Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 09:56     Subject: American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:Well said pp!


Indeed. That's what I've been trying to say all along. The guy was a hero AND a liar. We can come to praise him AND come to bury him. Intelligent people should not find those two things mutually exclusive. However, as OP stated correctly 19 pages ago, anyone who is criticizing any aspect of Kyle's life is being called all manner of insulting things. Why?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 09:45     Subject: American Sniper
Well said pp!
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 09:26     Subject: American Sniper
Vets are not treated like garbage. That simply isn't true.

Have many been traumatized by their service? Absolutely.

Those are two separate issues.

What this movie has prompted is a difficult conversation about the war, the military and our perceptions and comfort levels with all things military. It's messy. It's complicated. The guy was brave in my book for volunteering for service in the first place. Period. He had a very difficult job. Period. He did it very well. Period. His actions likely saved a lot of lives. Period. He came home traumatized, like many, and struggled (like most). He had his own issues like most people, and he wasn't mother Teresa...big deal...no one is.

For whatever reason, folks here seem to want to draw a bright line: he's either a hero or an ass. Why? Why can't he just be a veteran who served honorably and did his job well?
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 08:54     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why can't we have nicer kinder snipers that appreciate art.


So snipers get to come home and kill people, beat people, and accuse the federal government of killing dozens of Americans without due process?


We ask them to do atrocious thinks to protect our county, lack the ability to manage mental illness when they return, then you sit iny our warm homes with your high speed internet and degrees you don't use judging them.


Exactly


Of course Kyle had the right to write the book. He chose to put it out there for whatever fame, glory , praise, criticism, discussion, and judgement that would bring. Thousands of other vets chose not to do so.


But yet all the vets are praising him for bringing light to a subject they don't feel feel sure about only because of public feeling. Veterans are treated like garbage here in the US. They are expected to come back and never mention a word and have a normal life. PTSD, anxiety, depression, night terrors, shadow limbs, suicides. That is not normal. The only ones that are making a big deal about it are non-military liberals who think that combat is never the answer.

And other vets do write books, this is just the biggest current one out there right now.


Vets are not treated like garbage here. Vets are heroized now. We honor them at public events, we give them discounts, they proudly display their veteran status on their cars and trucks. This is not the Vietnam era anymore.

They are treated like shit by being sent into useless wars. Almost all of these guys coming home with head trauma, PTSD, and missing limbs fought a war in Iraq that had nothing to do with defending our country. Sorry, but it's true. We were right to go into Afghanistan, but we absolutely did NOT have to invade Iraq. That is why they have PTSD. That is why they have night terrors, anxiety, depression. You can't always rebuild people when you break them.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 08:44     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why can't we have nicer kinder snipers that appreciate art.


So snipers get to come home and kill people, beat people, and accuse the federal government of killing dozens of Americans without due process?


We ask them to do atrocious thinks to protect our county, lack the ability to manage mental illness when they return, then you sit iny our warm homes with your high speed internet and degrees you don't use judging them.


Exactly


Of course Kyle had the right to write the book. He chose to put it out there for whatever fame, glory , praise, criticism, discussion, and judgement that would bring. Thousands of other vets chose not to do so.


But yet all the vets are praising him for bringing light to a subject they don't feel feel sure about only because of public feeling. Veterans are treated like garbage here in the US. They are expected to come back and never mention a word and have a normal life. PTSD, anxiety, depression, night terrors, shadow limbs, suicides. That is not normal. The only ones that are making a big deal about it are non-military liberals who think that combat is never the answer.

And other vets do write books, this is just the biggest current one out there right now.


I never said other vets don't write books only that thousands don't. Every vet like every other author is making the choice to put him or her self out there and they have every right to. Just because they have the right and freedom to put it out there does not mean they are free from criticism.

It's fine if you think he is a hero. It's fine if someone else reads the book and decides he is not. Just because they believe this about one individual does mean they are unpatriotic/"liberal"/"always against combat"/support veterans any less than you do.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 02:17     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:There are different kind of heroes and many have flaws. I think what was sad to people was the idea that Chris Kyle shouldn't speak of his experiences. Like being an effective soldier - which can involve killing - is something to button down or not speak about. A lot of us have a problem with self aggradizement, but it seemed like a lot of folks here were simply uncomfortable with what hes known for, being a successful sniper. That taps into this strange meme of the 21st century that war should somehow be sanitized/not.involve killing. For a lot of us with loved ones in the military, it makes us worry they are being asked to do an effective job with one hand behind their back: Set up to fail. I can support my family's service, but only if they are supported in turn.
So.in short, for many of us the movie was a big bundle - a chance to talk about it, a chance to respect exemplary service, a chance to recognize that to win wars can involve deep ethical questions like killing to stop killers. But if we aren't willing to do that as a nation, we simply shouldn't be at war. So I welcome when each war is scrutinized, talked about - but when we as a nation send people to war for crying out loud you may question the war but support the mandated actions they take to do their job effectively...


+1

Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 02:16     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why can't we have nicer kinder snipers that appreciate art.


So snipers get to come home and kill people, beat people, and accuse the federal government of killing dozens of Americans without due process?


We ask them to do atrocious thinks to protect our county, lack the ability to manage mental illness when they return, then you sit iny our warm homes with your high speed internet and degrees you don't use judging them.


Exactly


Of course Kyle had the right to write the book. He chose to put it out there for whatever fame, glory , praise, criticism, discussion, and judgement that would bring. Thousands of other vets chose not to do so.


But yet all the vets are praising him for bringing light to a subject they don't feel feel sure about only because of public feeling. Veterans are treated like garbage here in the US. They are expected to come back and never mention a word and have a normal life. PTSD, anxiety, depression, night terrors, shadow limbs, suicides. That is not normal. The only ones that are making a big deal about it are non-military liberals who think that combat is never the answer.

And other vets do write books, this is just the biggest current one out there right now.
Anonymous
Post 01/25/2015 00:11     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why can't we have nicer kinder snipers that appreciate art.


So snipers get to come home and kill people, beat people, and accuse the federal government of killing dozens of Americans without due process?


We ask them to do atrocious thinks to protect our county, lack the ability to manage mental illness when they return, then you sit iny our warm homes with your high speed internet and degrees you don't use judging them.


Exactly


Of course Kyle had the right to write the book. He chose to put it out there for whatever fame, glory , praise, criticism, discussion, and judgement that would bring. Thousands of other vets chose not to do so.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 14:40     Subject: American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This thread derailed when someone said you are a racist if you don't think MLK is more important than Kyle. Not only are you comparing apples to oranges but you can not use racism if a white person's opinion is different than yours. No one here said MLK is a fake, they prefer segregation, etc... THAT is racism. Not thinking Kyle is more important to them at this time.

If I am white am I not allowed to say Larry Bird is better than Michael Jorda? 99% of the country could disagree with me but it does not mean I am racist. If I said "I don't think blank people should be in basketball." That is racist.

Why people can't understand the difference is why race is brought into every news story.



The conservative poster brought in mlk.

And if you thought Larry Bird was better, you would probably point out some relevant fact like his rebounds per game or how he created more scoring opportunities for his teammates. You wouldn't hesitate to explain your opinion because your reasoning is not racist and you are not ashamed of it.


But it is an opinion, not a fact. People are allowed to think other people are more important than MLK. They are allowed to have a choice without being told their racist.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 13:29     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Seems like another interesting story. Wish he could take dirty Diana and send the Isis executioners to hell.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 13:24     Subject: American Sniper
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2915700/2915700-Meet-American-sniper-earned-nickname-Reaper-killing-30-insurgents-four-months.html


what about this guy- African American sniper named the "Reaper"
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 13:19     Subject: Re:American Sniper
Well, OP, looks like you got a lot of validation about their inability to see nuance.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 12:26     Subject: American Sniper
Anonymous wrote:This thread derailed when someone said you are a racist if you don't think MLK is more important than Kyle. Not only are you comparing apples to oranges but you can not use racism if a white person's opinion is different than yours. No one here said MLK is a fake, they prefer segregation, etc... THAT is racism. Not thinking Kyle is more important to them at this time.

If I am white am I not allowed to say Larry Bird is better than Michael Jorda? 99% of the country could disagree with me but it does not mean I am racist. If I said "I don't think blank people should be in basketball." That is racist.

Why people can't understand the difference is why race is brought into every news story.



The conservative poster brought in mlk.

And if you thought Larry Bird was better, you would probably point out some relevant fact like his rebounds per game or how he created more scoring opportunities for his teammates. You wouldn't hesitate to explain your opinion because your reasoning is not racist and you are not ashamed of it.
Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 11:44     Subject: American Sniper
This thread derailed when someone said you are a racist if you don't think MLK is more important than Kyle. Not only are you comparing apples to oranges but you can not use racism if a white person's opinion is different than yours. No one here said MLK is a fake, they prefer segregation, etc... THAT is racism. Not thinking Kyle is more important to them at this time.

If I am white am I not allowed to say Larry Bird is better than Michael Jorda? 99% of the country could disagree with me but it does not mean I am racist. If I said "I don't think blank people should be in basketball." That is racist.

Why people can't understand the difference is why race is brought into every news story.

Anonymous
Post 01/24/2015 11:21     Subject: Re:American Sniper
There are different kind of heroes and many have flaws. I think what was sad to people was the idea that Chris Kyle shouldn't speak of his experiences. Like being an effective soldier - which can involve killing - is something to button down or not speak about. A lot of us have a problem with self aggradizement, but it seemed like a lot of folks here were simply uncomfortable with what hes known for, being a successful sniper. That taps into this strange meme of the 21st century that war should somehow be sanitized/not.involve killing. For a lot of us with loved ones in the military, it makes us worry they are being asked to do an effective job with one hand behind their back: Set up to fail. I can support my family's service, but only if they are supported in turn.
So.in short, for many of us the movie was a big bundle - a chance to talk about it, a chance to respect exemplary service, a chance to recognize that to win wars can involve deep ethical questions like killing to stop killers. But if we aren't willing to do that as a nation, we simply shouldn't be at war. So I welcome when each war is scrutinized, talked about - but when we as a nation send people to war for crying out loud you may question the war but support the mandated actions they take to do their job effectively...