Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you're back, why don't you fill us in on precisely how much baby and toddler parenting you're planning to do.

Not the majority but a reasonable amount that keeps both my wife and I happy.

Why, given that you are not working, would you not do 50%?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's equally reckless to delay dating and parenthood. What if you run out of time before you meet the right person?

I'm really not sure why you can't go on, say, one date every two weeks just to get started and practice relationship skills. FIRE women won't be expecting you to spend much.

Dating is expensive (both in terms of money and time)! The guys I know that are successful at it treat it like a part-time job.

Also, I think it’s going to be very difficult, if I do find the right person, to say, “Hey, I like you a lot. Let’s put a pin in this for five years—or tread water until then—and then we can move forward with our lives.” I think it just makes more sense to date when I can really commit to someone.

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP sounds ASD and at his age any kids are highly likely to be ASD. My spouse and I spend close to $60K per year JUST on therapies for our high functioning ASD kids. OP please don’t do this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

Ahhhh, so now you're wanting traditional gender roles, but you also want her to have earned a lot of money. So the traditional roles only start when you want them to?

If you made (really, your parents partly gave you) more money, does that mean she gets less leisure time than you, forever?

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t ask this question on a rich parenting board, the parents here all think you’re downright abusive if you don’t spoil the crap out of your kids or that your kids will somehow become damaged if they have to go without.

Not true, there are many poor families who spend practically nothing outside the bare necessities on their children and most turn out fine. There’s no reason why you need to sacrifice FIRE just because you had 2 kids especially if you front loaded wealth building and already have 7 figures by early 30’s. Private school and travel soccer are a HUGE f***ing waste of money and half those kids end up as useless drug addict trust fund babies by their late 20’s anyway. Just send them to state school, make them take out a bit of student loans, play rec league soccer. They don’t need more.

Many of those families have parents working multiple jobs just to make ends meet. On the other hand, telling your kids that they can’t participate in activities and depriving them of opportunities and educational advantages simply so that you can quit working at 40 and sit around playing guitar is flat out selfish and makes you a bad parent.

Yes, the kids will not have an amazing and fulfilling life like snobby dcum types.

Correct, they will have a working class life, but without the opportunities for scholarship and subsidies that are available to the children of actual working class parents.

Most parents hope to provide their children with a better life than they had…then there are those like op who couldn’t care less.

A better life like having someone else raise your kids and being a slave to the man sounds like a very nurturing environment.

I think a nice quality daycare sounds way better than being raised full-time by a man with a negative attitude, no flexibility, financial delusions, and an unwillingness to pay for anything fun.

A negative attitude means not being a cog in the system for some dirtbag boss who will fire you at the drop of a hat? No flexibility means doing literally whatever you want with the day’s time and not having to ask permission from another man to go on vacation? Financial delusion means thinking $2 million and a paid off condo is will sustain you in life?

Are you speaking about yourself or OP?

No, a negative attitude means thinking that all jobs are bad. Lots of people find jobs they like or are self-employed and are fine with it. Women want a man who, if family needs required it, would get a job and have a good attitude about doing what needs to be done. Not a whiny little baby who is convinced he can't possibly be happy if his preshus autonomy is even slightly limited.

OP is delusional because he thinks $90K per year is enough for a family of four.

Plenty of people live on $90k per year for a family of 4. It is absolutely doable. But it's rare that someone chooses that; the vast majority of the time it is because that's all the income they can access. That is what is so confounding about OP - he intends to thrush his yet to be identified wife, and yet to be born children, into a sub-optimal situation, with little to no backstop or safety net, because he doesn't want to work at ~40 years old, and would rather hike and play guitar.

Selfish isn't a strong enough word to describe this attitude.

$90,000 a year with no federal income tax because you’re drawing from capital gains is very different than $90,000 of income. For some reason a lot of PPs who are scolding OP don’t know basic tax policy.

You do pay federal taxes on Capital gains. They'd be paying 15%.

Fact is FIRE concept/retiring in your 30/40s when you have a family can be challenging. What if a kid has medical issues or learning issues that require major therapies? Do you really want to rely on "public services" or just the school system (hint: they often take forever to get services and do not supply as much as a kid really needs).
Do you really want to restrict your kid's activities, when you could afford more by simply having a job? Healthcare for a family or 3or 4 could be $15-20K per year with another $5-10K max OOP.

Having a job could bring that cost down to $300-400/month with a max $5K OOP.

And even in-State schools will be $60K/year in 20-25 years (when this guys kids would be attending). Cannot imagine denying my kids the opportunities to attend without much debt simply because I don't want to work.

If OP is married there is a $89,250 limit where capital gains withdrawals are taxed at 0% federally for married couples filing jointly. Google is your friend. Stop spreading disinformation. This cap will of course increase over time because if inflation.

As for all of your concerns, OP will be bringing home as much take home income as someone who is making $130,000+ when you factor in that they won’t be paying federal income tax or SS.

Making as much as someone with a 9-5 job where they make $130,000 + a having a paid off mortgage is not slumming it. It is literally having a top 10% lifestyle. It’s weird that you’re lecturing him for not wanting some top 1% lifestyle that no one has outside of DCUM.

Not retiring because of some off chance that OPs kids will have special needs - a statistical improbability - is not rationale. People are just jealous that they don’t have OPs freedom and have to slave away at their 9-5s and are trying to make OP feel bad because he was brave enough and disciplined enough to get out of the rat race. Period.

Op’s plan is that he and his mythical future spouse will together be netting 90k/year from investments, with said spouse contributing 1/3 of the nest egg so no a net HHI of 90,000k (or the $130k gross equivalent) doesn’t place a couple, much less a family of four anywhere near the top 10% lifestyle.

Moreover being unemployed they’re going to be paying an extra 15-20k in health insurance costs that would otherwise be subsidized by their employer.

I sincerely doubt anyone on this thread is jealous of op with his lack of ambition and resulting plans to live, and force upon his family, a life of scrimping and saving in order to avoid work. Most of us are just skeptical that he will find a high earning woman that will actually fall for his bs and feel sorry his kids if he somehow does.

This. Nobody is jealous of OP, because he has a very poor understanding of the costs of raising a family. Special needs are not that rare, neither are medical problems. Open market health insurance costs far more than OP thinks it does, and it's foolish to think he'll always be as healthy as he is in his early 30s. Owning a small condo does not prepare a person for the cost of owning a family home-- it's way more. It's also delusional to think a woman will happily kick in $1m for the privilege of being a SAHM with no outside help and an unemployed husband who doesn't help with the nitty gritty of parenting.

So go right ahead, OP, on your quest for a unicorn woman who wants to live this way and won't be put off by your meltdown when your math is revealed to be all wrong and you have to get, horror of horrors, a job.

Yep, what OP is bringing to the table is basically a promised lifetime salary of 60k/year with no hope for career advancement and the added drawback that he’ll be sitting around the house all day playing guitar. Umm, no thanks.

I don't think OP is in the market for shallow gold diggers.

Nor are most quality women on the market for an unemployed bum.

Regardless of net-worth, ambition is usually an important quality in a potential spouse for most.

Only on DCUM is a relatively young guy with millions considered a bum.

Tell us about your great life and man

Exactly. “A guy with $2 million in stocks and a paid off $500,000 house is a bum” said hardly any woman ever. Everyone in the world isn’t an uptight, striving Karen. These type of women are actually grossly over represented in the DC area but are much more in the minority in every other city in America.

A 38 year old guy with two million dollars in stock who plans to never work another day in his life but wants children/a family is going to be viewed as a bum by most 30 year old women who have already managed to save a million dollars (ie the specific category op is self purportedly seeking to attract.)

It doesn't matter how much you saved if you do nothing all day. You're still a bum. And p.s. a large part of that $2 million is due to his parents supporting him for years after college. Not impressive.

Yes PP. The average woman out there will most certainly be unimpressed with a guy who has $2M in stocks and a paid off half a million dollar condo.

What kind of bizarre, privileged world to you live in?

You omitted the last part of the sentence:

"The average woman out there will most certainly be unimpressed with a guy who has $2M in stocks and a paid off half a million dollar condo who never intends to work again, and intends to spend his time hiking and playing guitar." That's a pretty important part of the equation.

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t ask this question on a rich parenting board, the parents here all think you’re downright abusive if you don’t spoil the crap out of your kids or that your kids will somehow become damaged if they have to go without.

Not true, there are many poor families who spend practically nothing outside the bare necessities on their children and most turn out fine. There’s no reason why you need to sacrifice FIRE just because you had 2 kids especially if you front loaded wealth building and already have 7 figures by early 30’s. Private school and travel soccer are a HUGE f***ing waste of money and half those kids end up as useless drug addict trust fund babies by their late 20’s anyway. Just send them to state school, make them take out a bit of student loans, play rec league soccer. They don’t need more.

Many of those families have parents working multiple jobs just to make ends meet. On the other hand, telling your kids that they can’t participate in activities and depriving them of opportunities and educational advantages simply so that you can quit working at 40 and sit around playing guitar is flat out selfish and makes you a bad parent.

Yes, the kids will not have an amazing and fulfilling life like snobby dcum types.

Correct, they will have a working class life, but without the opportunities for scholarship and subsidies that are available to the children of actual working class parents.

Most parents hope to provide their children with a better life than they had…then there are those like op who couldn’t care less.

A better life like having someone else raise your kids and being a slave to the man sounds like a very nurturing environment.

I think a nice quality daycare sounds way better than being raised full-time by a man with a negative attitude, no flexibility, financial delusions, and an unwillingness to pay for anything fun.

A negative attitude means not being a cog in the system for some dirtbag boss who will fire you at the drop of a hat? No flexibility means doing literally whatever you want with the day’s time and not having to ask permission from another man to go on vacation? Financial delusion means thinking $2 million and a paid off condo is will sustain you in life?

Are you speaking about yourself or OP?

No, a negative attitude means thinking that all jobs are bad. Lots of people find jobs they like or are self-employed and are fine with it. Women want a man who, if family needs required it, would get a job and have a good attitude about doing what needs to be done. Not a whiny little baby who is convinced he can't possibly be happy if his preshus autonomy is even slightly limited.

OP is delusional because he thinks $90K per year is enough for a family of four.

Plenty of people live on $90k per year for a family of 4. It is absolutely doable. But it's rare that someone chooses that; the vast majority of the time it is because that's all the income they can access. That is what is so confounding about OP - he intends to thrush his yet to be identified wife, and yet to be born children, into a sub-optimal situation, with little to no backstop or safety net, because he doesn't want to work at ~40 years old, and would rather hike and play guitar.

Selfish isn't a strong enough word to describe this attitude.

$90,000 a year with no federal income tax because you’re drawing from capital gains is very different than $90,000 of income. For some reason a lot of PPs who are scolding OP don’t know basic tax policy.

You do pay federal taxes on Capital gains. They'd be paying 15%.

Fact is FIRE concept/retiring in your 30/40s when you have a family can be challenging. What if a kid has medical issues or learning issues that require major therapies? Do you really want to rely on "public services" or just the school system (hint: they often take forever to get services and do not supply as much as a kid really needs).
Do you really want to restrict your kid's activities, when you could afford more by simply having a job? Healthcare for a family or 3or 4 could be $15-20K per year with another $5-10K max OOP.

Having a job could bring that cost down to $300-400/month with a max $5K OOP.

And even in-State schools will be $60K/year in 20-25 years (when this guys kids would be attending). Cannot imagine denying my kids the opportunities to attend without much debt simply because I don't want to work.

If OP is married there is a $89,250 limit where capital gains withdrawals are taxed at 0% federally for married couples filing jointly. Google is your friend. Stop spreading disinformation. This cap will of course increase over time because if inflation.

As for all of your concerns, OP will be bringing home as much take home income as someone who is making $130,000+ when you factor in that they won’t be paying federal income tax or SS.

Making as much as someone with a 9-5 job where they make $130,000 + a having a paid off mortgage is not slumming it. It is literally having a top 10% lifestyle. It’s weird that you’re lecturing him for not wanting some top 1% lifestyle that no one has outside of DCUM.

Not retiring because of some off chance that OPs kids will have special needs - a statistical improbability - is not rationale. People are just jealous that they don’t have OPs freedom and have to slave away at their 9-5s and are trying to make OP feel bad because he was brave enough and disciplined enough to get out of the rat race. Period.

Op’s plan is that he and his mythical future spouse will together be netting 90k/year from investments, with said spouse contributing 1/3 of the nest egg so no a net HHI of 90,000k (or the $130k gross equivalent) doesn’t place a couple, much less a family of four anywhere near the top 10% lifestyle.

Moreover being unemployed they’re going to be paying an extra 15-20k in health insurance costs that would otherwise be subsidized by their employer.

I sincerely doubt anyone on this thread is jealous of op with his lack of ambition and resulting plans to live, and force upon his family, a life of scrimping and saving in order to avoid work. Most of us are just skeptical that he will find a high earning woman that will actually fall for his bs and feel sorry his kids if he somehow does.

This. Nobody is jealous of OP, because he has a very poor understanding of the costs of raising a family. Special needs are not that rare, neither are medical problems. Open market health insurance costs far more than OP thinks it does, and it's foolish to think he'll always be as healthy as he is in his early 30s. Owning a small condo does not prepare a person for the cost of owning a family home-- it's way more. It's also delusional to think a woman will happily kick in $1m for the privilege of being a SAHM with no outside help and an unemployed husband who doesn't help with the nitty gritty of parenting.

So go right ahead, OP, on your quest for a unicorn woman who wants to live this way and won't be put off by your meltdown when your math is revealed to be all wrong and you have to get, horror of horrors, a job.

Yep, what OP is bringing to the table is basically a promised lifetime salary of 60k/year with no hope for career advancement and the added drawback that he’ll be sitting around the house all day playing guitar. Umm, no thanks.

I don't think OP is in the market for shallow gold diggers.

Nor are most quality women on the market for an unemployed bum.

Regardless of net-worth, ambition is usually an important quality in a potential spouse for most.

Only on DCUM is a relatively young guy with millions considered a bum.

Tell us about your great life and man

Exactly. “A guy with $2 million in stocks and a paid off $500,000 house is a bum” said hardly any woman ever. Everyone in the world isn’t an uptight, striving Karen. These type of women are actually grossly over represented in the DC area but are much more in the minority in every other city in America.

A 38 year old guy with two million dollars in stock who plans to never work another day in his life but wants children/a family is going to be viewed as a bum by most 30 year old women who have already managed to save a million dollars (ie the specific category op is self purportedly seeking to attract.)

It doesn't matter how much you saved if you do nothing all day. You're still a bum. And p.s. a large part of that $2 million is due to his parents supporting him for years after college. Not impressive.

Yes PP. The average woman out there will most certainly be unimpressed with a guy who has $2M in stocks and a paid off half a million dollar condo.

What kind of bizarre, privileged world to you live in?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, since you're back, why don't you fill us in on precisely how much baby and toddler parenting you're planning to do.

Not the majority but a reasonable amount that keeps both my wife and I happy.

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Anonymous wrote:Don’t ask this question on a rich parenting board, the parents here all think you’re downright abusive if you don’t spoil the crap out of your kids or that your kids will somehow become damaged if they have to go without.

Not true, there are many poor families who spend practically nothing outside the bare necessities on their children and most turn out fine. There’s no reason why you need to sacrifice FIRE just because you had 2 kids especially if you front loaded wealth building and already have 7 figures by early 30’s. Private school and travel soccer are a HUGE f***ing waste of money and half those kids end up as useless drug addict trust fund babies by their late 20’s anyway. Just send them to state school, make them take out a bit of student loans, play rec league soccer. They don’t need more.

Many of those families have parents working multiple jobs just to make ends meet. On the other hand, telling your kids that they can’t participate in activities and depriving them of opportunities and educational advantages simply so that you can quit working at 40 and sit around playing guitar is flat out selfish and makes you a bad parent.

Yes, the kids will not have an amazing and fulfilling life like snobby dcum types.

Correct, they will have a working class life, but without the opportunities for scholarship and subsidies that are available to the children of actual working class parents.

Most parents hope to provide their children with a better life than they had…then there are those like op who couldn’t care less.

A better life like having someone else raise your kids and being a slave to the man sounds like a very nurturing environment.

I think a nice quality daycare sounds way better than being raised full-time by a man with a negative attitude, no flexibility, financial delusions, and an unwillingness to pay for anything fun.

A negative attitude means not being a cog in the system for some dirtbag boss who will fire you at the drop of a hat? No flexibility means doing literally whatever you want with the day’s time and not having to ask permission from another man to go on vacation? Financial delusion means thinking $2 million and a paid off condo is will sustain you in life?

Are you speaking about yourself or OP?

No, a negative attitude means thinking that all jobs are bad. Lots of people find jobs they like or are self-employed and are fine with it. Women want a man who, if family needs required it, would get a job and have a good attitude about doing what needs to be done. Not a whiny little baby who is convinced he can't possibly be happy if his preshus autonomy is even slightly limited.

OP is delusional because he thinks $90K per year is enough for a family of four.

Plenty of people live on $90k per year for a family of 4. It is absolutely doable. But it's rare that someone chooses that; the vast majority of the time it is because that's all the income they can access. That is what is so confounding about OP - he intends to thrush his yet to be identified wife, and yet to be born children, into a sub-optimal situation, with little to no backstop or safety net, because he doesn't want to work at ~40 years old, and would rather hike and play guitar.

Selfish isn't a strong enough word to describe this attitude.

$90,000 a year with no federal income tax because you’re drawing from capital gains is very different than $90,000 of income. For some reason a lot of PPs who are scolding OP don’t know basic tax policy.

You do pay federal taxes on Capital gains. They'd be paying 15%.

Fact is FIRE concept/retiring in your 30/40s when you have a family can be challenging. What if a kid has medical issues or learning issues that require major therapies? Do you really want to rely on "public services" or just the school system (hint: they often take forever to get services and do not supply as much as a kid really needs).
Do you really want to restrict your kid's activities, when you could afford more by simply having a job? Healthcare for a family or 3or 4 could be $15-20K per year with another $5-10K max OOP.

Having a job could bring that cost down to $300-400/month with a max $5K OOP.

And even in-State schools will be $60K/year in 20-25 years (when this guys kids would be attending). Cannot imagine denying my kids the opportunities to attend without much debt simply because I don't want to work.

If OP is married there is a $89,250 limit where capital gains withdrawals are taxed at 0% federally for married couples filing jointly. Google is your friend. Stop spreading disinformation. This cap will of course increase over time because if inflation.

As for all of your concerns, OP will be bringing home as much take home income as someone who is making $130,000+ when you factor in that they won’t be paying federal income tax or SS.

Making as much as someone with a 9-5 job where they make $130,000 + a having a paid off mortgage is not slumming it. It is literally having a top 10% lifestyle. It’s weird that you’re lecturing him for not wanting some top 1% lifestyle that no one has outside of DCUM.

Not retiring because of some off chance that OPs kids will have special needs - a statistical improbability - is not rationale. People are just jealous that they don’t have OPs freedom and have to slave away at their 9-5s and are trying to make OP feel bad because he was brave enough and disciplined enough to get out of the rat race. Period.

Op’s plan is that he and his mythical future spouse will together be netting 90k/year from investments, with said spouse contributing 1/3 of the nest egg so no a net HHI of 90,000k (or the $130k gross equivalent) doesn’t place a couple, much less a family of four anywhere near the top 10% lifestyle.

Moreover being unemployed they’re going to be paying an extra 15-20k in health insurance costs that would otherwise be subsidized by their employer.

I sincerely doubt anyone on this thread is jealous of op with his lack of ambition and resulting plans to live, and force upon his family, a life of scrimping and saving in order to avoid work. Most of us are just skeptical that he will find a high earning woman that will actually fall for his bs and feel sorry his kids if he somehow does.

This. Nobody is jealous of OP, because he has a very poor understanding of the costs of raising a family. Special needs are not that rare, neither are medical problems. Open market health insurance costs far more than OP thinks it does, and it's foolish to think he'll always be as healthy as he is in his early 30s. Owning a small condo does not prepare a person for the cost of owning a family home-- it's way more. It's also delusional to think a woman will happily kick in $1m for the privilege of being a SAHM with no outside help and an unemployed husband who doesn't help with the nitty gritty of parenting.

So go right ahead, OP, on your quest for a unicorn woman who wants to live this way and won't be put off by your meltdown when your math is revealed to be all wrong and you have to get, horror of horrors, a job.

Yep, what OP is bringing to the table is basically a promised lifetime salary of 60k/year with no hope for career advancement and the added drawback that he’ll be sitting around the house all day playing guitar. Umm, no thanks.

I don't think OP is in the market for shallow gold diggers.

Nor are most quality women on the market for an unemployed bum.

Regardless of net-worth, ambition is usually an important quality in a potential spouse for most.

Only on DCUM is a relatively young guy with millions considered a bum.

Tell us about your great life and man

Exactly. “A guy with $2 million in stocks and a paid off $500,000 house is a bum” said hardly any woman ever. Everyone in the world isn’t an uptight, striving Karen. These type of women are actually grossly over represented in the DC area but are much more in the minority in every other city in America.

A 38 year old guy with two million dollars in stock who plans to never work another day in his life but wants children/a family is going to be viewed as a bum by most 30 year old women who have already managed to save a million dollars (ie the specific category op is self purportedly seeking to attract.)

It doesn't matter how much you saved if you do nothing all day. You're still a bum. And p.s. a large part of that $2 million is due to his parents supporting him for years after college. Not impressive.

This is precisely the type of woman that OP should avoid. Low class striver going out of her way to insult someone who chose to take a different path in life. EWWWW

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will she also do the majority of cooking, cleaning and household chores? Because your budget doesn't allow for a cleaning service or much takeout/restaurants.

You guys are trying to bait me, but it's not going to work.

I'd expect we'd split cooking, laundry, etc. 50/50. Real cleaning we'll outsource - as frugal as I am, a monthly house cleaner is something I've always splurged on. Currently, it's only $90 for my condo and I know it will obviously be more in a house - we'll budget for that.

Regarding parenting, I do expect she'd take the lead there. Yes, if I'm bringing most of the money to the marriage, I'd expect her to contribute in other ways. But, primarily, I'd expect her to do the majority of the parenting because I would only be attracted in the first place to a woman who is nurturing and would enjoy taking care of the kid(s). Similarly, I'd expect the lawn mowing to fall 100/0 to me since that's traditionally a male activity.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's equally reckless to delay dating and parenthood. What if you run out of time before you meet the right person?

I'm really not sure why you can't go on, say, one date every two weeks just to get started and practice relationship skills. FIRE women won't be expecting you to spend much.

Dating is expensive (both in terms of money and time)! The guys I know that are successful at it treat it like a part-time job.

Also, I think it’s going to be very difficult, if I do find the right person, to say, “Hey, I like you a lot. Let’s put a pin in this for five years—or tread water until then—and then we can move forward with our lives.” I think it just makes more sense to date when I can really commit to someone.