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Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

Actually, sometimes you do have to do that. None of us will ever know if that was the case here.

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Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

That it was inappropriate is an opinion, not a fact.

Kids don’t get sent away for 3 years with the kind of minor issues Collin has. The fact that Kate never visited and blocked his dad from taking custody or even knowing where he was strongly reinforces that Kate wanted to get rid of Collin.

Right, they don't. So the obvious conclusion is there's more going on. Not that everyone is joining forces with Kate like family court, schools, CPS, mental health institutions, the other kids, just to be super mean to Collin. I mean, come on. Why would everyone do that?

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Anonymous wrote:He was probably just ADHD and defiant, but Kate being a controlling narcissist she needed a scapegoat for her family system to work and she couldn’t send him to Jon because that would blow her image. I suspect she calculated that in her fan base there would be sympathy for her and support for her taking the difficult step to send her special needs child to a residential facility so she could focus, poor single mom that she was, on the rest of the kids. And of course she didn’t advertise that she wasn’t visiting him or calling him or facilitating an ongoing relationship between him and his siblings - when all of those facts came out is when her fan base went *poof* and why she couldn’t shop another show concept to anyone. She is a vile person, truly.

I am not team Jon either, please don’t get me wrong. I think they are both shallow minded people to bring a litter of babies into the world in the first place, and it was despicable to make them commodities from birth and to violate their privacy their entire childhoods.

I expect we haven’t heard the end of Gosselin family dysfunction. Poor kids.

I suspect the show paid for the institution to keep the family image perfect.

And to avoid having to film Collin not participating. He said in the Vice interview that he no longer wanted to be filmed and then showed clips of him sitting sullenly and silently next to his brothers on a couch when being filmed by the crew. TLC I think are the absolute real villains in all this. The made easily over a hundred million dollars off this family. When you look at all the money the network made, the family got peanuts. Paying for residential treatment-around 80 to 100k a year would be worth it for the network to earn millions.

Try 200-300k.

Yep. And no insurance company would cover three years of that.

The school system would. Special education kids are placed at residential facilities due to behavior issues and it's paid for by the school district. I suspect that's what happened to Collin, because otherwise I don't know how Kate could have afforded it. Obviously the issues have to be pretty bad to qualify for residential.

You would need a diagnosis to get the services. ADHD alone would never cut it.

Yeah. Behavior has to be really extreme and the first step would not be residential.

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Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

I'm pretty sure Kate or Mady is on this thread.

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Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

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Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

Anonymous wrote:There is a great deal of naïveté being expressed here as to the whole issue of sending away kids to institutions.

Yes, kids have rights. But they cannot exercise them if they cannot access someone who will help them navigate the system.

It is entirely plausible for a relatively normal kid with ADHD and some defiant behavior to end up in some kind of facility and staying there as long as the parent in control of their custody determines they should be there. Just ask Paris Hilton.

Jon didn’t know Collin was institutionalized. Collin and his siblings are all apparently estranged from aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. If the facility is controlling his communications with the outside world, how was he supposed to reach out to anyone? The typical 11, 12, 13 year old is just not that resourceful and children who grow up under the watchful eye of a narcissistic abusive parent have much less agency than typical kids. It can take years to break out of those psychological bonds and many people just never do, they are domineered by a cruel parent their entire lives. We all know of such people.

I think there are two kinds of people responding to this thread; people who have never really experienced toxic narcissism up close in a family or love relationship, and people who have - in particular people who have the firsthand experience of growing up with at least one narcissistic parent and being cast into a role in a narcissistic family model, as the scapegoat or the golden child or one of the flying monkeys.

Scapegoat children are often painted by their narcissistic parent(s) as irredeemable and fundamentally unworthy of the gift of life the parent gave them. They will paint their scapegoat child that way to anyone who will lend an ear, and they will do so even in the face of clear evidence of the accomplishments and good character of the child.

I have worked closely with people and been friends with people over many years and have had them say to me ‘any parent in their right mind would be thrilled to have such a child as you.’

But my parents were not in their right mind. Narcissistic parents never are. They are broken inside and fundamentally incapable of healthy parental love and nurture. Kate is certainly that.

Whether Collin is broken or not remains to be seen. But if he is, it is nearly all down to serious attachment issues with a mother who readily admits that she could not stand him from the earliest.

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Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

That it was inappropriate is an opinion, not a fact.

Kids don’t get sent away for 3 years with the kind of minor issues Collin has. The fact that Kate never visited and blocked his dad from taking custody or even knowing where he was strongly reinforces that Kate wanted to get rid of Collin.

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Anonymous wrote:Mady was my favorite kid when I watched the show. At this point, she’s a mini Kate and her statement shows that she will not stand for hate of any kind, except the kind she herself dishes out.

She really is Kate 2.0 which is not good for her at all.

Agree that her statement was not a good look. My guess is Kate used her to help dole out punishment and she is trying to rationalize. Kate is the true monster who literally had her kid sent away and didn’t even visit. I remember her saying they were not sure of his diagnosis. and my guess is there wasn’t some awful thing so she made stuff up. I feel bad for Colin but he has turned out okay. He is very mature in his interviews. Hannah is so sweet-I imagine it was hard for her to walk away and she is trying to bring everyone together.

That's a lot of guessing and assuming. Her message was clear. She and some of the siblings identify as LGBTQ+ and Collin has made hateful comments and been violent. If there's not a good look its for Collin. Has he denied it yet? Maybe that's who he is. Not a good look for him or his supporters.

Still lots questions, because none of them have seen him since he was 12, and they apparently haven't spoken since he was institutionalized. Is Mady referring to things he said at age 12? That seems a bit extreme. If this is more recent, how was he making the comments and threatening them if they are no contact? And why is Hannah ok with being around Collin if he was so violent to them all? Idk, the timeline is confusing. Also, let's not pretend Mady is perfect. The show is FULL of her beating on her siblings and being mean and hateful to them. Not just when she was little, but also during the later filmings of Kate+8 where she was a pre-teen/teen. She was awful.

Also, Jon's ex-girlfriend's kids are Black and one of them is gay. At some point, all of them were living together. Not sure if Collin still has a relationship with the kids, but he definitely does with Colleen. On his graduation IG post, he shouted Colleen out and she commented a very loving message back. Seems odd, if Collin is so racist and hateful, that Colleen would still want a relationship with him.

Nobody is pretending anyone is perfect. But Mady made some pretty damning allegations. If they aren't true they why isn't Collin speaking out and threatening to sue? And I think it's clear Mady isn't only talking about race so Colleen's support isn't necessarily relevant. People just seem to want to discount any evidence that challenges their preconceived notion of Kate = evil, Collin = sweet angel. There is a lot we probably don't know and the older the kids get the more we'll find out.

They are mother and child - not two equally situated parties. *Many* people on her have acknowledged that Collin likely had challenging behaviors. That doesn’t justify abuse. Unless someone can demonstrate to me that he is seriously dangerous or mentally ill, the facts still show that Kate purposefully got rid of him by sending him to long-term inpatient therapy that was all out of proportion with his condition- and then purposefully isolated him there by refusing to visit and keeping the child’s own father away. We have documented evidence of Kate rejecting and mistreating Collin from a young age. This was the culmination. Whatever supposed insults or fights he engaged in recently with Mady have nothing to do with this history.

You're not going to get someone's medical history as evidence. The family seems pretty tight lipped about what issues Collin has. He has been kicked out of schools, accepted into an institution, and accused of violence and hateful statements, those are also facts. If Kate was protecting the kids from him, it's hard to fault that. How many survivors of abuse wished their parents did that? We don't have the full story, but you're pretending that you somehow have all the facts from a scripted reality show.

You don’t protect your other kids by sending one child inappropriately to an institution, isolating him, and keeping him away from his other parent. Collin may have needed supports but Kate chose a harsh and ostracizing approach.

That it was inappropriate is an opinion, not a fact.

Anonymous wrote:Kate would beat him in his crib, and one time he spilled a bag of beans when he was TWO and she beat him so bad she thought she would hurt him so left him in his crib until Jon got home. According to what Collin disclosed to a court ordered therapist, Kate also zip tied him to chairs and made him sleep in a closet.

I'm not saying being violent is ok for Colin but he has known nothing else since he was a baby apparently.


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Anonymous wrote:He was probably just ADHD and defiant, but Kate being a controlling narcissist she needed a scapegoat for her family system to work and she couldn’t send him to Jon because that would blow her image. I suspect she calculated that in her fan base there would be sympathy for her and support for her taking the difficult step to send her special needs child to a residential facility so she could focus, poor single mom that she was, on the rest of the kids. And of course she didn’t advertise that she wasn’t visiting him or calling him or facilitating an ongoing relationship between him and his siblings - when all of those facts came out is when her fan base went *poof* and why she couldn’t shop another show concept to anyone. She is a vile person, truly.

I am not team Jon either, please don’t get me wrong. I think they are both shallow minded people to bring a litter of babies into the world in the first place, and it was despicable to make them commodities from birth and to violate their privacy their entire childhoods.

I expect we haven’t heard the end of Gosselin family dysfunction. Poor kids.

I suspect the show paid for the institution to keep the family image perfect.

And to avoid having to film Collin not participating. He said in the Vice interview that he no longer wanted to be filmed and then showed clips of him sitting sullenly and silently next to his brothers on a couch when being filmed by the crew. TLC I think are the absolute real villains in all this. The made easily over a hundred million dollars off this family. When you look at all the money the network made, the family got peanuts. Paying for residential treatment-around 80 to 100k a year would be worth it for the network to earn millions.

Try 200-300k.

Yep. And no insurance company would cover three years of that.

The school system would. Special education kids are placed at residential facilities due to behavior issues and it's paid for by the school district. I suspect that's what happened to Collin, because otherwise I don't know how Kate could have afforded it. Obviously the issues have to be pretty bad to qualify for residential.

You would need a diagnosis to get the services. ADHD alone would never cut it.

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Anonymous wrote:Having had a narcissistic family member in my life, I feel qualified to say it sounds like Stockholm Mady is just repeating what Kate has poured into her ear, and there doesn’t seem to be proof (yet) that any of this (threats, etc) is true.

It's rather infantilizing that you're saying a 22 year old college student can't think for herself.

New poster here. As another person who was raised by a narcissistic parent. My father. I can tell you that it can take years to get out of under the mindset. I've moved an entire continent away from him and just because of the distance was not in close contact with him anymore. It probably still took me about three years before I realized what a narcissist he was. Before that, everything he said, was factual and true And I didn't question it. So yes, it is possible for a 22-year-old to not be able to think differently than her narcissistic parent if she is still embroiled and in close contact with the narcissistic parent.

Anything but accept that Collin may have issues we don't know about and there's more here than meets the eye.

Why are you so intent on making Colin a villain? I was just saying as a fellow child of a narcissist, that it is possible for Maddie, a 22-year-old, to still have a worldview like her mother's because Kate is a narcissist. I Did not mention Colin at all. But you did. Makes me wonder if you have some close ties to this family and are trying to deflect. You seem way too invested in saying Colin is awful and Kate and Maddie are not.

Why are you twisting yourself in a pretzel to pick a side? We're talking about Mady b/c of the claims she made against her brother because wanted to speak up for herself. You're choosing not to believe her because you think she's been brainwashed. That's quite a leap based on your unprofessional opinion about people you've never met. But for Collin, we wouldn't be talking about her at all. Do you normally not believe women?