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Anonymous wrote:I would give her a second chance, but not a third.

A 75 year old woman drove off the Beltway randomly yesterday killing a fourteen year old in the process.

Look it up.

She was probably shoving your attitude onto her adult children before she caused this fatal accident.

We need to start accepting that Boomers are getting older and they aren’t up to parenting our kids when they show the slightest sign of it. Don’t wait until it’s too late.

Anonymous wrote:I would give her a second chance, but not a third.

Anonymous wrote:Not hard. My son was refusing to do something and giving her a hard time. She essentially spanked him on his leg. He didn't even cry- just yelled out "Ow! Don't hit me, Grammy!". I ran in from the other room and she admitted it right away. She said that she was really frustrated and apologized to both my son and me. I am SO angry but my husband is shrugging it off. He thinks I am being dramatic. I don't want her to babysit anymore. WWYD?

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Anonymous wrote:Op here- For more context, I had just gotten out of the shower so I was getting dressed. My 4 year old was bent out of shape because he wanted to wear flip flops and we were going somewhere that required sneakers. I definitely did not like the way he was behaving but I don't think that deems him to be a nasty brat? I wouldn't have engaged in the power struggle with him. I would have put the shoes in front of him and headed towards the door. That type of approach typically works with him. My MIL (aka my husband's mother) was trying to forcibly put the shoes on for him and he kept yanking his feet away. I really do get it - that is maddening. But I would have never expected her to hit him! I was honestly stunned. I did appreciate her apology and transparency. I could tell she was embarrassed. But still...I can't imagine hitting someone else's child.

I feel like by hitting him, she muddied the waters because when I went to talk to him about what happened, I was more focused on "its never ok for anyone to hit you" rather than "your behavior was not ok".

When a child doesn't put their shoes on when asked, the usual way to deal with that is to just put them on the child. That's pretty common. Your way, of avoiding the issue by putting the shoes near the child and then moving away, is what I do for my ASD DC.

I don't think grandma is the issue here. Not sure if it's your DC or your parenting style, but something is unusual.

I would have absolutely given clear and firm instructtions ("put your shoes on") and then if he didn't, i would have also attempted to put them on myself. But if he started yanking his feet away, thats when I would have just said "We're leaving. Put your shoes on" and walked towards the door. Signaling that its time to move on. I don't think thats permissive. I guess is more gentle that spanking him?

And what happens when he still doesn’t put his shoes on after you have walked towards the door and you actually need to leave? Say you need to get to work or a funeral or the hospital or some other non-optional event that you can’t just call off? What do you do then?

This is where gentle parenting always falls apart and has no answers. When the child does what OPs does when you try to put their shoes on, gentle parenting is silent. Mine screams, tries to kick me, tries to run away, and I’m left with no answers in the moment to deal with this behavior when we really need to get somewhere.

Eventually, in 1 or 5 or 10 years, he will put his shoes on right away when you ask him to. Gentle parenting works, just be patient.

when you are late for work, you don't have 1 or 5 or 10 years to be patient to have them follow directions and get ready for school.

If your household is so disorganized you have to hit children to be on time for work, you have no place criticizing any other parent.

oh, so you've never been late to work?

I’ve been late to work, I’ve never considered resorting to hitting a toddler because of it. The solution to being late to work is adults having better time management not worse impulse control.

A 4 year old is not a toddler.

I’ve never considered resorting to hitting a child, then, as a solution to time management.

In my household it’s gamified, my sister leaves her kids shoes and backpacks in the car the night before, and I have a friend whose kids wear slip ons year round. All of those are more rational responses than hitting a kid who isn’t getting ready in the timeline you need.

Grandma didn't hit the child because they were running late. She swatted him because he was kicking at her. In a toddler, that might be cute. In a preschooler, it's not cute anymore. It's bad behavior and could be dangerous.

Then you put the shoes down and move to your next thing. You don’t hit a kid, especially because you want them to be *less* physical.

Kicking at or hitting towards an adult is not to be tolerated. You can gentle parent all your want. I wouldn't ignore that behavior. I told my kids No in my growliest Mom voice. A swat doesn't seem out of line.

And yet the kid didn’t say grandma “swatted” him nor is that what the grandma said. Why do you feel so uncomfortable saying what they did— hit— if it’s so in line?

What four year old uses "swat" instead of "hit"?

Anonymous wrote:Poor Grandma having to deal with the child when OP won't. Keep your ill behaved brat from bothering the grandmother. Parent him.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here- For more context, I had just gotten out of the shower so I was getting dressed. My 4 year old was bent out of shape because he wanted to wear flip flops and we were going somewhere that required sneakers. I definitely did not like the way he was behaving but I don't think that deems him to be a nasty brat? I wouldn't have engaged in the power struggle with him. I would have put the shoes in front of him and headed towards the door. That type of approach typically works with him. My MIL (aka my husband's mother) was trying to forcibly put the shoes on for him and he kept yanking his feet away. I really do get it - that is maddening. But I would have never expected her to hit him! I was honestly stunned. I did appreciate her apology and transparency. I could tell she was embarrassed. But still...I can't imagine hitting someone else's child.

I feel like by hitting him, she muddied the waters because when I went to talk to him about what happened, I was more focused on "its never ok for anyone to hit you" rather than "your behavior was not ok".

When a child doesn't put their shoes on when asked, the usual way to deal with that is to just put them on the child. That's pretty common. Your way, of avoiding the issue by putting the shoes near the child and then moving away, is what I do for my ASD DC.

I don't think grandma is the issue here. Not sure if it's your DC or your parenting style, but something is unusual.

I would have absolutely given clear and firm instructtions ("put your shoes on") and then if he didn't, i would have also attempted to put them on myself. But if he started yanking his feet away, thats when I would have just said "We're leaving. Put your shoes on" and walked towards the door. Signaling that its time to move on. I don't think thats permissive. I guess is more gentle that spanking him?

And what happens when he still doesn’t put his shoes on after you have walked towards the door and you actually need to leave? Say you need to get to work or a funeral or the hospital or some other non-optional event that you can’t just call off? What do you do then?

This is where gentle parenting always falls apart and has no answers. When the child does what OPs does when you try to put their shoes on, gentle parenting is silent. Mine screams, tries to kick me, tries to run away, and I’m left with no answers in the moment to deal with this behavior when we really need to get somewhere.

Eventually, in 1 or 5 or 10 years, he will put his shoes on right away when you ask him to. Gentle parenting works, just be patient.

:shock: when you are late for work, you don't have 1 or 5 or 10 years to be patient to have them follow directions and get ready for school.

If your household is so disorganized you have to hit children to be on time for work, you have no place criticizing any other parent.

oh, so you've never been late to work?

I’ve been late to work, I’ve never considered resorting to hitting a toddler because of it. The solution to being late to work is adults having better time management not worse impulse control.

How do you time manage your way out of a preschooler (not a toddler) throwing a tantrum? Do you get yourself and said preschooler up an hour early to allow time for the tantrum? What if he’s extra cranky (probably due to the inadequate sleep) and he keeps going? What if your arm is broken or you have a bad back and you can’t physically carry him to the car?

Please tell us how better time management solves this problem.

An hour? No. However I get myself up and ready way before my kids, make sure I’ve had breakfast and looked at email and am not running around disorganized and rushed. The clothes are all out and ready and if I had a kid who really struggled with shoes I would let them wear Crocs or slip ons before I would resort to hitting them. If a kid needed to throw a 15 minute tantrum I still wouldn’t be late to work and I wouldn’t need to hit them.

How do you think all the other parents get their kids to school and themselves to work without hitting their kids? Do that.

Did it ever occur to you that kids aren't all the same? You have a very limited sample size. And some tantrums last more than 15 minutes. But you wouldn't have any idea because you can't fathom walking a mile in anyone else's shoes.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here- For more context, I had just gotten out of the shower so I was getting dressed. My 4 year old was bent out of shape because he wanted to wear flip flops and we were going somewhere that required sneakers. I definitely did not like the way he was behaving but I don't think that deems him to be a nasty brat? I wouldn't have engaged in the power struggle with him. I would have put the shoes in front of him and headed towards the door. That type of approach typically works with him. My MIL (aka my husband's mother) was trying to forcibly put the shoes on for him and he kept yanking his feet away. I really do get it - that is maddening. But I would have never expected her to hit him! I was honestly stunned. I did appreciate her apology and transparency. I could tell she was embarrassed. But still...I can't imagine hitting someone else's child.

I feel like by hitting him, she muddied the waters because when I went to talk to him about what happened, I was more focused on "its never ok for anyone to hit you" rather than "your behavior was not ok".

When a child doesn't put their shoes on when asked, the usual way to deal with that is to just put them on the child. That's pretty common. Your way, of avoiding the issue by putting the shoes near the child and then moving away, is what I do for my ASD DC.

I don't think grandma is the issue here. Not sure if it's your DC or your parenting style, but something is unusual.

I would have absolutely given clear and firm instructtions ("put your shoes on") and then if he didn't, i would have also attempted to put them on myself. But if he started yanking his feet away, thats when I would have just said "We're leaving. Put your shoes on" and walked towards the door. Signaling that its time to move on. I don't think thats permissive. I guess is more gentle that spanking him?

And what happens when he still doesn’t put his shoes on after you have walked towards the door and you actually need to leave? Say you need to get to work or a funeral or the hospital or some other non-optional event that you can’t just call off? What do you do then?

DP, but I also wouldn’t not get into a physical power struggle with an upset 4 y/o because that is likely to end up escalating and leading to me getting kicked (this is only something I’d do with a toddler who can’t be reasoned with).

In my house I give a “shoes on in 5 minutes” advance notice with some buffer time built in. If they do not out them on in 5 min, then I give a warning like “if we do not leave the house in 2 minutes we will be late to X event, and if we are late then we will not have time to do Y thing (something they want to do) later.” Or even just if we are late then people will think we are rude or whatever other natural consequence flows.

Basically I would try to make a logical connection to time being wasted.

Worst case if I really *had* to leave the house then I’d get them in the car in bare feet and bring the sneakers along. Hopefully they’d be calmed down by the time we get there.

Thank you for showing an actual example of natural consequences. Hitting a child because they dont put their shoes on right away is NOT a natural consequence, and I worry for that pps parenting skills.

You misunderstood. The hitting as natural consequences is not for not putting shoes on, specifically. It’s for being so completely rude and disrespectful that you have frustrated a person to the point that they want to hit you to make you stop. That doesn’t mean that person is CORRECT in hitting you, or even that you deserved it. It simply means that, like it or not, your own behavior does have an effect on other people, and that sometimes other people will lose control and hurt you, or hurt you because they think you have it coming. Essentially, this is an incredibly low stakes version of FAAFO.

You completely misunderstand (willfully likely) what natural consequences are. No child should be hit because YOU are frustrated. Hitting someone else is relieving YOU of anger and frustration. It is not teaching a child anything.

You are actively victim blaming here, and its wildly inappropriate. No, girls did not "Ask for it" while wearing a short dress. But to you, that is a "natural consequence" of dressing in a mini skirt and bikini top. The person doing the violence is always the one to blame, dismissing it with gentle language or saying they had it coming is disgusting.

And blaming someone else for the violence, and ending the conversation there, doesn’t empower your child to learn to avoid or at the very least not escalate situations that have a likelihood of becoming violent.

As to your silly example - “Asking for it” and “probably should have anticipated it could happen” are different. The latter is reality, unfortunately, no matter how unfair it is. I would prefer to teach my daughter that it’s a terrible idea to stroll down a dark alley in a mini skirt and bikini top, rather than reassuring her in the emergency room that she is not to blame for whatever someone neither she nor I have any control over chose to do. The world is what it is, and it is our responsibility to teach our children how to live in it. Sorry you think that’s disgusting.

Anonymous wrote:"My son was refusing to do something and giving her a hard time."

How old is your son? What was he doing/not doing? What does "hard time" mean?

If we are talking about an 8 year-old who is refusing to stop smacking a toy on grandma's head because he thinks it's funny to annoy her, then grandma was perfectly within her rights to swat him.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here- For more context, I had just gotten out of the shower so I was getting dressed. My 4 year old was bent out of shape because he wanted to wear flip flops and we were going somewhere that required sneakers. I definitely did not like the way he was behaving but I don't think that deems him to be a nasty brat? I wouldn't have engaged in the power struggle with him. I would have put the shoes in front of him and headed towards the door. That type of approach typically works with him. My MIL (aka my husband's mother) was trying to forcibly put the shoes on for him and he kept yanking his feet away. I really do get it - that is maddening. But I would have never expected her to hit him! I was honestly stunned. I did appreciate her apology and transparency. I could tell she was embarrassed. But still...I can't imagine hitting someone else's child.

I feel like by hitting him, she muddied the waters because when I went to talk to him about what happened, I was more focused on "its never ok for anyone to hit you" rather than "your behavior was not ok".

When a child doesn't put their shoes on when asked, the usual way to deal with that is to just put them on the child. That's pretty common. Your way, of avoiding the issue by putting the shoes near the child and then moving away, is what I do for my ASD DC.

I don't think grandma is the issue here. Not sure if it's your DC or your parenting style, but something is unusual.

I would have absolutely given clear and firm instructtions ("put your shoes on") and then if he didn't, i would have also attempted to put them on myself. But if he started yanking his feet away, thats when I would have just said "We're leaving. Put your shoes on" and walked towards the door. Signaling that its time to move on. I don't think thats permissive. I guess is more gentle that spanking him?

And what happens when he still doesn’t put his shoes on after you have walked towards the d

oor and you actually need to leave? Say you need to get to work or a funeral or the hospital or some other non-optional event that you can’t just call off? What do you do then?

This is where gentle parenting always falls apart and has no answers. When the child does what OPs does when you try to put their shoes on, gentle parenting is silent. Mine screams, tries to kick me, tries to run away, and I’m left with no answers in the moment to deal with this behavior when we really need to get somewhere.

Do you hit your child to get them to put their shoes on?

No, never. I just live in seething resentment and rage because I have zero control over my life and am exhausted from physically moving my heavy non-cooperative child all day, because that’s the only thing you are allowed to do in gentle parenting when all the waiting and cajoling and choices fail.

What keeps you from switching to another non-violent form of parenting? There’s literature supporting systems like 1-2-3 Magic, and no literature supporting hitting.

Time outs are abusive because they withhold love from the child.

And all of these behavioral techniques including 1-2-3 and time outs are coercive and manipulative which is antithetical to gentle parenting.