Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:25     Subject: Re:Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Whatever.


+1 Everyone was doing what they thought was right.

I have no interest into getting into another long thread about this again. OP just wants to find fault. Boring.


I'm not the OP, and I want to find fault. You know all those worries about kids being abducted by strangers? For these kids, that worry became reality yesterday, thanks to a busybody neighbor.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28783266/free-range-kids


What? They weren't abducted. These parents care more about publicity and ideology than their kids.


PP, read the post. They walked to their neighborhood park and a neighbor saw them and called the police. This is ridiculous!


You need to read all the comments. This was not a "neighborhood park" - it was an urban park, in a dangerous traffic area, blocks away from a gang hangout spot. The "neighbor" likely was just a concerned citizen, not somebody who knew the kids or parents.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:25     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Did they lose custody of the 10yo too or just the 6yo?

10 is fine to walk to the park. 6 is too young to not have proper supervision.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:24     Subject: Re:Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
NP. It seems to me that these parents expect other people (neighbors, parents at the park, etc) to look out for their kids. Maybe the people who called CPS are tired of feeling like they are supposed to do that. It doesn't seem reasonable that these FR parents put responsibility for care taking (even at a low level) but think it outrageous that someone observing their kids alone would call CPS for help. You can't have it both ways.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:22     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
This might have been said, but whoever keeps claiming the park is 1/3 mile from their house is incorrect. Park is a mile away, according to the article.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:14     Subject: Re:Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Whatever.


+1 Everyone was doing what they thought was right.

I have no interest into getting into another long thread about this again. OP just wants to find fault. Boring.


I'm not the OP, and I want to find fault. You know all those worries about kids being abducted by strangers? For these kids, that worry became reality yesterday, thanks to a busybody neighbor.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/28783266/free-range-kids


What? They weren't abducted. These parents care more about publicity and ideology than their kids.


PP, read the post. They walked to their neighborhood park and a neighbor saw them and called the police. This is ridiculous!
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:13     Subject: Re:Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Would still like to know when the regs/law/guidelines changed. What is the history? Or is it another case of people's opinions changed on what the definition of is is?

I'd like to see this issue taken up with voters, but that won't happen. I hope the parents sue, because I think it is the only way the situation will be evaluated in a meaningful way.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:12     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:So why didn't the kids speak up and demand to call their parents? Why come the kids didn't fight back, run off, refuse to go, use their cell phone to immediately call their parents? What happened to the mature, knows what to do even In a frightening situation 10 yr old?

Imagine now it wasn't the police who came along and took the kids.

Clearly the 10 yr old and 6 yr old aren't equipped to deal with situations like the parents believed.


Yeah, blame the kids. This is Big Government run amok. And yet MCPS will say it can't support the school budget. Is CPS state-wide or under MOCo?
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:08     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


We are not talking about sadness, neglect, and abuse here, though. We are talking about evaluating whether your child is able to cross a street safely by themselves.


It's not just about crossing a street; it's about possible neglect.


I'll be sure to tell my mother, who routinely allowed me to walk places by myself, that she was a neglectful mother, and that CPS should have come and taken me into custody.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 11:01     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I was going to say something similar. Lots of people are running with this story saying "but I let my kids go to the park all the time and it's fine." If you're not familiar with this particular area, it doesn't mean much. There really are some awful intersections and it's not an overblown fear of child abduction that has some people saying it's not wise to let these kids wander this particular area unsupervised. I have no opinion as to whether CPS has overstepped the line, but can we stop pretending that this is just big government vs. sensible parents. There are legitimate threats to a child's safety in that area and pretending that this is just a case of nosy neighbors turning in parents who let their kids go to the park unsupervised misses the point. If we didn't have so many danagerous drivers in the area maybe these kids could have more freedom. But welcome to Silver
I'm familiar with this particular area. The "awful" intersections have wide sidewalks, clearly marked crosswalks, lots and lots of pedestrians, pedestrian signals, and low-speed (25-30 mph) roads. Are the intersections as safe as they could be? Absolutely not. Do you take your life into your hands when you cross Colesville Road and Georgia Avenue? Nope.


I've seen some really scary near-misses at the intersection of Wayne and Georgia. Is that one of the intersections we're talking about? There's a lot of confusion between drivers and pedestrians about who has the right of way. I've also heard the "pedestrian down" reports for that intersection more than once during my morning commute. This is an intersection where pedestrians have to be prepared for the driver to break the rules and react quickly if that happens. That's why having an adult present is a no-brainer. But maybe I'm not thinking of the right area?


A good number of drivers run lights, especially while turning that endangers pedestrians when they have walk signals in that area. A lot of drivers speed around there too.


Don't forget all the kids run over by parents in their own driveway. Make sure you don't let them play in the yard.


Except those two things are completely different. By that logic, we should let kids of any age go anywhere regardless of the danger it poses simply because there are also risks they face at home that can't ever be completely removed.



And that is where things are headed, I'm afraid. It is 1984 and a Brave New World!
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 10:49     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I was going to say something similar. Lots of people are running with this story saying "but I let my kids go to the park all the time and it's fine." If you're not familiar with this particular area, it doesn't mean much. There really are some awful intersections and it's not an overblown fear of child abduction that has some people saying it's not wise to let these kids wander this particular area unsupervised. I have no opinion as to whether CPS has overstepped the line, but can we stop pretending that this is just big government vs. sensible parents. There are legitimate threats to a child's safety in that area and pretending that this is just a case of nosy neighbors turning in parents who let their kids go to the park unsupervised misses the point. If we didn't have so many danagerous drivers in the area maybe these kids could have more freedom. But welcome to Silver
I'm familiar with this particular area. The "awful" intersections have wide sidewalks, clearly marked crosswalks, lots and lots of pedestrians, pedestrian signals, and low-speed (25-30 mph) roads. Are the intersections as safe as they could be? Absolutely not. Do you take your life into your hands when you cross Colesville Road and Georgia Avenue? Nope.


I've seen some really scary near-misses at the intersection of Wayne and Georgia. Is that one of the intersections we're talking about? There's a lot of confusion between drivers and pedestrians about who has the right of way. I've also heard the "pedestrian down" reports for that intersection more than once during my morning commute. This is an intersection where pedestrians have to be prepared for the driver to break the rules and react quickly if that happens. That's why having an adult present is a no-brainer. But maybe I'm not thinking of the right area?


A good number of drivers run lights, especially while turning that endangers pedestrians when they have walk signals in that area. A lot of drivers speed around there too.


Don't forget all the kids run over by parents in their own driveway. Make sure you don't let them play in the yard.


Except those two things are completely different. By that logic, we should let kids of any age go anywhere regardless of the danger it poses simply because there are also risks they face at home that can't ever be completely removed.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 10:47     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But I don't think people are as worried about the destination as they are about the journey. Are there any major roads or busy intersections nearby?


Do you think that a six-year-old and a ten-year-old are inherently incapable of crossing a major road by themselves, or do you think it depends on the specific six-year-old and ten-year-old and the specific major road?


I think it depends on the specifics. And I think some of the intersections at issue are notoriously horrible.


I think it depends on the specifics, too. And I think that the people best qualified to evaluate the specifics are the specific children's parents.


You don't seem to have much experience with how some "specific children's parents" treat their children. In the public schools, we hear a lot of sadness, neglect, and abuse.



We are not talking about sadness, neglect, and abuse here, though. We are talking about evaluating whether your child is able to cross a street safely by themselves.


It's not just about crossing a street; it's about possible neglect.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 10:47     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But I don't think people are as worried about the destination as they are about the journey. Are there any major roads or busy intersections nearby?


Do you think that a six-year-old and a ten-year-old are inherently incapable of crossing a major road by themselves, or do you think it depends on the specific six-year-old and ten-year-old and the specific major road?


Studies suggest this is not until about 8 years old to be reliable.


Which studies?


Here's one for starters - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256780/

6 years olds 11 times more likely to make unsafe judgments than 10 year olds.



But that doesn't mean that every six-year-old will make an unsafe judgment, or that every 10-year-old will make a safer judgment than every six-year-old.


Of course not - it's saying that 6 year olds suck at it relative to 10 year olds on the whole.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 10:46     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But I don't think people are as worried about the destination as they are about the journey. Are there any major roads or busy intersections nearby?


Do you think that a six-year-old and a ten-year-old are inherently incapable of crossing a major road by themselves, or do you think it depends on the specific six-year-old and ten-year-old and the specific major road?


Studies suggest this is not until about 8 years old to be reliable.


Which studies?


Here's one for starters - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256780/

6 years olds 11 times more likely to make unsafe judgments than 10 year olds.


That and here's another source - Child Pedestrian Safety Education by the National Highway Traffice Safety Administration - google it.


This wasn't a 6 year old alone, it was a 6 year old and a 10 year old. Even in Maryland, it would be fine if the older child is 11, not 10.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 10:44     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I was going to say something similar. Lots of people are running with this story saying "but I let my kids go to the park all the time and it's fine." If you're not familiar with this particular area, it doesn't mean much. There really are some awful intersections and it's not an overblown fear of child abduction that has some people saying it's not wise to let these kids wander this particular area unsupervised. I have no opinion as to whether CPS has overstepped the line, but can we stop pretending that this is just big government vs. sensible parents. There are legitimate threats to a child's safety in that area and pretending that this is just a case of nosy neighbors turning in parents who let their kids go to the park unsupervised misses the point. If we didn't have so many danagerous drivers in the area maybe these kids could have more freedom. But welcome to Silver
I'm familiar with this particular area. The "awful" intersections have wide sidewalks, clearly marked crosswalks, lots and lots of pedestrians, pedestrian signals, and low-speed (25-30 mph) roads. Are the intersections as safe as they could be? Absolutely not. Do you take your life into your hands when you cross Colesville Road and Georgia Avenue? Nope.


I've seen some really scary near-misses at the intersection of Wayne and Georgia. Is that one of the intersections we're talking about? There's a lot of confusion between drivers and pedestrians about who has the right of way. I've also heard the "pedestrian down" reports for that intersection more than once during my morning commute. This is an intersection where pedestrians have to be prepared for the driver to break the rules and react quickly if that happens. That's why having an adult present is a no-brainer. But maybe I'm not thinking of the right area?


A good number of drivers run lights, especially while turning that endangers pedestrians when they have walk signals in that area. A lot of drivers speed around there too.


Don't forget all the kids run over by parents in their own driveway. Make sure you don't let them play in the yard.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2015 10:43     Subject: Free-range kids picked up AGAIN by police
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

But I don't think people are as worried about the destination as they are about the journey. Are there any major roads or busy intersections nearby?


Do you think that a six-year-old and a ten-year-old are inherently incapable of crossing a major road by themselves, or do you think it depends on the specific six-year-old and ten-year-old and the specific major road?


Studies suggest this is not until about 8 years old to be reliable.


Which studies?


Here's one for starters - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3256780/

6 years olds 11 times more likely to make unsafe judgments than 10 year olds.


That and here's another source - Child Pedestrian Safety Education by the National Highway Traffice Safety Administration - google it.