Anonymous
02/21/2013 10:59
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:NP. AA parent here and I am fine with my son dating a non-AA. However, I do not want rejects from other races. Most of the white women I know who exclusively pursue AA men do so because they are not waif thin and AA culture has different norms as far as what is physically attractive. Please make note of the use of the word, "exclusively." I call it the Kim K theory - Kim K was too curvy for white men in her social bracket and too lazy to lose the weight/starve herself so she went for men who found her most attractive. As long as my son gets the best, brightest, blondest, skinniest educated Becky from a family who matches our SES, I am good. That goes for any other race as well.
so you have bought into the current european preference for skinny girls? Or you care more about having something prestigious than what you really actually like? or you want your son to have what you like instead of what he likes? What if he likes a more renaissance figure? or did he tell you he is into skinny girls?
Anonymous
02/21/2013 10:29
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
PP here who started the "Shaquanda" discussion.
AGAIN- the question was not answered. The reason I asked the question was to see if an AA mother would be so against her son dating a white woman that she would rather have an uneducated balck woman just because she was black.
The question was NOT answered which makes me assume that an AA woman would ratehr have her son date ANY AA woman over a white woman just because of skin color which is quite frankly disgusting.
Now if I am incorrect then please post your response to the contrary but I have asked the question multiple times and no answer was given. Its not an asinine or ignorant question...it actually it quite interesting that no AA woman will answer it. And again I believe its because they do not want to admit it.
AGAIN- the question was not answered. The reason I asked the question was to see if an AA mother would be so against her son dating a white woman that she would rather have an uneducated balck woman just because she was black.
The question was NOT answered which makes me assume that an AA woman would ratehr have her son date ANY AA woman over a white woman just because of skin color which is quite frankly disgusting.
Now if I am incorrect then please post your response to the contrary but I have asked the question multiple times and no answer was given. Its not an asinine or ignorant question...it actually it quite interesting that no AA woman will answer it. And again I believe its because they do not want to admit it.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 10:21
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would be okay with my white daughter dating an Asian American guy. I would be okay with her dating a Latino guy.
I would not be okay with her dating a Muslim guy, a Jewish guy, or a fundie/evangelical Christian guy, regardless of race. I would not be okay with her dating a guy who is from the Middle East or Central Asia. I would not be okay with her dating an Indian guy. I would not be okay with her dating an African American guy.
This sounds like an honest response. My honest follow up question is why do you draw these distinctions? Why okay an Asian American and Latino, but not all those others?
Not the pp, but I think the commonality here is how those cultures treat women.
This is a gross over-generalization, of course. And the secular Jewish guy doesn't really fit the category. But, the rest of them in general represent cultures where women are regarded by men as second-class and, in some cases, treated even worse. (Muslims = Burkhas, don't educate girls; fundie Jewish/Christian -- women are subservant; Middle East and Central Asia -- horrible women's rights records; Indians -- gender-based infanticide, horrible treatment of women; African-American: Women as bitches and hos, etc).
Again, the danger of stereotyping is real, but these are real concerns that I'd have as the parent of daughters. It might depend on how Americanized the family is.
Thanks for your honesty. Interesting that this "gross over generalization" has not created the same outrage as the Becky comments that PP made. Go figure. I would ask you to define "Americanized" for me though. I suspect that your definition will skew towards a White American focus.
You mention that AA culture treats women as bitches and hoes but the AA women on here prefer that their AA sons marry AA women. So clearly, that stereotype is not something that they feel is relevant. Perhaps people are buying into the media and entertainment portrayal of AA's (and minorities) and embracing the worst examples as truth for all - which is one of the points the AA women were making. (There are reasons that most educated AA's hate today's rappers and this is one of the primary reasons - they are modern day minstrels) But the PP was somewhat clever in that in her Becky post, she turned that negative stereotype/generalization around. She used a specific type of White person as a generalization for all White people. And a couple White people bit on it. I cannot speak for her, but what I think she was trying to do was show by example why the whole Shanequa (sp) line of discussion was so insulting.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 09:42
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:NP. AA parent here and I am fine with my son dating a non-AA. However, I do not want rejects from other races. Most of the white women I know who exclusively pursue AA men do so because they are not waif thin and AA culture has different norms as far as what is physically attractive. Please make note of the use of the word, "exclusively." I call it the Kim K theory - Kim K was too curvy for white men in her social bracket and too lazy to lose the weight/starve herself so she went for men who found her most attractive. As long as my son gets the best, brightest, blondest, skinniest educated Becky from a family who matches our SES, I am good. That goes for any other race as well.
No, SES of the family is not as important to me with an AA woman as long as she is smart and headed in the right direction academically and eventually professionally. Think Claire Huxtable. Dr. Cliff Huxtable (Bill Cosby) was from a long line of affluent, educated AAs and it always seemed that Claire was from a normal middle class upbringing. Fine, because she went to Hillman (think Howard, Hampton, Morehouse or Spelman) and then law school, after which she became a successful practicing attorney. AA culture is a little bit different from mainstream in that we do not entirely correlate SES of the family with class. There are other ways we measure that which allows for a bit more movement through the ranks, if you will. Race is very central to the identity of AAs and to our experiences as US citizens. If you are a minority you probably understand. So having to bring a person into your SES versus having to bring a person into your SES and get them to understand your race are two very different things.
At the end of the day, you can take Shaqueena our whatever made up name was referenced earlier out of "the hood" and she can assimilate, educate and move up within the AA community. On the other hand, you can take Becky out of the trailor but you aren't getting the trailor out of Becky. I welcome any upper class (not just high SES - two different things guys) parent to let me know if I am wrong and you truly are letting Becky marry into your family.
Bi-racial PP here. I do not agree with you 100% but you do make some good points - the Kim K theory is a hoot. But I bet you $100 that you will be criticized because people will only see your Becky comments.
Some Whites do focus more on "where are you now," "what does your father do," "what school did you attend" and "what family are you from" as ranking factors. Some AA's of certain SES do also. But I do agree with you generally that AA's are more willing to emphasize "potential" as a high priority ranking factor if the SES does not match up.
But I also think that one big thing people are missing is that if a person dates/marries someone of another race or culture they will have to assimilate somewhat and at least have a working knowledge and acceptance of their mate's cultural norms. Because of my racial make-up, I have been forced to float back and forth. In my experience, Blacks in interracial relationships are more willing and able to assimilate than vice versa.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 09:24
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
This has been a fascinating thread.
I read this
and found myself completely agreeing. I wouldn't want my kids to marry someone with very different traditions, cultures and values simply because it can create additional challenges in a marriage. And marriage is challenging enough when you marry someone very much like yourself. I say this as someone who has been married 25 years. To me, it's not about race as much as it is culture. I dated a guy from New Jersey and my grandmother told me flat out that it would never work. He was "too yankee". His values and traditions were just too different. At the time I thought she was nuts. Looking back, I can easily see how it could create conflict. We were raised very, very differently. Our traditions were different. Our values were different. We were just very different.
On the flip side, my son is engaged to an Asian girl. But, she was adopted. Her parents are very much like us. She was raised very similar to the way my son was raised. It's not about race as much as it is values, culture, religion, and traditions. We can pretend those things don't matter, but they do when you are talking about spending the rest of your life with someone.
Why add additional challenges to the already complicated world of relationships and marriage?
I read this
It's not about pandering to ILs for me. It's about having cohesion in my family; a continuation of culture, traditions, values, etc.
and found myself completely agreeing. I wouldn't want my kids to marry someone with very different traditions, cultures and values simply because it can create additional challenges in a marriage. And marriage is challenging enough when you marry someone very much like yourself. I say this as someone who has been married 25 years. To me, it's not about race as much as it is culture. I dated a guy from New Jersey and my grandmother told me flat out that it would never work. He was "too yankee". His values and traditions were just too different. At the time I thought she was nuts. Looking back, I can easily see how it could create conflict. We were raised very, very differently. Our traditions were different. Our values were different. We were just very different.
On the flip side, my son is engaged to an Asian girl. But, she was adopted. Her parents are very much like us. She was raised very similar to the way my son was raised. It's not about race as much as it is values, culture, religion, and traditions. We can pretend those things don't matter, but they do when you are talking about spending the rest of your life with someone.
Why add additional challenges to the already complicated world of relationships and marriage?
Anonymous
02/21/2013 09:23
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait, so you can take ghetto out of an AA female but a trailor park or poor white is that forever regardless of education, social skills and income? So you predefine and categorize whites for life but AA can move within SES and class? You really think SES equals classy and is only defined by income for whites?
That's the only thing you got from her post?
Not the pp but yes. Thats all I got from her post. An ignorant ridiuclous comment to further prove a bulllshit argument.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 09:21
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would be okay with my white daughter dating an Asian American guy. I would be okay with her dating a Latino guy.
I would not be okay with her dating a Muslim guy, a Jewish guy, or a fundie/evangelical Christian guy, regardless of race. I would not be okay with her dating a guy who is from the Middle East or Central Asia. I would not be okay with her dating an Indian guy. I would not be okay with her dating an African American guy.
This sounds like an honest response. My honest follow up question is why do you draw these distinctions? Why okay an Asian American and Latino, but not all those others?
Not the pp, but I think the commonality here is how those cultures treat women.
This is a gross over-generalization, of course. And the secular Jewish guy doesn't really fit the category. But, the rest of them in general represent cultures where women are regarded by men as second-class and, in some cases, treated even worse. (Muslims = Burkhas, don't educate girls; fundie Jewish/Christian -- women are subservant; Middle East and Central Asia -- horrible women's rights records; Indians -- gender-based infanticide, horrible treatment of women; African-American: Women as bitches and hos, etc).
Again, the danger of stereotyping is real, but these are real concerns that I'd have as the parent of daughters. It might depend on how Americanized the family is.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 09:20
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Wait, so you can take ghetto out of an AA female but a trailor park or poor white is that forever regardless of education, social skills and income? So you predefine and categorize whites for life but AA can move within SES and class? You really think SES equals classy and is only defined by income for whites?
That's the only thing you got from her post?
Anonymous
02/21/2013 09:15
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Wait, so you can take ghetto out of an AA female but a trailor park or poor white is that forever regardless of education, social skills and income? So you predefine and categorize whites for life but AA can move within SES and class? You really think SES equals classy and is only defined by income for whites?
I am just an AA. I don't make the rules for white people! Yes, I have been privy to enough conversation about how X married Y and what a step down, the parents were disappointed and still don't like her blah blah blah. About successful white women who make good money but come from humble beginnings! I would never be able to tell but somehow they can. It's the reason that some kids at Private X are playdate material and others are not. It is why Georgetown moms think Hill moms are obnoxious. Yes, I think that where you come from is much more of a factor than in the black community. I am not saying that it is never a factor for black people, but it is a smaller part of the equation. Many white parents have expressed that their child must date someone white of equal or greater SES - look through this thread, even. Why do you expect my son to cast out a woman from the ghetto but embrace a white woman who is second class to you, who you stereotype and make the butt of jokes? I didn't see any white parents defending Shaqueena, btw. Well, Shaqueena, here is your out. Get your education and move up because YOU CAN. Becky, please know that your people constantly whisper behind your back, even in your 40s, 25+ years after you left the park. I am just an AA. And even I hear it. But I don't make the rules.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 07:41
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Wait, so you can take ghetto out of an AA female but a trailor park or poor white is that forever regardless of education, social skills and income? So you predefine and categorize whites for life but AA can move within SES and class? You really think SES equals classy and is only defined by income for whites?
Anonymous
02/21/2013 06:37
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:NP. AA parent here and I am fine with my son dating a non-AA. However, I do not want rejects from other races. Most of the white women I know who exclusively pursue AA men do so because they are not waif thin and AA culture has different norms as far as what is physically attractive. Please make note of the use of the word, "exclusively." I call it the Kim K theory - Kim K was too curvy for white men in her social bracket and too lazy to lose the weight/starve herself so she went for men who found her most attractive. As long as my son gets the best, brightest, blondest, skinniest educated Becky from a family who matches our SES, I am good. That goes for any other race as well.
No, SES of the family is not as important to me with an AA woman as long as she is smart and headed in the right direction academically and eventually professionally. Think Claire Huxtable. Dr. Cliff Huxtable (Bill Cosby) was from a long line of affluent, educated AAs and it always seemed that Claire was from a normal middle class upbringing. Fine, because she went to Hillman (think Howard, Hampton, Morehouse or Spelman) and then law school, after which she became a successful practicing attorney. AA culture is a little bit different from mainstream in that we do not entirely correlate SES of the family with class. There are other ways we measure that which allows for a bit more movement through the ranks, if you will. Race is very central to the identity of AAs and to our experiences as US citizens. If you are a minority you probably understand. So having to bring a person into your SES versus having to bring a person into your SES and get them to understand your race are two very different things.
At the end of the day, you can take Shaqueena our whatever made up name was referenced earlier out of "the hood" and she can assimilate, educate and move up within the AA community. On the other hand, you can take Becky out of the trailor but you aren't getting the trailor out of Becky. I welcome any upper class (not just high SES - two different things guys) parent to let me know if I am wrong and you truly are letting Becky marry into your family.
Django Unchained, Dating Edition. This guy makes me sick.
Anonymous
02/21/2013 01:38
Subject: Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
NP. AA parent here and I am fine with my son dating a non-AA. However, I do not want rejects from other races. Most of the white women I know who exclusively pursue AA men do so because they are not waif thin and AA culture has different norms as far as what is physically attractive. Please make note of the use of the word, "exclusively." I call it the Kim K theory - Kim K was too curvy for white men in her social bracket and too lazy to lose the weight/starve herself so she went for men who found her most attractive. As long as my son gets the best, brightest, blondest, skinniest educated Becky from a family who matches our SES, I am good. That goes for any other race as well.
No, SES of the family is not as important to me with an AA woman as long as she is smart and headed in the right direction academically and eventually professionally. Think Claire Huxtable. Dr. Cliff Huxtable (Bill Cosby) was from a long line of affluent, educated AAs and it always seemed that Claire was from a normal middle class upbringing. Fine, because she went to Hillman (think Howard, Hampton, Morehouse or Spelman) and then law school, after which she became a successful practicing attorney. AA culture is a little bit different from mainstream in that we do not entirely correlate SES of the family with class. There are other ways we measure that which allows for a bit more movement through the ranks, if you will. Race is very central to the identity of AAs and to our experiences as US citizens. If you are a minority you probably understand. So having to bring a person into your SES versus having to bring a person into your SES and get them to understand your race are two very different things.
At the end of the day, you can take Shaqueena our whatever made up name was referenced earlier out of "the hood" and she can assimilate, educate and move up within the AA community. On the other hand, you can take Becky out of the trailor but you aren't getting the trailor out of Becky. I welcome any upper class (not just high SES - two different things guys) parent to let me know if I am wrong and you truly are letting Becky marry into your family.
No, SES of the family is not as important to me with an AA woman as long as she is smart and headed in the right direction academically and eventually professionally. Think Claire Huxtable. Dr. Cliff Huxtable (Bill Cosby) was from a long line of affluent, educated AAs and it always seemed that Claire was from a normal middle class upbringing. Fine, because she went to Hillman (think Howard, Hampton, Morehouse or Spelman) and then law school, after which she became a successful practicing attorney. AA culture is a little bit different from mainstream in that we do not entirely correlate SES of the family with class. There are other ways we measure that which allows for a bit more movement through the ranks, if you will. Race is very central to the identity of AAs and to our experiences as US citizens. If you are a minority you probably understand. So having to bring a person into your SES versus having to bring a person into your SES and get them to understand your race are two very different things.
At the end of the day, you can take Shaqueena our whatever made up name was referenced earlier out of "the hood" and she can assimilate, educate and move up within the AA community. On the other hand, you can take Becky out of the trailor but you aren't getting the trailor out of Becky. I welcome any upper class (not just high SES - two different things guys) parent to let me know if I am wrong and you truly are letting Becky marry into your family.
Anonymous
02/20/2013 22:14
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Then why did you write "Pandering to ILs for acceptance does not sit well with me . . ."?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not saying that a white woman could not make a suitable partner for my son; I'm saying I don't want one to do so. It's very possible that white ILs can be absolutely accepting of the relationship, but I'd rather not take a chance and see how it all shakes out. Pandering to ILs for acceptance does not sit well with me and my son is too good to have to prove himself to anyone in that way.
The lack of self-awareness is just stunning. In one breath, you worry about in-laws being accepting, and in the next display the very lack of acceptance about which you worry. Unbelievable.
And if you think marrying a black woman will insulate your son from having to pander and prove himself to judgmental, narrow-minded inlaws, you're nuts. If you need examples of how those types of folks are found in all races and colors, take a look at the numerous examples in this thread. Or just look in a mirror.
I'm sorry if my reality is different from yours, but unless you are a minority in America, you simply can't relate. That's not a bad thing...it just means you shouldn't take offense about things that do not concern you personally.
It's not about pandering to ILs for me. It's about having cohesion in my family; a continuation of culture, traditions, values, etc.
Also, "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" is the last refuge of someone who has no actual support for her position.
AMEN!
+1!!!
Let me guess...responses by white people? I'm sorry, but it's true and this thread is evidence of that fact. I have plenty of support for my position and have explained it throughout this thread. You just don't agree with it and have closed your ears to it. That's not my problem.
And yet, our "default" responses about your negative attitude are as a result of being "butt-hurt". riiiiiiiight.
I have no negative attitude. Why are you so pissed about my personal opinion? Have you expressed similar outrage by other posters on this thread like:
-the white people who've said they wouldn't be comfortable with a non-white DIL/SIL
-the Jewish people who've said they wouldn't be comfortable with a non-Jewish DIL/SIL
-the Irish Catholic people who've said they wouldn't be comfortable with a non-Jewish DIL/SIL
Why are you only choosing to take offense when black people dare to say something similar?
First, this doesn't make sense. Second, the Irish Catholic poster made clear she was being ironic.
It makes plenty of sense, but whatever. Go attack 18:12 and get off my back.
Anonymous
02/20/2013 21:04
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Then why did you write "Pandering to ILs for acceptance does not sit well with me . . ."?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not saying that a white woman could not make a suitable partner for my son; I'm saying I don't want one to do so. It's very possible that white ILs can be absolutely accepting of the relationship, but I'd rather not take a chance and see how it all shakes out. Pandering to ILs for acceptance does not sit well with me and my son is too good to have to prove himself to anyone in that way.
The lack of self-awareness is just stunning. In one breath, you worry about in-laws being accepting, and in the next display the very lack of acceptance about which you worry. Unbelievable.
And if you think marrying a black woman will insulate your son from having to pander and prove himself to judgmental, narrow-minded inlaws, you're nuts. If you need examples of how those types of folks are found in all races and colors, take a look at the numerous examples in this thread. Or just look in a mirror.
I'm sorry if my reality is different from yours, but unless you are a minority in America, you simply can't relate. That's not a bad thing...it just means you shouldn't take offense about things that do not concern you personally.
It's not about pandering to ILs for me. It's about having cohesion in my family; a continuation of culture, traditions, values, etc.
Also, "It's a black thing, you wouldn't understand" is the last refuge of someone who has no actual support for her position.
AMEN!
+1!!!
Let me guess...responses by white people? I'm sorry, but it's true and this thread is evidence of that fact. I have plenty of support for my position and have explained it throughout this thread. You just don't agree with it and have closed your ears to it. That's not my problem.
And yet, our "default" responses about your negative attitude are as a result of being "butt-hurt". riiiiiiiight.
I have no negative attitude. Why are you so pissed about my personal opinion? Have you expressed similar outrage by other posters on this thread like:
-the white people who've said they wouldn't be comfortable with a non-white DIL/SIL
-the Jewish people who've said they wouldn't be comfortable with a non-Jewish DIL/SIL
-the Irish Catholic people who've said they wouldn't be comfortable with a non-Jewish DIL/SIL
Why are you only choosing to take offense when black people dare to say something similar?
First, this doesn't make sense. Second, the Irish Catholic poster made clear she was being ironic.
Anonymous
02/20/2013 20:28
Subject: Re:Would you be okay with your daughter dating a boy from a different race?
Anonymous wrote:I would be okay with my white daughter dating an Asian American guy. I would be okay with her dating a Latino guy.
I would not be okay with her dating a Muslim guy, a Jewish guy, or a fundie/evangelical Christian guy, regardless of race. I would not be okay with her dating a guy who is from the Middle East or Central Asia. I would not be okay with her dating an Indian guy. I would not be okay with her dating an African American guy.
This sounds like an honest response. My honest follow up question is why do you draw these distinctions? Why okay an Asian American and Latino, but not all those others?