Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Centers have been around for longer than 10 years.

I think you know exactly what was meant.

Yes, the pp is arguing that centers are unnecessary because 10 years ago GT students were "always" in their base schools. I pointed out this is not true.

The point is that separate education (centers) for AAP kids is unnecessary. They can be taught in their own base schools, as they used to be. It's interesting that AAP parents think their kids need to be taught separately, but that it's just fine for the kids at the opposite end of the spectrum to be fully integrated in the General Ed. classes. If it's fine for those kids, then it should be fine for the AAP kids. Right? Or are AAP kids somehow entitled to a separate educational experience?

I disagree.

You disagree with what part? That kids on the lower end of the spectrum should be included in "regular" classrooms, or that AAP kids should be? Because if we're going to push for inclusion of all kids, then why should AAP be any different? No need for a special learning environment.

Anonymous wrote:yes they are entitled to a different experience-such is the nature of special Ed

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Centers have been around for longer than 10 years.

I think you know exactly what was meant.

Yes, the pp is arguing that centers are unnecessary because 10 years ago GT students were "always" in their base schools. I pointed out this is not true.

The point is that separate education (centers) for AAP kids is unnecessary. They can be taught in their own base schools, as they used to be. It's interesting that AAP parents think their kids need to be taught separately, but that it's just fine for the kids at the opposite end of the spectrum to be fully integrated in the General Ed. classes. If it's fine for those kids, then it should be fine for the AAP kids. Right? Or are AAP kids somehow entitled to a separate educational experience?

I disagree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Centers have been around for longer than 10 years.

I think you know exactly what was meant.

Yes, the pp is arguing that centers are unnecessary because 10 years ago GT students were "always" in their base schools. I pointed out this is not true.

The point is that separate education (centers) for AAP kids is unnecessary. They can be taught in their own base schools, as they used to be. It's interesting that AAP parents think their kids need to be taught separately, but that it's just fine for the kids at the opposite end of the spectrum to be fully integrated in the General Ed. classes. If it's fine for those kids, then it should be fine for the AAP kids. Right? Or are AAP kids somehow entitled to a separate educational experience?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Centers have been around for longer than 10 years.

I think you know exactly what was meant.

Yes, the pp is arguing that centers are unnecessary because 10 years ago GT students were "always" in their base schools. I pointed out this is not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Centers have been around for longer than 10 years.

I think you know exactly what was meant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Centers have been around for longer than 10 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people even arguing about? AAP transportation is $1 million. Want to do away with it? Fine. That's $1 million out of the $75 million FCPS says it needs. AAP level 4 does not cost any more except testing which I'm told would happen anyway. A Center designation does not cost more money. Level 2 and 3 are the services that costs more money. Is this what people are arguing goes away? Getting rid of the AART teachers who teach Young Scholars, level 2 and level 3 advanced academics?

Creating local level 4s will cost money -- they will have to interview and hire AAP teachers at all the ESs, install trailers, deal with picking kids to fill out classes who aren't AAP-qualified, etc. Don't think it's just a quick reduction of $1m to get rid of bussing.

Oh -- I forgot about the costs of rezoning. B/c my kids' AAP center school is over 50% AAP. Get rid of busing and put a phony local level 4 in each feeder school and you will definitely have to rezone the former-center school. There are costs associated with that as well. The budget committee was given a list of items with a direct-cost listed. Indirect costs were not listed... and I believe the indirect costs of eliminating busing and adding local level 4 everywhere are substantial.

The costs will be a lot less if they redefine what "level 4" is. If they decide that level 4 is just pull outs or even grouping kids for math/reading, it will be cheaper than what I've described above... but it will also be a very watered down program. There is good reason to be concerned... not panicked, but concerned. For those of us who know and love our kids' center, there could be drastic changes... and what we know may not exist next year... but right now, it's all very vague.

My kids also attend an AAP center that is over 50% AAP. I completely disagree that rezoning would cost that much and in fact, believe we are long overdue for some rezoning. Why do you call a LLIV program "phony"? Why must your kids have a special center program? This is a public school system which is not in any way required to house AAP kids in centers. GT kids from a decade and more ago were always instructed in their own schools and they did just fine. Besides which, the vast majority of current AAP kids are completely mainstream and absolutely don't need a special learning environment. Why do you feel your kids are entitled to one?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people were being honest, they would acknowledge that the impact of sorting kids into AAP and GenEd tracks at public schools is of a different nature than a kid making a travel soccer team. Not that one predicts success, or the other guarantees failure, but the message delivered and longer-term consequences are more significant.

But, please, carry on with the rationalizations. It's fairly amusing to watch the rhetorical somersaults when the truth is fairly obvious.

Absolutely agree. The tired travel soccer analogy is comparing apples to oranges. It's one thing for a child to know that he or she isn't athletically talented enough to compete on a travel team. Obviously, travel teams are all about competition and want to win, so they'll only accept the best players. (And no, my kids aren't athletes, so I don't have anyone on a travel team).

It's quite another thing to tell one group of kids they're "smarter" than the other group. Labeling based on something as basic as innate knowledge can follow one through life. And what makes the AAP system even more egregious than simply offering a GT program for the exceptionally gifted, is that it sorts the entire population of students into two groups, with an incredible amount of overlap in each. Most AAP kids no smarter than most Gen Ed kids, but all of these kids will grow up falsely believing that they are either smart or not. Nothing about the system as it stands is right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people were being honest, they would acknowledge that the impact of sorting kids into AAP and GenEd tracks at public schools is of a different nature than a kid making a travel soccer team. Not that one predicts success, or the other guarantees failure, but the message delivered and longer-term consequences are more significant.

But, please, carry on with the rationalizations. It's fairly amusing to watch the rhetorical somersaults when the truth is fairly obvious.

Absolutely agree. The tired travel soccer analogy is comparing apples to oranges. It's one thing for a child to know that he or she isn't athletically talented enough to compete on a travel team. Obviously, travel teams are all about competition and want to win, so they'll only accept the best players. (And no, my kids aren't athletes, so I don't have anyone on a travel team).

It's quite another thing to tell one group of kids they're "smarter" than the other group. Labeling based on something as basic as innate knowledge can follow one through life. And what makes the AAP system even more egregious than simply offering a GT program for the exceptionally gifted, is that it sorts the entire population of students into two groups, with an incredible amount of overlap in each. Most AAP kids no smarter than most Gen Ed kids, but all of these kids will grow up falsely believing that they are either smart or not. Nothing about the system as it stands is right.