't mean to open up the "why Bernie doesn't get Econ" convo right now. I was just answering the question of why I personally can't support Bernie. But very short answer is that he's made numerous statements that reveal he doesn't understand the impact of huge, economically relevant policy changes on the macroeconomy. I completely agree with him about income inequality. But he has no realistic path to solve that without throwing us into either a massive debt crisis or an inflationary crisis. Maybe he will put one forth soon, but he hasn't yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the main reason I should vote for Hillary is that Sanders can't win?

Yes. Exactly. I for one can't tolerate Trump, Cruz, Rubio, or any of the other front runners. And defeating them is my goal.

This is how I feel too. Even if I like Sanders better than Hillary, I'll take Hillary any day over Trump or Cruz. I don't think Sanders has a chance in a general election (unfortunately) so I will vote for Hillary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

His plans for implanting his policies are simplistic and well cost way more than he has acknowledged. While affordable college is a worthy goal free college for all is not. Single payer healthcare in the US will be a disaster. I could go on. For example, widely expanding social security is not feasibl

That is not the case. Virtually every modern industrialized nation has some form of universal healthcare - except for the United States. Germany has had universal healthcare since Otto von Bismarck put it in place in 1898. Your flat-out dismissals and suggestions that it's unfeasible are not backed up by actual historical evidence to the contrary.

And yet he has no plan for paying for such a plan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nader/Gore/Bush = Sanders/Clinton/Rubio.

Or sanders drops out but had pulled Clinton so far left before the general that she can't win.
I'm becoming so hopeless I am now wondering if the best possible outcome is trump getting the R nom and then Bloomberg jumping in. I could live with him. At least he probably wouldn't ruin the country.

Don't be afraid of Sanders. What's so scary about him? Do you like his positions? Do you think he's advocating for a kinder, smarter, fair-er America that invests in its families, children, young people? Are you afraid of your taxes going up? What exactly is it that is so scary about Sanders' campaign?

I think he's not competent to do the job. I'm an economist (a very lefty one) and I think he doesn't understand macroeconomics. From what he's said. I also think he's a great rabble rouser and a good person. But competence matters.

Um, how many presidents have been PhD economists or even MA economists or even BA economists? I would say Sanders understands economics well enough. Do you feel confident that the people who have been running our country to date had a good sense for economics? Greenspan himself APOLOGIZED to congress for his economic "supply side" economic policies and deregulation. Sanders had been on top of this years before, and there's footage of that. Honestly Sanders has a better grasp of economics than anyone who has or is threatening to be president of the US.

Here's one example. But there are several others, with Sanders grilling people on budget proposals, economic policies, and confirmation hearings. He's pretty spot on. You can youtube them.

Oops, this is what I meant to add: http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=alan+greenspan+apology+sanders&view=detail&mid=660E88E8CD1BC0A0811F660E88E8CD1BC0A0811F&FORM=VIRE6

+1

The person trying to suggest that Sanders doesn't understand basic economics is off base.

Sorry, those dont support your point.