Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

And here is the correct link
[/url]https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2023.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031[url]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Compare the MCEA salary with the salaries for the Fed. Many Fed positions pay more than MCPS and many of the Fed positions that pay more don’t require a degree. I know someone who is an Admin assistant at FDA. Been there for 20+ years. Makes 140k and never spent a day in college.

Degree requirements are mostly relevant for entry-level positions. After 20+ years there's often going to be overriding factors and skills.

What you described as an admin assistant is likely an administrative officer, which have a great deal of responsibility and require special skills and training that you aren't going to get in college. Calling them office managers would be more accurate, but even that sells them short.

So yes, compare MCEA scales to the GS scales. While you're certainly going to be able to find some state/local/federal workers that make more money than teachers, those are the exceptions rather than the rule. Once you set aside STEM, law, and management positions, you're not going to find many feds making more than teachers at similar experience levels, after adjusting for the 10-month nature of the teaching positions.

+1

The media earnings for people with graduate or professional degrees in Montgomery County is $117k https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2023.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031

This includes lawyers, doctors, NPs, private practice therapists, feds with grad degrees etc. Most do not have pensions and most have much less generous health insurance. Most must undergo subjective performance reviews, and raises and promotions are based on the subjective, sometimes unfair, choices of their higher ups. Compensation is based on market demand. These are their 12 month earnings, not 10 month earnings.

The notion that everyone else with a masters is making $200k+ is flat out false. If you know someone without a college degree making $140k, that is great for them! They are not the norm and have likely beat out other people for promotions.

(That should say median earnings, not media earnings)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Compare the MCEA salary with the salaries for the Fed. Many Fed positions pay more than MCPS and many of the Fed positions that pay more don’t require a degree. I know someone who is an Admin assistant at FDA. Been there for 20+ years. Makes 140k and never spent a day in college.

Degree requirements are mostly relevant for entry-level positions. After 20+ years there's often going to be overriding factors and skills.

What you described as an admin assistant is likely an administrative officer, which have a great deal of responsibility and require special skills and training that you aren't going to get in college. Calling them office managers would be more accurate, but even that sells them short.

So yes, compare MCEA scales to the GS scales. While you're certainly going to be able to find some state/local/federal workers that make more money than teachers, those are the exceptions rather than the rule. Once you set aside STEM, law, and management positions, you're not going to find many feds making more than teachers at similar experience levels, after adjusting for the 10-month nature of the teaching positions.

+1

The media earnings for people with graduate or professional degrees in Montgomery County is $117k https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2023.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031

This includes lawyers, doctors, NPs, private practice therapists, feds with grad degrees etc. Most do not have pensions and most have much less generous health insurance. Most must undergo subjective performance reviews, and raises and promotions are based on the subjective, sometimes unfair, choices of their higher ups. Compensation is based on market demand. These are their 12 month earnings, not 10 month earnings.

The notion that everyone else with a masters is making $200k+ is flat out false. If you know someone without a college degree making $140k, that is great for them! They are not the norm and have likely beat out other people for promotions.

Anonymous wrote:Compare the MCEA salary with the salaries for the Fed. Many Fed positions pay more than MCPS and many of the Fed positions that pay more don’t require a degree. I know someone who is an Admin assistant at FDA. Been there for 20+ years. Makes 140k and never spent a day in college.

Degree requirements are mostly relevant for entry-level positions. After 20+ years there's often going to be overriding factors and skills.

What you described as an admin assistant is likely an administrative officer, which have a great deal of responsibility and require special skills and training that you aren't going to get in college. Calling them office managers would be more accurate, but even that sells them short.

So yes, compare MCEA scales to the GS scales. While you're certainly going to be able to find some state/local/federal workers that make more money than teachers, those are the exceptions rather than the rule. Once you set aside STEM, law, and management positions, you're not going to find many feds making more than teachers at similar experience levels, after adjusting for the 10-month nature of the teaching positions.

Compare the MCEA salary with the salaries for the Fed. Many Fed positions pay more than MCPS and many of the Fed positions that pay more don’t require a degree. I know someone who is an Admin assistant at FDA. Been there for 20+ years. Makes 140k and never spent a day in college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

+1000. The benefits suck now.

Incredibly out of touch. Jfc.

Incredibly ignorant. JFC.

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

What's wrong with Cigna PPO? Cigna has a pretty good network and the copays are pretty low.

What's exceptional, though, is the employee cost care. It's rare for the empployer to pay 83-88% of the premiums. That includes paying for 83% of vision and dental coverage. You're not going to see that many places. Feds, for instance, don't get subsidized dental or vision coverage. There are group plans, but employees have to pay the full premiums.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

I agree regarding workload, but teacher compensation is quite good compared to similar jobs. But remember, public sector professional jobs don't pay as well as the private sector, and liberal arts degrees don't pay as well as STEM or law.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

No. Stop pretending their benefits don't count. Their salaries are well in line with salaries of people with graduate degrees. And they have an expensive pension on top of that and very reasonable health insurance rates. Most people do not have those benefits as bad as some of you think they are.

The problem is working conditions. When I hear about teachers getting assaulted, I don't think if only their salaries were higher. They need to fix the working conditions. No amount of money is going to make long hours and lack of safety worth it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

This is true of many county employees, which is why they cannot fill the jobs anymore.

The jobs they have trouble filling are public safety jobs, which have a pension.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

This is true of many county employees, which is why they cannot fill the jobs anymore.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

+1000. The benefits suck now.

Incredibly out of touch. Jfc.

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

+1000. The benefits suck now.