Anonymous
Post 02/09/2013 08:38     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The CogAT is an ability test, meant to measure ability, not knowledge. It has nothing to do with the SAT and the ACT, which are subject matter tests.

"Prepping/Scamming the Cogat" = the practice of showing children ability test question types that the children are not supposed to see until the day of the test.

CoGAT test prep consists of courses or books that involve practicing over and over again the types of questions that a child can expect to see on the CoGAT.

"Hard work, study and preparation" have nothing to do with this test. The company even says that the scores are not reliable if a child takes it twice within a certain length of time: that is because a child will get a higher score simply because of familiarity with the test format. Just think how unreliable the score is if the child has been doing the questions over and over again for months.






It comes down to, do I want to sacrifice my DC for the sake of the test's reliability over 13,000 takers, 95 percent of whom will fall below the cutoff. Not interested, looking out for number one. Sorry to the purists. Seen too many episodes of Breaking Bad I guess.


Prepping affects the reliability of the results of the individual prepped test taker, no one else. The score reflects a false result because it is no longer measuring what it is meant to gauge. It is giving an impression of the test taker that is not true.

I don't know what Breaking Bad is, I assume a television show, but we don't watch that much TV at my house.






Anonymous
Post 02/09/2013 08:08     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
So, your goal is to force your round peg into a square hole no metter what it takes. Step back and think about what message that,sends to your child, and what it does to her when she can't fulfill your dreams.
Anonymous
Post 02/09/2013 01:57     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:The CogAT is an ability test, meant to measure ability, not knowledge. It has nothing to do with the SAT and the ACT, which are subject matter tests.

"Prepping/Scamming the Cogat" = the practice of showing children ability test question types that the children are not supposed to see until the day of the test.

CoGAT test prep consists of courses or books that involve practicing over and over again the types of questions that a child can expect to see on the CoGAT.

"Hard work, study and preparation" have nothing to do with this test. The company even says that the scores are not reliable if a child takes it twice within a certain length of time: that is because a child will get a higher score simply because of familiarity with the test format. Just think how unreliable the score is if the child has been doing the questions over and over again for months.






It comes down to, do I want to sacrifice my DC for the sake of the test's reliability over 13,000 takers, 95 percent of whom will fall below the cutoff. Not interested, looking out for number one. Sorry to the purists. Seen too many episodes of Breaking Bad I guess.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 21:50     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
The CogAT is an ability test, meant to measure ability, not knowledge. It has nothing to do with the SAT and the ACT, which are subject matter tests.

"Prepping/Scamming the Cogat" = the practice of showing children ability test question types that the children are not supposed to see until the day of the test.

CoGAT test prep consists of courses or books that involve practicing over and over again the types of questions that a child can expect to see on the CoGAT.

"Hard work, study and preparation" have nothing to do with this test. The company even says that the scores are not reliable if a child takes it twice within a certain length of time: that is because a child will get a higher score simply because of familiarity with the test format. Just think how unreliable the score is if the child has been doing the questions over and over again for months.




Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 21:22     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
The only reason why some folk think people are scamming the cogAT is because the company's major revenue stream may dry up if Public School systems eliminate this test because students are doing exceeding well due to hard work, study and preparation. CogAT does not like this. But the rest of us should like that students are mastering an educational exercise. This is good neuronal exercise. This is a good thing.

The College Board may not like it as well as many colleges are increasing making the SAT an optional requirement. And the ACT has made alot of gains over the last 2 decades.

Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 21:11     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
The reality is that there are businesses that make money providing test prep. They would like to start working with their customers at an early age, so they would like parents to send their first and second graders to prep for the ability tests that are only a part of the AAP selection process. And some children will do better on these tests because they have practiced and practiced questions ahead of time that they were supposed to see for the first time on test day.
But the teachers still fill out the GBRS so that the committee will get a view of how the child behaves in the classroom on a day to day basis. Yes, some borderline students will be in the program who would be fine in a regular classroom, but overall, I don't think test prep will boost an average child's score to the highly or profoundly gifted level. I do think that those who make money selling test prep would like you to think it can make an average child a genius.

(Eventually these children will realize that their parents were encouraging them to do something the schools had asked them not to do. That realization will have some affect on the child's developing sense of integrity and honesty.)


I think free enterprise is great and I also think that consumers should know what they are spending their hard-earned money on. Lots of businesses sell products that are not worthwhile, so consumers have the right to do research before spending money. If a product is not worth their money then their money is wasted. Even if I were the richest person on earth, I would not want to waste my money. This particular product (test prep for the cognitive ability tests) has been noted by the school system as one they prefer parents not use.




Original poster here. By works, I mean it worked for us. My kids did well on the CoGats, and NNAT, both of which we prepped for with commercially available materials. We used multiple sources and spend a good bit of time practicing, not just the weekend before. No, I have not done a double blind study to determine if this was the definitive reason they made it into the program. There are other factors, I agree. However, if FF County deemed it sufficient enough to change the test, then we fall into the category of those who apparently are benefiting enough to necessitate the steps that they took.

Now looking back, I can say I am glad that we prepped and gave our kids the best chance for admission to the program. They are doing great and enjoying it. Had they not made it, I am certain they would be bored and restless in general ed. So for us, the ends definitely justified the means.


Here's the original post:

I think the teachers should ask students individually f they have seen tests like "this" before and make a note of the ones who answer yes, and that info should be in the composite file. Very useful for screening out the borderline cases. Flame away.


Why did you suggest teachers should find out if kids prepped if you did it with your own kids? The OP appears to be suggesting that people are "scamming" the CogAT.



Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 20:43     Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
+ 1

Never trust a teacher who tells you not to study for a test used to determine whether you get a challenging education or join the masses in falling further behind in life.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 20:43     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
DC's friend was not prepped for NNAT and received an avg score. Was prepped for Cogat and just got past the cutoff last year. I feel the GBRS was somewhat inflated due to parent involvement in school - perhaps I'm wrong. Got into AAP. That's the way it works sometimes.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 20:29     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
All educators should follow your path. Afteral,l the goal of our schools should be to ensure kids are getting the most out of their ability and working to their potential. In that regard, students should learn early the importance of hard work, study and preparation for all their studies and tests. Only with longstanding hard work and preparation will students continue to stimulate and challenge themselves. This is the goal -- not tracking kids at 4 to 8 years of life and condemning them to a miserable and unchallenging education.

Most of this crowd have missed the boat. They are more concerned about another well deserving child taking their snowflake's preordained spot. It's called hard work ... not cheating. Some students are capable of this, others prefer lacrosse, no homework and long vacations.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 20:10     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
The reality is that there are businesses that make money providing test prep. They would like to start working with their customers at an early age, so they would like parents to send their first and second graders to prep for the ability tests that are only a part of the AAP selection process. And some children will do better on these tests because they have practiced and practiced questions ahead of time that they were supposed to see for the first time on test day.
But the teachers still fill out the GBRS so that the committee will get a view of how the child behaves in the classroom on a day to day basis. Yes, some borderline students will be in the program who would be fine in a regular classroom, but overall, I don't think test prep will boost an average child's score to the highly or profoundly gifted level. I do think that those who make money selling test prep would like you to think it can make an average child a genius.

(Eventually these children will realize that their parents were encouraging them to do something the schools had asked them not to do. That realization will have some affect on the child's developing sense of integrity and honesty.)


This is America, the land of the free and free enterprise. What do you have against businesses making money providing test prep? There are businesses in America BIG money off sex, alcohol, guns and tobacco. These businesses, too, start working with their customers at an early age. All above board, legal and good for your economy.

Fault the schools for the bureaucratic leaders for the emergence of tracking (prison sentence for young and developing students) tests.

And the GODS fill out GBRS forms that tell the rea truth. Alice do you really think teachers are gods and are not susceptible to ass kissing and preconceived notions, not to mention gifts (bribes) howered to them from parents like yourself. I'm sure you never have experienced a teacher like this.

Kids study hard, work hard, prepare and take as many practise tests and exercises as your heart delights. Alice in Wonderland is on drugs.


I think free enterprise is great and I also think that consumers should know what they are spending their hard-earned money on. Lots of businesses sell products that are not worthwhile, so consumers have the right to do research before spending money. If a product is not worth their money then their money is wasted. Even if I were the richest person on earth, I would not want to waste my money. This particular product (test prep for the cognitive ability tests) has been noted by the school system as one they prefer parents not use.

No one has referred to teachers as gods, but they have the experience of seeing many students over time and can note which students learn new subject matter quickly and easily. More than one teacher fills out the GBRS so more than one set of (admittedly human) eyes has observed the students.

Do you really think that a lot of children read this board? Parents seem to be the main users of this board.



You are confusing two notions, I can say from experience with two kids, the product does work and worth every penny I paid for it.


It is not a certainty that your kids are in AAP because of test prep for a second grade ability test. Maybe they're bright kids.

By "works," do you mean that the product enables students to get higher scores than they would have without the product? Maybe they'll get higher scores if they are practicing types of questions that they are not supposed to see until the day of the test. But then the test will not be measuring what it is meant to measure, will it? The school is looking for a measurement of how well children respond to types of challenges they have not seen before. It is interesting that FCPS has made changes to the second grade test this year.

The tests are only one part of the selection process. Lots of kids are in AAP without having to engage in activities they've been asked not to do.



Original poster here. By works, I mean it worked for us. My kids did well on the CoGats, and NNAT, both of which we prepped for with commercially available materials. We used multiple sources and spend a good bit of time practicing, not just the weekend before. No, I have not done a double blind study to determine if this was the definitive reason they made it into the program. There are other factors, I agree. However, if FF County deemed it sufficient enough to change the test, then we fall into the category of those who apparently are benefiting enough to necessitate the steps that they took.

Now looking back, I can say I am glad that we prepped and gave our kids the best chance for admission to the program. They are doing great and enjoying it. Had they not made it, I am certain they would be bored and restless in general ed. So for us, the ends definitely justified the means.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 17:04     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
FCPS staff members chose to administer the custom form of the CogAT this year after it came to our attention that some students, in previous years, had prepared for the CogAT using the exact form of the CogAT being administered in FCPS.


This is the kind of test prep people have been discussing for all these many pages.



Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 16:42     Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Only according to you Webster
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 16:21     Subject: Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
It's the definition in the context of this thread's title.
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 15:59     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Definition of preparation is too narrow
Anonymous
Post 02/08/2013 15:19     Subject: Re:Prepping/Scamming the Cogat
Anonymous wrote:
You may want to start a different thread for this information. This thread is about the practice of showing children ability test question types that the children are not supposed to see until the day of the test.


Wrong. The thread is about "prepping/scamming the Cogat" and has taking many directions.

Thanks for the advise though. I am not starting a different thread.


"Prepping/Scamming the Cogat" = the practice of showing children ability test question types that the children are not supposed to see until the day of the test.

CoGAT test prep consists of courses or books that involve practicing over and over again the types of questions that a child can expect to see on the CoGAT.