Anonymous wrote:The Christian narrative is the most compelling story ever to cross the horizon of this world. It will be here till the end of the earth .

Sez who? -- this is a meaningless pronouncement

but are you acknowledging that it's a story? if so , that's progress.

The Christian narrative is the most compelling story ever to cross the horizon of this world. It will be here till the end of the earth .

I get the attraction of the idea of Heaven and Hell. Everyone wants to believe that young children that die are really just waiting for their parents in Heaven. And everyone wants to believe that there is some kind of justice at the end of life since it sometimes seems that there is very little justice in life.

It is HARD to grow up. It is HARD to take responsibility for your life and realize that it is really up to you to make sustainable loving choices, and that it is really up to you to accept that people die and are gone, and that sometimes cheaters win.

It is much easier, and acceptable in this culture, to throw in with organized religion. No one should be surprised or judgmental towards those that do. I don't feel sorry for the people who have chosen to throw in with widely accepted beliefs. But I do wonder......

Are you looking for us to reassure you that God doesn't exist or that God will let you into heaven when you die? I don't see how you're expecting both.

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Anonymous wrote:But someone please answer this question: if you get up to heaven and find out that your spouse/father/mother/son/daughter/best friend/favorite aunt/brother/sister or whoever it is you love the most did not make it -- can you honestly say you'd be happy in eternity knowing that loved one is tormented in hell?

I believe you may have profound understanding and acceptance that no one ends up away from God lightly, and that they consciously created such a situation. I don't know how sadness or pity would manifest itself in an eternal state.

I see some waffling there, and an admission of not knowing. Are you saying that once you get to heaven, you'll understand and accept why God rejected the loved ones you were counting on spending eternity with? and won't mind that they are burning in hell forever?

Yes, and that seems like that contradicts what's supposed to be the essence of comforting thoughts about death -- that some day you will be reunited with your loved ones, that they're not really gone, etc. If it turns out you won't be reunited, where's the solace? And why would sadness or pity not be manifest in eternity -- when there are so many instances of God expressing emotions in biblical scripture - anger, sadness, sorrow, pity, being pleased with his creation.

If God gets to be sad about the death of his son, why wouldn't a mother get to be sad in heaven if her son or husband isn't allowed to join her there? Heaven is supposed to be a state of perfection, but I have a hard time imaging it to be perfect if loved ones are separated for all eternity.

Yeah, I'm the poster you quoted and I don't know how it will manifest itself. But I don't think my loving someone and the happiness I derive from that relationship overrides that person's choice to ultimately separate from God. Meaning someone wants nothing to do with heaven/God and my feelings for them force them out of their chosen state to be with me. I wonder if a proclaimed atheist would even want that.

To me that seems to cheapen relationships and love here on earth. Doesn't matter how strong the bond of love is between me and my child - if she decides to separate from God, too bad. I'll still be fine without her without eternity.

I think at the very least it calls into question the simplistic ideas about afterlife that most religions peddle - that you'll be reunited and hanging out with all your loved ones having a grand old time. (How does that work anyway when you consider all the generations of a person's ancestors that go back thousands and thousands of years? You want to be with your grandparents, who want to be with their grandparents and so on and so on -- that gets to be a very crowded gathering. But I digress....)

I still say if any god that's out there can be sad at what happened to his son here on earth (even as he knew he'd be resurrected and reunited with him up in heaven very soon) then humans should be able to feel sorrow in eternity knowing a loved one is tormented in hell.

Maybe. I don't know.

Think about it for a while. God is benevolent, he loves us so much he sacrifices his own son (3 days, only, but still); he promises us eternal life if only we say we believe in him. Then Once we're in Heaven, he denies us the company of friends and family who didn't say they believed in him --- maybe died to soon to change their minds about him. How benevolent is this? It seems more like god is hell-bent on punishing people for a technicality than he's willing to make people happy in heaven.

It really sounds like the whole thing is made up to pacify people who really aren't thinking very hard and who are terribly afraid of dying

What if a person is able to decide after death so no need for time to rethink disbelief. And that person doesn't want to go to heaven, is angry with God, believes that God did not do enough for those in the world and chooses a separate existence. Then wouldn't it make sense that those people are allowed to embrace their nothing end?

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"Voluminous scripture" proves nothing.

In a thousand years from now, some culture could make 50 Shades of Gray its bible.


Get it?

I mentioned voluminous Scripture because Christians were referred to as having a "bs theory" and was earlier than that that we can take one piece of the Bible and make it say whatever we want. But what I am presenting is the consistent clear message of Scripture. And the only reason I write these posts is so that perhaps someone will read them and understand that God is a forgiving, loving God that doesn't care what you've done if you'll only repent. I don't want anyone to go to Hell. More than that, I want everyone to go to Heaven. But I am perplexed by the dichotomy of these views denying Christian teaching: On one hand, it's said God is too good to send people to Hell, and on the other hand, some people (like child rapists) really deserve it and how dare I suggest they can find redemption. Which is it?

And the main reason I respond to these posts is so people reading here will see how weak fundamentalist arguments are and how desperate and rigid and brainwashed they sound.

Jesus Christ offers forgiveness and eternal life. What is it you have to offer?

NP here. What I have to offer is, when you're dead you're dead. That is all.

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Anonymous wrote:Blessed are the weak .

because it says so in the Bible. Can't we just say, protect the weak, because it's a nice thing to do?

Blessed are the meek.

Anonymous wrote:Blessed are the weak .

because it says so in the Bible. Can't we just say, protect the weak, because it's a nice thing to do?

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Anonymous wrote:But someone please answer this question: if you get up to heaven and find out that your spouse/father/mother/son/daughter/best friend/favorite aunt/brother/sister or whoever it is you love the most did not make it -- can you honestly say you'd be happy in eternity knowing that loved one is tormented in hell?

I believe you may have profound understanding and acceptance that no one ends up away from God lightly, and that they consciously created such a situation. I don't know how sadness or pity would manifest itself in an eternal state.

I see some waffling there, and an admission of not knowing. Are you saying that once you get to heaven, you'll understand and accept why God rejected the loved ones you were counting on spending eternity with? and won't mind that they are burning in hell forever?

Yes, and that seems like that contradicts what's supposed to be the essence of comforting thoughts about death -- that some day you will be reunited with your loved ones, that they're not really gone, etc. If it turns out you won't be reunited, where's the solace? And why would sadness or pity not be manifest in eternity -- when there are so many instances of God expressing emotions in biblical scripture - anger, sadness, sorrow, pity, being pleased with his creation.

If God gets to be sad about the death of his son, why wouldn't a mother get to be sad in heaven if her son or husband isn't allowed to join her there? Heaven is supposed to be a state of perfection, but I have a hard time imaging it to be perfect if loved ones are separated for all eternity.

Yeah, I'm the poster you quoted and I don't know how it will manifest itself. But I don't think my loving someone and the happiness I derive from that relationship overrides that person's choice to ultimately separate from God. Meaning someone wants nothing to do with heaven/God and my feelings for them force them out of their chosen state to be with me. I wonder if a proclaimed atheist would even want that.

To me that seems to cheapen relationships and love here on earth. Doesn't matter how strong the bond of love is between me and my child - if she decides to separate from God, too bad. I'll still be fine without her without eternity.

I think at the very least it calls into question the simplistic ideas about afterlife that most religions peddle - that you'll be reunited and hanging out with all your loved ones having a grand old time. (How does that work anyway when you consider all the generations of a person's ancestors that go back thousands and thousands of years? You want to be with your grandparents, who want to be with their grandparents and so on and so on -- that gets to be a very crowded gathering. But I digress....)

I still say if any god that's out there can be sad at what happened to his son here on earth (even as he knew he'd be resurrected and reunited with him up in heaven very soon) then humans should be able to feel sorrow in eternity knowing a loved one is tormented in hell.

Maybe. I don't know.

Think about it for a while. God is benevolent, he loves us so much he sacrifices his own son (3 days, only, but still); he promises us eternal life if only we say we believe in him. Then Once we're in Heaven, he denies us the company of friends and family who didn't say they believed in him --- maybe died to soon to change their minds about him. How benevolent is this? It seems more like god is hell-bent on punishing people for a technicality than he's willing to make people happy in heaven.

It really sounds like the whole thing is made up to pacify people who really aren't thinking very hard and who are terribly afraid of dying