Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! Is this really what you think of Jews? That they all get plastic surgery because they think they look ethnic? I can guaranty you that there are more non-Jews who get plastic surgery because hey hate the way they look. Jews do not claim to be superior. Christians do. If Jews continue to diversify--marry out of their religion-- there won't be many Jews left in this world. Jews are very accepting of other races, religions and cultures. Always have been and always will be. Jews played a huge role in the civil rights movement, for example. I grew up as a Jew among a neighborhood of Catholics, who referred to me as "you people." I don't have a particular desire to hang out with people who refer to me and others in my religion as "you people." Perhaps this question about diversifying should be asked of Christians and Catholics.

You realize that Jews do not have the market cornered on this phenomenon, right. In fact, it has been commented on in th emain stream press that Blonde hair (real, not bleached) will likely become exceedingly rare and almost extinct within a few generations if the marriage trends continue as they are. Does that mean no non-blonde should be allowed to marry a real blonde?

Of course not because that would be labled a racist and elitist policy. So why is it any different for Jews?

Second pont: the Jews decided that only those children born to Jewish WOMEN are hereditarily Jewish. So, change the rule. Then you wont have to worry so much.

The rule was changed. It used to be patrilineal descent.

Since the Jews accepted the laws of the torah, the rule has always been matrilineal decent. If you are referring to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the time of patrilineal decent, althought they are considered the forefathers of the Jewish nation, the Jews did not actually become a nation until they received the Torah at Mt. Sinai, so their situation does not dictate how the religion defines Jews.

According to traditional Jewish law, a Jew is someone who is born to a Jewish mother or who converts through the proper methods. Recently, Reform (and maybe Reconstructionist?) Judaism has permitted patrilineal descent as a valid manner of defining a Jew.

The matrilineal descent thing was about making sure at least one parent was Jewish. If Dad said it was his kid, you could never be sure. If Mom said so, it was a gimme. There's nothing mystical about mom v. dad in Jewish tradition. It was just practical in an era when (1) descent really mattered, (2) men fucked around as a matter of course, and (3) paternity testing was rather primitive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! Is this really what you think of Jews? That they all get plastic surgery because they think they look ethnic? I can guaranty you that there are more non-Jews who get plastic surgery because hey hate the way they look. Jews do not claim to be superior. Christians do. If Jews continue to diversify--marry out of their religion-- there won't be many Jews left in this world. Jews are very accepting of other races, religions and cultures. Always have been and always will be. Jews played a huge role in the civil rights movement, for example. I grew up as a Jew among a neighborhood of Catholics, who referred to me as "you people." I don't have a particular desire to hang out with people who refer to me and others in my religion as "you people." Perhaps this question about diversifying should be asked of Christians and Catholics.

You realize that Jews do not have the market cornered on this phenomenon, right. In fact, it has been commented on in th emain stream press that Blonde hair (real, not bleached) will likely become exceedingly rare and almost extinct within a few generations if the marriage trends continue as they are. Does that mean no non-blonde should be allowed to marry a real blonde?

Of course not because that would be labled a racist and elitist policy. So why is it any different for Jews?

Second pont: the Jews decided that only those children born to Jewish WOMEN are hereditarily Jewish. So, change the rule. Then you wont have to worry so much.

The rule was changed. It used to be patrilineal descent.

Since the Jews accepted the laws of the torah, the rule has always been matrilineal decent. If you are referring to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the time of patrilineal decent, althought they are considered the forefathers of the Jewish nation, the Jews did not actually become a nation until they received the Torah at Mt. Sinai, so their situation does not dictate how the religion defines Jews.

According to traditional Jewish law, a Jew is someone who is born to a Jewish mother or who converts through the proper methods. Recently, Reform (and maybe Reconstructionist?) Judaism has permitted patrilineal descent as a valid manner of defining a Jew.

Anonymous wrote:This is kind of complicated. I'm a non-practicing Catholic. I found out recently that my paternal grandmother was born to two Jewish parents who came to America and concealed their identities as Jews. My paternal grandmother was not raised as a Jew, obviously, though both her parents had been raised as jews before they came to America.

Would you consider my dad jewish?

What about his sister's children?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow! Is this really what you think of Jews? That they all get plastic surgery because they think they look ethnic? I can guaranty you that there are more non-Jews who get plastic surgery because hey hate the way they look. Jews do not claim to be superior. Christians do. If Jews continue to diversify--marry out of their religion-- there won't be many Jews left in this world. Jews are very accepting of other races, religions and cultures. Always have been and always will be. Jews played a huge role in the civil rights movement, for example. I grew up as a Jew among a neighborhood of Catholics, who referred to me as "you people." I don't have a particular desire to hang out with people who refer to me and others in my religion as "you people." Perhaps this question about diversifying should be asked of Christians and Catholics.

You realize that Jews do not have the market cornered on this phenomenon, right. In fact, it has been commented on in th emain stream press that Blonde hair (real, not bleached) will likely become exceedingly rare and almost extinct within a few generations if the marriage trends continue as they are. Does that mean no non-blonde should be allowed to marry a real blonde?

Of course not because that would be labled a racist and elitist policy. So why is it any different for Jews?

Second pont: the Jews decided that only those children born to Jewish WOMEN are hereditarily Jewish. So, change the rule. Then you wont have to worry so much.

The rule was changed. It used to be patrilineal descent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't have thought you were anti-semitic, but I would have thoughy of the holocaust. I also thought of the holocaust when i saw a pile of dirty shoes at the end of a mud run I did.

I woldnt have been offended.

Good grief.
Piles of shoes are left at the entrance to many buddhist and hindu temples temples, too. Or at the doors of every house I ever entered in Japan.

And after visiting concentration camps in Poland, a pile of dirty shoes will always scream Holocaust to me. I specifically said I wouldnt be offended by it (in fact, when I saw them at the mud run, I made an inappropriate joke), but thats doesnt mean that it doesnt have that connotation for me.

Similarly, if I saw a yellow star of david, in any context, I would think holocaust. Again I wouldnt be offended, but perhaps my 86 y.o. grandfather who survived the camps would be taken aback.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't have thought you were anti-semitic, but I would have thoughy of the holocaust. I also thought of the holocaust when i saw a pile of dirty shoes at the end of a mud run I did.

I woldnt have been offended.

Good grief.
Piles of shoes are left at the entrance to many buddhist and hindu temples temples, too. Or at the doors of every house I ever entered in Japan.

Anonymous wrote:Wow! Is this really what you think of Jews? That they all get plastic surgery because they think they look ethnic? I can guaranty you that there are more non-Jews who get plastic surgery because hey hate the way they look. Jews do not claim to be superior. Christians do. If Jews continue to diversify--marry out of their religion-- there won't be many Jews left in this world. Jews are very accepting of other races, religions and cultures. Always have been and always will be. Jews played a huge role in the civil rights movement, for example. I grew up as a Jew among a neighborhood of Catholics, who referred to me as "you people." I don't have a particular desire to hang out with people who refer to me and others in my religion as "you people." Perhaps this question about diversifying should be asked of Christians and Catholics.

You realize that Jews do not have the market cornered on this phenomenon, right. In fact, it has been commented on in th emain stream press that Blonde hair (real, not bleached) will likely become exceedingly rare and almost extinct within a few generations if the marriage trends continue as they are. Does that mean no non-blonde should be allowed to marry a real blonde?

Of course not because that would be labled a racist and elitist policy. So why is it any different for Jews?

Second pont: the Jews decided that only those children born to Jewish WOMEN are hereditarily Jewish. So, change the rule. Then you wont have to worry so much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hitler made a movie explaining the "Jewish look." I think that says it all when it comes to describing a look as Jewish. It's out right bigotry. I don't care if you don't mean anything by it. If you tell me, " you don't look Jewish," I think that you are an anti Semitic ignoramus. Period.

He was a racist and hated Jews because they were of a different race, a race that he hated partly because of esthetics and partly because of culture. It had nothing to do with religion for him, he was an athiest. That sociopath was evil, we know, but that does not mean that there is no Jewish look. It is real, I just wish that more Jews could be proud of it.

There is a gay look, I just wish more fags, er, gay people, could be proud of it.

As they should be.
I am African American and I have heard my share of comments and putdowns about the way AAs look. The response to me is not to say there is no AA look! I spend much of my time trying to get my kids to be proud of their looks and accentuate all of the positives. I have noticed that many white ethnic minorities like Jews, Italians, and Greeks try to blend in rather than confront the issue. Yes, they have larger handsome noses, rich dark hair that is full of body, thick dark eyelashes, and beautiful summer tans!
I could tell Hitler about what is not so positive about the Aryan look, but I have no desire to sink that low.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But yes, now you have another "reason" to discourage your daughters from fraternizing with Jewish boys. We will laugh when at her, maybe after sex with a non-racist cousin, if she has one, when she gives voice to what you likely are teaching her.

I hope that she dates men who do not use such words or treat sex so lightly. If she marries a Jewish man, like her father, I hope that he is as gracious as her father.

It does sound like this PP somehow fetishizes Aryan-looking women-- not uncommon though I really think the many among our brothers who do this ought to unpack their issues a little. Not to mention that it's rather offensive to Jewish women and the mothers of Jewish girls.

No, it doesn't sound that way at all. The laugh was about the racist cousin being not particularly aryan and losing out on sex with the Jew -- after she expressed contempt for Jews -- to her aryan looking cousin. The word you are looking for is "irony," not "fetish."

If she was antisemitic, she would not see it as losing out. But I agree with pp, some issues need to be unpacked.

I do wonder about the great sensitivity this poster (or maybe) several posters have for a woman who, taking the OP at his word, was a racist.

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't have thought you were anti-semitic, but I would have thoughy of the holocaust. I also thought of the holocaust when i saw a pile of dirty shoes at the end of a mud run I did.

I woldnt have been offended.

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Anonymous wrote:OP,

I used to make Xmas cookies and I would bring some to the office. I made stars and trees usually. The star cookie cutter I had was a 6 pointed star. I liked it b/c it was a little different than the usual 5 point star. Anyway, I sprinkled the trees with green sprinkles and the stars with yellow sprinkles b/c stars have yellow light -- right?. My closest friends at the office were all Jewish. I never thought that the yellow sprinkles on the 6 point stars might have a negative connection to the Holocaust, but I think someone (might not have been someone at work) told me that it was a bad idea and offensive.

Would you be offended by Christmas cookies that are 6 point stars with yellow sprinkles on white frosting? Am I so clueless that I'm anti-semetic by accident?

http://history1900s.about.com/od/holocaust/a/yellowstar.htm

Yes, PP I AM aware of the yellow star of David being used during WWII to identify the Jews. I was aware of that at the time I made the cookies. I just never connected making Christmas cookies in the shape of a star with the Holocaust b/c I don't think about the Holocaust much. I just looked at it as a star cookie and I sprinkled it yellow b/c stars are yellow. My question is not whether yellow six-pointed stars are connected to the Holocaust, but whether OP (or others) would have made that connection upon seeing a plate of cookies -- some of which were trees sprinkled in green -- and whether OP (or others) would take offense at seeing said cookies.

I wouldn't describe you as racist so much as clueless. Yeah, yellow is a pretty color, and the sun is a star, and it's yellow, and 6 point stars are a nice change from 5 points, but then the yellow six-point star was used to mark 6 million or so Jews for gassing and burning. So yeah, if you don't see how using yellow 6 point stars as pretty Christmas decorations is insensitive, you are pretty fucking clueless.

The six-pointed star is called the "Star of Creation" in Christianity and is associated with the six days of creation. It is often used in religious paintings of Jesus to signify his divinity as part of the Holy Trinity. The star that appeared over Bethlehem is also often depicted as a six-pointed star for this reason. Our Christmas tree at church is topped by a six-pointed yellow star. I imagine that this is the reason that the PP found a Christmas cookie cutter with six points. Symbols can mean different things to different people and in different contexts, so I don't think it is necessary to call the PP "pretty fucking stupid" for using a well-known symbol of Christmas to celebrate Christmas.

The swastika has a long history of benevolent usage as well, eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Historical_use_in_the_East . It would be pretty fucking stupid to use a swastika and, again, if PP doesn't see why some Jews were offended by using the symbol used to mark Jews for extermination, she is pretty fucking clueless.

I really don't think comparison to the swastika is fair in this context since the swastika has been set aside by all cultures and religions because of its associations with Nazism. In contrast, the six-pointed star is still used by many cultures and religions, including most prominently Jews themselves, but also in Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But yes, now you have another "reason" to discourage your daughters from fraternizing with Jewish boys. We will laugh when at her, maybe after sex with a non-racist cousin, if she has one, when she gives voice to what you likely are teaching her.

I hope that she dates men who do not use such words or treat sex so lightly. If she marries a Jewish man, like her father, I hope that he is as gracious as her father.

It does sound like this PP somehow fetishizes Aryan-looking women-- not uncommon though I really think the many among our brothers who do this ought to unpack their issues a little. Not to mention that it's rather offensive to Jewish women and the mothers of Jewish girls.

No, it doesn't sound that way at all. The laugh was about the racist cousin being not particularly aryan and losing out on sex with the Jew -- after she expressed contempt for Jews -- to her aryan looking cousin. The word you are looking for is "irony," not "fetish."

If she was antisemitic, she would not see it as losing out. But I agree with pp, some issues need to be unpacked.