Anonymous wrote:Who are these people talking about spanking and corporal punishment in schools? I’m 58 and grew up in a rural area and teachers weren’t allowed to do this even then.

I'm 40 and my mom paddled kids regularly in her classroom when I was a kid. Different places had different rules.

Anonymous wrote:Who are these people talking about spanking and corporal punishment in schools? I’m 58 and grew up in a rural area and teachers weren’t allowed to do this even then.

I'm 42, and at my public elementary school in downstate IL in 1990, there was a paddle hanging at the front of the room. The first time it was used on a student by our teacher, I came home and told my mom and she pulled me from that school the next day.

At another elementary school in the same district, paddling was allowed, but it was only allowed for the principal, in the principal's office. Not regular classroom teachers.

What if, in my lived experience (is that not redundant?), I found disapproval to be more traumatizing than a moderate, not angry spanking?

Who are these people talking about spanking and corporal punishment in schools? I’m 58 and grew up in a rural area and teachers weren’t allowed to do this even then.

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of this comes down to rationalization. People know that their parents hit them as a form of discipline. It's pretty traumatizing to think that mommy and daddy hit them unnecessarily. So, the trick is to convince yourself that it *was* necessary. That way their parents' actions go from "needless and bad" to "good, actually."

I don't think anyone who was spanked thinks it was the best way or the only way. They're just more able to accept that life isn't perfect and they're still okay. Their parents did some shitty things to them and some good things. Everything turned out alright for them anyway.

Have we read the same thread? There are A LOT of people on this thread who think that spanking is the best/only way to instill discipline. There are more posters who don't think it's the best form of discipline but that it is either sometimes necessary or at least understandable why a parent would choose that. There are plenty of posters here who justify spanking by citing themselves being spanked and "turning out just fine" despite or even because of the spanking.

Yes. Are you saying they're really not okay? They just don't know it?

If they say they are okay, I trust that they are okay. I don't know them and am not here to second-guess people's lived experiences. I find it personally hard to believe that the spanking is why those people are okay, that being spanked by their parents turned them into the upstanding citizens they are today, etc. etc. I think it's pretty clear that spanking is more damaging to some kids than others, can be used more abusively by some parents than others, and that not everyone will be traumatized by it.

I also think there are a number of other people on this thread who were spanked who have been very clear that they were/are NOT okay. People who were damaged longterm by this discipline their parents used. Upthread, one of THOSE people was told that them not being okay was a sign of being too sensitive and that they would have been traumatized by simply receiving their parents' disapproval. Those lived experiences are very much being second-guessed by people who are invested in spanking being okay so as to validate their own experience of being okay.

My DH and I were children of the seventies and were spanked, but rarely. Now that there are grandchildren, they realize that wasn’t the method they wished they used.

There are times when my DH or I wanted to spank but knew it would have been in anger.

There is a very fine line that can be crossed and many parents can’t draw that line. People are tired, stressed out, working longer hours, trying to make ends meet. When they get home, they may take it out on their children without ever meaning to. A swat becomes harder or turns into multiple hits.

Parenting is damn hard work. It takes a hell of a lot of effort to talk to your children every night to find out how school went, how they are feeling or simply teach them.

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of this comes down to rationalization. People know that their parents hit them as a form of discipline. It's pretty traumatizing to think that mommy and daddy hit them unnecessarily. So, the trick is to convince yourself that it *was* necessary. That way their parents' actions go from "needless and bad" to "good, actually."

I don't think anyone who was spanked thinks it was the best way or the only way. They're just more able to accept that life isn't perfect and they're still okay. Their parents did some shitty things to them and some good things. Everything turned out alright for them anyway.

Have we read the same thread? There are A LOT of people on this thread who think that spanking is the best/only way to instill discipline. There are more posters who don't think it's the best form of discipline but that it is either sometimes necessary or at least understandable why a parent would choose that. There are plenty of posters here who justify spanking by citing themselves being spanked and "turning out just fine" despite or even because of the spanking.

Yes. Are you saying they're really not okay? They just don't know it?

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Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of this comes down to rationalization. People know that their parents hit them as a form of discipline. It's pretty traumatizing to think that mommy and daddy hit them unnecessarily. So, the trick is to convince yourself that it *was* necessary. That way their parents' actions go from "needless and bad" to "good, actually."

I don't think anyone who was spanked thinks it was the best way or the only way. They're just more able to accept that life isn't perfect and they're still okay. Their parents did some shitty things to them and some good things. Everything turned out alright for them anyway.

Have we read the same thread? There are A LOT of people on this thread who think that spanking is the best/only way to instill discipline. There are more posters who don't think it's the best form of discipline but that it is either sometimes necessary or at least understandable why a parent would choose that. There are plenty of posters here who justify spanking by citing themselves being spanked and "turning out just fine" despite or even because of the spanking.

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of this comes down to rationalization. People know that their parents hit them as a form of discipline. It's pretty traumatizing to think that mommy and daddy hit them unnecessarily. So, the trick is to convince yourself that it *was* necessary. That way their parents' actions go from "needless and bad" to "good, actually."

I don't think anyone who was spanked thinks it was the best way or the only way. They're just more able to accept that life isn't perfect and they're still okay. Their parents did some shitty things to them and some good things. Everything turned out alright for them anyway.

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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal, but the kids I knew who were spanked generally seemed to grow up in more dysfunctional families and didn't turn out as well as the kids who weren't.

Presumably you are referring to kids who are 7-12 ish age range that were spanked, rather than the 1-4 year olds who were near-universally spanked?

Spanking a 1-4 year old should be a crime. They can't even control themselves yet.

Expecting and requiring no self-control from a 1-4 year old should be a crime. Children can learn and follow rules and instructions. Not perfectly - but believing that they cannot even control themselves is nonsense parenting.

They absolutely can and at age 1-4 it's completely unnecessary to spank to teach them.

Not just unnecessary -- counterproductive. You are squandering the years when their love and trust are easily earned through kindness, patience, and warmth. Eventually kids learn to think for themselves and question their parents' wisdom (this is normal and inevitable). If you hit them, there's no underlying trust and love there. If you are instead kind and patient, that can form the basis for a relationship you can continue to work with well into adolescence and young adulthood.

Spanking is abusive, but it's also not effective.

I believe that you genuinely believe this but how can you explain every mother animal who raises her babies? She doesn't use time outs or losing screen time but her babies still love and trust her. Are human babies that different? Stupid or defective?

As a zoologist I’m very curious to hear your take on mothering in the animal world. Just where is all the punitive physically assaultive parenting happening there? Please advise.

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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal, but the kids I knew who were spanked generally seemed to grow up in more dysfunctional families and didn't turn out as well as the kids who weren't.

Presumably you are referring to kids who are 7-12 ish age range that were spanked, rather than the 1-4 year olds who were near-universally spanked?

Spanking a 1-4 year old should be a crime. They can't even control themselves yet.

Expecting and requiring no self-control from a 1-4 year old should be a crime. Children can learn and follow rules and instructions. Not perfectly - but believing that they cannot even control themselves is nonsense parenting.

They absolutely can and at age 1-4 it's completely unnecessary to spank to teach them.

Not just unnecessary -- counterproductive. You are squandering the years when their love and trust are easily earned through kindness, patience, and warmth. Eventually kids learn to think for themselves and question their parents' wisdom (this is normal and inevitable). If you hit them, there's no underlying trust and love there. If you are instead kind and patient, that can form the basis for a relationship you can continue to work with well into adolescence and young adulthood.

Spanking is abusive, but it's also not effective.

I believe that you genuinely believe this but how can you explain every mother animal who raises her babies? She doesn't use time outs or losing screen time but her babies still love and trust her. Are human babies that different? Stupid or defective?

You said it yourself. They're animals. Animals are stupid and violent. People think and learn. We've learned better, less violent ways to educate our kids. Some of them require ingenuity and patience.

Okay.

My parents spanked me as a form of discipline. It was not traumatizing.

I think a lot of this comes down to rationalization. People know that their parents hit them as a form of discipline. It's pretty traumatizing to think that mommy and daddy hit them unnecessarily. So, the trick is to convince yourself that it *was* necessary. That way their parents' actions go from "needless and bad" to "good, actually."

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotal, but the kids I knew who were spanked generally seemed to grow up in more dysfunctional families and didn't turn out as well as the kids who weren't.

Presumably you are referring to kids who are 7-12 ish age range that were spanked, rather than the 1-4 year olds who were near-universally spanked?

Spanking a 1-4 year old should be a crime. They can't even control themselves yet.

Expecting and requiring no self-control from a 1-4 year old should be a crime. Children can learn and follow rules and instructions. Not perfectly - but believing that they cannot even control themselves is nonsense parenting.

They absolutely can and at age 1-4 it's completely unnecessary to spank to teach them.

Not just unnecessary -- counterproductive. You are squandering the years when their love and trust are easily earned through kindness, patience, and warmth. Eventually kids learn to think for themselves and question their parents' wisdom (this is normal and inevitable). If you hit them, there's no underlying trust and love there. If you are instead kind and patient, that can form the basis for a relationship you can continue to work with well into adolescence and young adulthood.

Spanking is abusive, but it's also not effective.

I believe that you genuinely believe this but how can you explain every mother animal who raises her babies? She doesn't use time outs or losing screen time but her babies still love and trust her. Are human babies that different? Stupid or defective?

You said it yourself. They're animals. Animals are stupid and violent. People think and learn. We've learned better, less violent ways to educate our kids. Some of them require ingenuity and patience.

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Anonymous wrote:I don't spank my dog so I most definitely don't spank my kids. My dog still learns rules and so do my kids

People who think kids behave worse today really don't remember the sh*t kids did in their youth. It's a bizarre rose colored glasses mentality.

Kids just did different bad things than they do now. Every generation seems to believe in the superiority of theirs.

+1. Every person I hear complain about kids today being misbehaved because of like, whining about screentime, also then can tell you a story about some violent fight outside a bar back in the day, the day they crashed their parent's car joy riding, some bullying sh*t they either did to someone else or experienced, and on and on. But sure, kids today are so much worse because they heard someone whine once.

Are you just pretending not to notice the behaviors in school, the skyrocketing juvenile crime, etc.? This isn't about whining.

Panic much? The world is getting better. You're just so scared, you think it's getting worse. You probably don't even realize how much violent crime is down from when GenX was coming up.